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Finally someone has decided to use their balls/brains and tax these useless fucks...Good for them. When will we break the Churcher hold here and treat them for what they are, a Multi-Billion a year Business.


Amid Economic Crisis, Spain Ponders Taxing Catholic Church Property
Time.com – Tue, Jul 17, 2012

Although they have rented it out to a restaurant for the past five years, the owners of one building in Aspe have never paid property tax. Nor have they ever paid tax on the apartments that house two of their employees. But that may be about to change. Last week, the city's government voted to partially rescind the exemption that the Catholic Church, landlord of those three properties and another eight more in town, has long enjoyed. And thanks to the crisis that threatens to upend Spain's economy, it's not the only place demanding change.

Three different laws, including a 1979 agreement with the Vatican, exempt the Catholic Church from paying property tax in Spain. The same provision holds for other recognized religions and non-profit organizations like the Red Cross, yet because Catholicism is the dominant religion in Spain, and because the Church's holdings there are so vast (España Laica, a pro-secularism group, estimates that were it not for the exemption, the church would annually owe 2.5 to 3 billion euros in property taxes), critics have long argued that the arrangement is part of the preferential treatment granted the Catholic Church.

http://news.yahoo.com/amid-economic-cri ... 00794.html

polsongrizz wrote:these useless fucks...

Tell that to the 9-10 million folks that receive care at Catholic Charities in the US regardless of their religious background.

89Hen wrote:

polsongrizz wrote:these useless fucks...

Tell that to the 9-10 million folks that receive care at Catholic Charities in the US regardless of their religious background.

Way to jump right on that, I expected nothing more. Do they also pass out rubbers???

My understanding is that churches in the US put their tax exemptions at risk if they engage in political activity. Apart from that, I don't see a groundswell of support in this country for taxing churches.

Spain's fiscal problems go far beyond the relatively small amount of revenue they'd get from taxing the Catholic Church. Anyway, Spain -- like France and Italy, and practically all other Eurozone countries -- is pretty much a secular society now.

polsongrizz wrote:

89Hen wrote: Tell that to the 9-10 million folks that receive care at Catholic Charities in the US regardless of their religious background.

Way to jump right on that, I expected nothing more. Do they also pass out rubbers???

Nothing more or nothing less? I expected nothing less than the birth control question.

89Hen wrote:

polsongrizz wrote: Way to jump right on that, I expected nothing more. Do they also pass out rubbers???

Nothing more or nothing less? I expected nothing less than the birth control question.

Then how about this. How many of those folks are Illegal Aliens. How many of those folks were RAPED by the church, or is that what you meant by "receive care"?

polsongrizz wrote:

89Hen wrote: Nothing more or nothing less? I expected nothing less than the birth control question.

Then how about this. How many of those folks are Illegal Aliens. How many of those folks were RAPED by the church, or is that what you meant by "receive care"?

If I had to guess, I would say quite a few are illegal aliens (do you have something against taking care of a fellow human?) and very few were raped by the church. Any more hyperbole?

Ivytalk wrote:My understanding is that churches in the US put their tax exemptions at risk if they engage in political activity. Apart from that, I don't see a groundswell of support in this country for taxing churches.

Spain's fiscal problems go far beyond the relatively small amount of revenue they'd get from taxing the Catholic Church. Anyway, Spain -- like France and Italy, and practically all other Eurozone countries -- is pretty much a secular society now.

This will mean every church group not just catholics. So are you saying that if one owes a "small amount" they shouldn't pay taxes?

89Hen wrote:

polsongrizz wrote: Then how about this. How many of those folks are Illegal Aliens. How many of those folks were RAPED by the church, or is that what you meant by "receive care"?

If I had to guess, I would say quite a few are illegal aliens (do you have something against taking care of a fellow human?) and very few were raped by the church. Any more hyperbole?

I can't see where any of the above was an exaggeration, in fat it has been born out in lawsuit after lawsuit. Do you have any facts to prove those statements wrong??
As for any help they provide it is miniscule to the amount of $$$$ taken in. How else do you explain priests riding around in Helicopters and Mercedes?

polsongrizz wrote:

89Hen wrote: If I had to guess, I would say quite a few are illegal aliens (do you have something against taking care of a fellow human?) and very few were raped by the church. Any more hyperbole?

I can't see where any of the above was an exaggeration, in fat it has been born out in lawsuit after lawsuit. Do you have any facts to prove those statements wrong??
As for any help they provide it is miniscule to the amount of $$$$ taken in. How else do you explain priests riding around in Helicopters and Mercedes?

Your hatred is blinding you then. 9-10 million served, how many of them were "RAPED by the church"... what's your guess? Half?

Miniscule? Again, don't let your hatred get in the way of reality.

polsongrizz wrote:

Ivytalk wrote:My understanding is that churches in the US put their tax exemptions at risk if they engage in political activity. Apart from that, I don't see a groundswell of support in this country for taxing churches.

Spain's fiscal problems go far beyond the relatively small amount of revenue they'd get from taxing the Catholic Church. Anyway, Spain -- like France and Italy, and practically all other Eurozone countries -- is pretty much a secular society now.

This will mean every church group not just catholics. So are you saying that if one owes a "small amount" they shouldn't pay taxes?

I'm saying that churches shouldn't be taxed at all unless they go off the reservation politically. If you read the article in your link, Spain only plans to tax church properties that are "not strictly dedicated to religious practice or to social services." All others will be exempt.

So, pols, do you advocate taxing church buildings that are solely used for religious practice?

Kind of an apples to oranges comparison when talking about the Catholic Church in Spain (tons of land holdings) and the Church in America (much smaller land holding as a percentage of the country). Besides, and if I read the excerpt correctly, what they're talking about taxing is not all Church property but merely the property they lease out or rent out to other people who then use it for completely non-Church related activities (the article references they were leasing space to a restaurant). I don't think you'd get any argument from most people that property like that, property that is used for something not related to religion or religious education or religion related charity outreach, should be taxed as property. But you'll never convince most people to start taxing the property that is used for religion, religous education, or religious related charity outreach.

Ivytalk wrote:

polsongrizz wrote: This will mean every church group not just catholics. So are you saying that if one owes a "small amount" they shouldn't pay taxes?

I'm saying that churches shouldn't be taxed at all unless they go off the reservation politically. If you read the article in your link, Spain only plans to tax church properties that are "not strictly dedicated to religious practice or to social services." All others will be exempt.

So, pols, do you advocate taxing church buildings that are solely used for religious practice?

I don't think there is a church in the whole nation that is used solely for religious practice, do you? I see numerous churches renting out their space constantly, those should be taxed. IF a church is used only for its intended purpose then no I don't think so. That is hardly the case anymore. And as you mentioned above, most are now giving political advice to their members which should void any and all tax exempt status they had.

polsongrizz wrote:

Ivytalk wrote: I'm saying that churches shouldn't be taxed at all unless they go off the reservation politically. If you read the article in your link, Spain only plans to tax church properties that are "not strictly dedicated to religious practice or to social services." All others will be exempt.

So, pols, do you advocate taxing church buildings that are solely used for religious practice?

I don't think there is a church in the whole nation that is used solely for religious practice, do you? I see numerous churches renting out their space constantly, those should be taxed. IF a church is used only for its intended purpose then no I don't think so. That is hardly the case anymore. And as you mentioned above, most are now giving political advice to their members which should void any and all tax exempt status they had.

I never said "most." My own main-line Protestant parish building is used only for religious practice and by a few social services groups, like Alcoholics Anonymous and Habitat for Humanity. No political groups. So do you think we should be taxed and, if so, why?

polsongrizz wrote:And as you mentioned above, most are now giving political advice to their members which should void any and all tax exempt status they had.

So is it just groups with which you don't agree that should lose it?

http://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/ ... us-760.htm

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/campaigns/actions/

http://www.nrapvf.org/

Ivytalk wrote:

polsongrizz wrote: I don't think there is a church in the whole nation that is used solely for religious practice, do you? I see numerous churches renting out their space constantly, those should be taxed. IF a church is used only for its intended purpose then no I don't think so. That is hardly the case anymore. And as you mentioned above, most are now giving political advice to their members which should void any and all tax exempt status they had.

I never said "most." My own main-line Protestant parish building is used only for religious practice and by a few social services groups, like Alcoholics Anonymous and Habitat for Humanity. No political groups. So do you think we should be taxed and, if so, why?

I agree - my Catholic parish only uses its buildings (church, rectory, and school) for it's own purposes and groups and does not rent to outsiders at all. Not sure how/why that would be taxed now. And although I dislike when it comes up in homilies or literature, the "political advice" is always about an issue and the church's position on those issues - it's never a specific direction to vote for a particular candidate or party so I don't see how that would constitute political speech and risk losing religious status.

Like I said, if any church was taking it's property and renting/leasing it to a wholly non-religious group or people and making a profit off of that rent/lease then yes, that property should be taxed for the proportion of time that it was being used that way. I guess I just don't see that happen a lot, for any denominational group, around me. Might be different in different parts of the country and in the one case cited, I'm sure it happens a lot in other countries. I'm all for taxing the property in those cases.

I agree. A church should never be taxed on income it generates from nonpolitical 501(c)(3) tenants.

Ivytalk wrote:

polsongrizz wrote: I don't think there is a church in the whole nation that is used solely for religious practice, do you? I see numerous churches renting out their space constantly, those should be taxed. IF a church is used only for its intended purpose then no I don't think so. That is hardly the case anymore. And as you mentioned above, most are now giving political advice to their members which should void any and all tax exempt status they had.

I never said "most." My own main-line Protestant parish building is used only for religious practice and by a few social services groups, like Alcoholics Anonymous and Habitat for Humanity. No political groups. So do you think we should be taxed and, if so, why?

If those groups are charged a fee then yes you should be. I know for a fact in Missoula of two churches that let these exact type of groups use their basements. They are charged for this and they should be taxed. I am sure there are more.

GannonFan wrote:

Ivytalk wrote: I never said "most." My own main-line Protestant parish building is used only for religious practice and by a few social services groups, like Alcoholics Anonymous and Habitat for Humanity. No political groups. So do you think we should be taxed and, if so, why?

I agree - my Catholic parish only uses its buildings (church, rectory, and school) for it's own purposes and groups and does not rent to outsiders at all. Not sure how/why that would be taxed now. And although I dislike when it comes up in homilies or literature, the "political advice" is always about an issue and the church's position on those issues - it's never a specific direction to vote for a particular candidate or party so I don't see how that would constitute political speech and risk losing religious status.

Like I said, if any church was taking it's property and renting/leasing it to a wholly non-religious group or people and making a profit off of that rent/lease then yes, that property should be taxed for the proportion of time that it was being used that way. I guess I just don't see that happen a lot, for any denominational group, around me. Might be different in different parts of the country and in the one case cited, I'm sure it happens a lot in other countries. I'm all for taxing the property in those cases.

This makes sense to me. Buildings used primarily for religious purposes should not be taxed regardless of whether the entity occasionally rents them out to another group or plays bingo or CYO type basketball in the gym. Now if they rent a space to a restaurant or a rent-paying tenant, than that property and income should be taxable as unrelated business income.

polsongrizz wrote:

Ivytalk wrote: I never said "most." My own main-line Protestant parish building is used only for religious practice and by a few social services groups, like Alcoholics Anonymous and Habitat for Humanity. No political groups. So do you think we should be taxed and, if so, why?

If those groups are charged a fee then yes you should be. I know for a fact in Missoula of two churches that let these exact type of groups use their basements. They are charged for this and they should be taxed. I am sure there are more.

We'll just have to disagree on this policy point. Whatever the tax laws say, they say. I'm not even sure my church assesses a fee to all of the local nonprofits that use it on occasion.

Growing up, there was a Baptist Church used as a polling location. Actually, it still is I believe. Should this church pay taxes?


Just checked the polling locations in Charleston County. They include a Catholic Church, 2 Baptist churches, a Presbyterian church, SeaCoast(that strange ass cult) and the JCC.

polsongrizz wrote:

Ivytalk wrote: I never said "most." My own main-line Protestant parish building is used only for religious practice and by a few social services groups, like Alcoholics Anonymous and Habitat for Humanity. No political groups. So do you think we should be taxed and, if so, why?

If those groups are charged a fee then yes you should be. I know for a fact in Missoula of two churches that let these exact type of groups use their basements. They are charged for this and they should be taxed. I am sure there are more.

How far do you take this? Local community colleges do the same things with their meeting space. Should they be taxed?

Of all the churches in the US - the Catholic Church would probably be the least effected. Yes, it's the largest denomination in the country but it has by far the deepest pockets, even after D1B and all the abused have had settled civil actions.

89Hen wrote:

polsongrizz wrote:And as you mentioned above, most are now giving political advice to their members which should void any and all tax exempt status they had.

So is it just groups with which you don't agree that should lose it?

http://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/ ... us-760.htm

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/campaigns/actions/

http://www.nrapvf.org/

Jesus, pols...you might wanna sit a few plays out.

AZGrizFan wrote:Jesus, pols...you might wanna sit a few plays out.

I don't think this thread turned out quite like he hoped.