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Just a simple question ...

If Somalia is an example of a Conk paradise with no government intervention in our lives, is North Korea the mirror image? A Donk paradise where the government feeds, clothes and protects its citizens.

The problem with these hyperbolic statements (i.e. that the ideal Conk or Libertarian society is Somalia) is that there is almost always a reciprocal argument going the other direction.

UNI88 wrote:Just a simple question ...

If Somalia is an example of a Conk paradise with no government intervention in our lives, is North Korea the mirror image? A Donk paradise where the government feeds, clothes and protects its citizens.

The problem with these hyperbolic statements (i.e. that the ideal Conk or Libertarian society is Somalia) is that there is almost always a reciprocal argument going the other direction.

N. Korea is hardly a donk paradise. It's hard to be a hairy armpit occupier in a state that oppresses your first amendment rights,makes you conform, and eliminates the opportunity for you to bitch at someone who's doing better than you are.

Man, there's a big difference between a libertarian "paradise" and outright anarchy. Somalia is the latter. Government by pirates? Hardly anyone's concept of "paradise."

Nor are the NorKors a Donk paradise, if that concept is understood as a workers' state where everyone shares and shares alike. The Monty Python anarcho-syndicalist commune comes to mind. (Cue kalm!) Properly understood, NK is a cruel totalitarian state dominated by one privileged lunatic family and the military.

I guess I wasn't clear enough. While all rational human beings know that Somolia is not a Conk paradise, Donks like to bring it up as an example of a perfect Conk/Libertarian world without government intervention.

dbackjon wrote:You are a **** moron. You really just need to pack up and move to Somalia, because you have no **** clue in that little right-wing pea brain of yours what life would be like in the United States without strong safety and environmental regulation.

kalm wrote:1) A truly free market absent of government intervention does not really exist. Anywhere. The closest we get is Somalia.

houndawg wrote:Too socialist; he needs to shag ass to a place where the free market rules and there is no government interference.

Like Somalia.

dbackjon wrote:I know. Why aren't we more like Somalia?

If Somalia is the example of the end result for a nation without government intervention isn't North Korea the example of a nation with government controlling everything. Obviously no "hairy armpit occupier" wants the country to end up like North Korea but isn't it just as likely an end result? Once the government is done redistributing wealth, protecting the populace from every possible calamity and dictating economic production won't it logically move on to regulating other aspects of society and people's lives. Why does the "hairy armpit occupier" assume that the government will stop growing and regulating when he or she wants it to stop. If it's reasonable to assume that in Conk controlled world we'll end up like Somalia, isn't it just as reasonable to assume that in a Donk controlled world, the byzantine monster will continue to grow until we end up like North Korea?

If we set aside hyperbole for a second, I think Sweden or Norway could be considered donk paradises, with Singapore or HK being the conk counterparts.

Grizalltheway wrote:If we set aside hyperbole for a second, I think Sweden or Norway could be considered donk paradises, with Singapore or HK being the conk counterparts.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Setting aside the hyperbole sucks all of the fun out of the Poly Board.

Ivytalk wrote:Man, there's a big difference between a libertarian "paradise" and outright anarchy. Somalia is the latter. Government by pirates? Hardly anyone's concept of "paradise."

Nor are the NorKors a Donk paradise, if that concept is understood as a workers' state where everyone shares and shares alike. The Monty Python anarcho-syndicalist commune comes to mind. (Cue kalm!) Properly understood, NK is a cruel totalitarian state dominated by one privileged lunatic family and the military.

Sounds like UNI88 is starting to believe the shit Cap'n is spewing...

AZGrizFan wrote:

Ivytalk wrote:Man, there's a big difference between a libertarian "paradise" and outright anarchy. Somalia is the latter. Government by pirates? Hardly anyone's concept of "paradise."

Nor are the NorKors a Donk paradise, if that concept is understood as a workers' state where everyone shares and shares alike. The Monty Python anarcho-syndicalist commune comes to mind. (Cue kalm!) Properly understood, NK is a cruel totalitarian state dominated by one privileged lunatic family and the military.

Sounds like UNI88 is starting to believe the **** Cap'n is spewing...

Did you read my follow up post?

UNI88 wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Sounds like UNI88 is starting to believe the **** Cap'n is spewing...

Did you read my follow up post?

Hey, I agree with you. The natural progression goes both ways...what's good for the goose, etc., etc.

I want the U.S. to be like Somalia just like donks want the U.S. to be like North Korea....

Grizalltheway wrote:If we set aside hyperbole for a second, I think Sweden or Norway could be considered donk paradises, with Singapore or HK being the conk counterparts.

You may be right about the Donk choices. Social benefits out the wazoo, high taxes, and lots of purti wimmin.

Not sure about the Conk choices, now that the Red Chinese have taken over HK, and Singapore will horsewhip you for putting your used chewing gum where it doesn't belong. And then there's the whole drug thing....

Ivytalk wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote:If we set aside hyperbole for a second, I think Sweden or Norway could be considered donk paradises, with Singapore or HK being the conk counterparts.

You may be right about the Donk choices. Social benefits out the wazoo, high taxes, and lots of purti wimmin.

Not sure about the Conk choices, now that the Red Chinese have taken over HK, and Singapore will horsewhip you for putting your used chewing gum where it doesn't belong. And then there's the whole drug thing....

Plenty of social conservatives would be okay with executing drug offenders.

Grizalltheway wrote:

Ivytalk wrote: You may be right about the Donk choices. Social benefits out the wazoo, high taxes, and lots of purti wimmin.

Not sure about the Conk choices, now that the Red Chinese have taken over HK, and Singapore will horsewhip you for putting your used chewing gum where it doesn't belong. And then there's the whole drug thing....

Plenty of social conservatives would be okay with executing drug offenders.

Fuck that. I'll take Estonia any day.

In answer to your question '88...yes. The extreme end of total free market capitalism and socialism leads to either anarchy or totalitarianism. So the answer is somewhere in the middle. But in defense you won't hear an american donk say government is ALWAYS the answer while you hear conks routinely and mindlessly utter the phrase government is THE problem.

Government is a necessary evil. Without government and regulation, the free market would eventually cease to exist and you would have totalitarianism just like NK.

Ivy: 'True freedom is acquired through a mandate from the masses...not some farcical neo-liberal ceremony.

Oh... and I didn't vote for ya'

kalm wrote:In answer to your question '88...yes. The extreme end of total free market capitalism and socialism leads to either anarchy or totalitarianism. So the answer is somewhere in the middle. But in defense you won't hear an american donk say government is ALWAYS the answer while you hear conks routinely and mindlessly utter the phrase government is THE problem.

Government is a necessary evil. Without government and regulation, the free market would eventually cease to exist and you would have totalitarianism just like NK.

Ivy: 'True freedom is acquired through a mandate from the masses...not some farcical neo-liberal ceremony.

Oh... and I didn't vote for ya'

You won't hear Donk pols SAY that, because it's a dead political loser. But they THINK it all the time, and it guides what policies they espouse. Witness Obama.

UNI88 wrote:Just a simple question ...

If Somalia is an example of a Conk paradise with no government intervention in our lives, is North Korea the mirror image? A Donk paradise where the government feeds, clothes and protects its citizens.

The problem with these hyperbolic statements (i.e. that the ideal Conk or Libertarian society is Somalia) is that there is almost always a reciprocal argument going the other direction.

No. North Korea doesn't feed it's citizens. It's a conk paradise too.

Ivytalk wrote:

kalm wrote:In answer to your question '88...yes. The extreme end of total free market capitalism and socialism leads to either anarchy or totalitarianism. So the answer is somewhere in the middle. But in defense you won't hear an american donk say government is ALWAYS the answer while you hear conks routinely and mindlessly utter the phrase government is THE problem.

Government is a necessary evil. Without government and regulation, the free market would eventually cease to exist and you would have totalitarianism just like NK.

Ivy: 'True freedom is acquired through a mandate from the masses...not some farcical neo-liberal ceremony.

Oh... and I didn't vote for ya'

You won't hear Donk pols SAY that, because it's a dead political loser. But they THINK it all the time, and it guides what policies they espouse. Witness Obama.

I know that's what you think.

kalm wrote:

Ivytalk wrote: You won't hear Donk pols SAY that, because it's a dead political loser. But they THINK it all the time, and it guides what policies they espouse. Witness Obama.

I know that's what you think.

What's what I think? Be clear. Like Obummer says: "Let me be clear." You're slipping into your inner houndawg.

Ivytalk wrote:

kalm wrote:
I know that's what you think.

What's what I think? Be clear. Like Obummer says: "Let me be clear." You're slipping into your inner houndawg.

Awwww, I'm going to be an emotional wreck all day now.

Ivytalk wrote:

kalm wrote:
I know that's what you think.

What's what I think? Be clear. Like Obummer says: "Let me be clear." You're slipping into your inner houndawg.

Speaking of "inner" selfs I'm glad you can read minds.

houndawg wrote:

Ivytalk wrote:
What's what I think? Be clear. Like Obummer says: "Let me be clear." You're slipping into your inner houndawg.

Awwww, I'm going to be an emotional wreck all day now.

Dang. As a famous columnist once said about a lousy actress, " her emotions run the gamut from A to B."

Ivytalk wrote:

houndawg wrote:
Awwww, I'm going to be an emotional wreck all day now.

Dang. As a famous columnist once said about a lousy actress, " her emotions run the gamut from A to B."

After such a crushing insult I'll be lucky if they go from A to A.

houndawg wrote:

Ivytalk wrote: Dang. As a famous columnist once said about a lousy actress, " her emotions run the gamut from A to B."

After such a crushing insult I'll be lucky if they go from A to A.

Actually, the quote was by Dorothy Parker about a quite good actress, Katharine Hepburn, but it's still used to describe lousy actresses -- or actors.

Don't be upset. I'm sure you'll be back to your witty old self in no time.

Ivytalk wrote:

houndawg wrote:

After such a crushing insult I'll be lucky if they go from A to A.

Actually, the quote was by Dorothy Parker about a quite good actress, Katharine Hepburn, but it's still used to describe lousy actresses -- or actors.

Don't be upset. I'm sure you'll be back to your witty old self in no time.

I don't know if I can go on.

To the Somalians credit, their economy is supposedly a lot more prosperous than their last regime's economy.

And North Korea is just weird. Socialists/communists will tell you that they aren't really communists/socialists because they still use the "capitalist mode of production." I'm not versed enough in socialist theoretical philosophy to give the full run-down quite yet.

Ivytalk wrote:

houndawg wrote:

After such a crushing insult I'll be lucky if they go from A to A.

Actually, the quote was by Dorothy Parker about a quite good actress, Katharine Hepburn, but it's still used to describe lousy actresses -- or actors.

Don't be upset. I'm sure you'll be back to your witty old self in no time.

Dorothy Parker rocked! Her quips were some of the best.