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Where is T-man
He and I have been arguing this for 7 years now - I wan't gas to hit 8 bucks a gallon - come on baby GO..!!!

None of that makes any sense, it is all lies I tell you, all lies. Get a job you commie bastard.

So you want to subsidize supply without addressing demand? Not a great idea. Don't they teach econ at Harvard? I'm pretty sure they do, because I read a couple of Harvard econ profs' blogs every day.

Once they find a better way to charge us monthly for solar, the subsidies will come. Obama might mention alternative energy every once in a while to appease the sheeple, but he is going to follow in the footsteps of Bushy and Billy and he is not going to let big oil down.

Chizzang wrote:Where is T-man
He and I have been arguing this for 7 years now - I wan't gas to hit 8 bucks a gallon - come on baby GO..!!!

I hope that little chart was posted with tongue firmly planted in cheek since "Big Oil", in fact, doesn't receive one thin dime in subsidies from the federal government.

EDIT:
Chizz, you are aware that countless solar companies in Germany have gone bankrupt, aren't you?

Bankruptcies have German solar industry on the ropes

"The German solar industry is at a turning point. The bankruptcy of Q-Cells this week shows that the days of German solar cell production are numbered. Asian competitors took the lead years ago, and German government subsidies were part of the problem."

The image you posted did get one thing right, Germany does have some "killer" solar subsidies.

Avg residential rate in the US - 11.8 cents/kwh
Avg rate in Germany - 36.48 cents/kwh

Avg residential use in the USA is about 12,000 kwh/year

12,000 x 0.118 = $1,416
12,000 x 0.3648 = $4,377.60
Difference $2,961.60

Looks like I'm a lot better off paying the supposed fossil fuel subsidy.

When you calculate the cost of solar make sure you include the cost of the fossil fuel plants that will have to be constructed to back up the solar.

I don't find much to admire about Germany these days, except for Angela Merkel's brass balls and that whole "blut und eisen" thing.

Solar power is everywhere in Germany. Down to the little farms, as you exit Munich. Each house has panels on the roof, even moreso in the country side. Driving from Germany to France, you'll drive for miles passing huge Wind Turbine fields. They obviously know something we don't (or that we ignore). Nonetheless, fossil fuels are not sustainable. Solar Energy is (until the sun engulfs us).

Ibanez wrote:Solar power is everywhere in Germany. Down to the little farms, as you exit Munich. Each house has panels on the roof, even moreso in the country side. Driving from Germany to France, you'll drive for miles passing huge Wind Turbine fields. They obviously know something we don't (or that we ignore). Nonetheless, fossil fuels are not sustainable. Solar Energy is (until the sun engulfs us).

It's not very sustainable if you're in Alaska in the winter.

Anyway, there is enough fossil fuel in the US alone to sustain this country for 200 more years. Maybe by then solar, wind, and biofuels will be more efficient and affordable.

CitadelGrad wrote:So you want to subsidize supply without addressing demand? Not a great idea. Don't they teach econ at Harvard? I'm pretty sure they do, because I read a couple of Harvard econ profs' blogs every day.

You don't think the supply of oil has been subsidized?

This whole thread is a crock. The federal govt hasn't paid the oil companies 72 billion over 5 years, or $521 per taxpayer.

Failing to confiscate more from the oil companies the libs will try to twist as govt spending.

HI54UNI wrote:Avg residential rate in the US - 11.8 cents/kwh
Avg rate in Germany - 36.48 cents/kwh

Avg residential use in the USA is about 12,000 kwh/year

12,000 x 0.118 = $1,416
12,000 x 0.3648 = $4,377.60
Difference $2,961.60

Looks like I'm a lot better off paying the supposed fossil fuel subsidy.

Yep- that shows that wanting to be like Germany is pretty retarded.

Looks like cleats will be hanging out over at AGS for a couple weeks while this thread is forgotten.

Baldy wrote:

Ibanez wrote:Solar power is everywhere in Germany. Down to the little farms, as you exit Munich. Each house has panels on the roof, even moreso in the country side. Driving from Germany to France, you'll drive for miles passing huge Wind Turbine fields. They obviously know something we don't (or that we ignore). Nonetheless, fossil fuels are not sustainable. Solar Energy is (until the sun engulfs us).

It's not very sustainable if you're in Alaska in the winter.

Anyway, there is enough fossil fuel in the US alone to sustain this country for 200 more years. Maybe by then solar, wind, and biofuels will be more efficient and affordable.

If you are a country or state that must import fuel (Japan, USA, Germany, Hawai'i) the savings could be tremendous if you were able to utilize solar power. Alaskans could benefit from cheaper renewable energy, especially since they spend the most on energy than any other state. Wyoming comes in number 2. Converesly, Wyoming uses the most energy with Alaska right behind them.

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelli ... h-pv/16354" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Germany has long been the world leader in producing solar electricity, in large measure because over a decade ago it implemented “feed in tariffs” (FiTs) that essentially pay people and businesses for generating solar.

Germany has been cutting those tariffs steadily, and at an accelerating pace as plunging prices of solar panels makes them less necessary. The FiTs have encouraged solar uptake and have led to lower prices through manufacturing economies of scale. On top of that, Chinese manufacturers have pushed prices down.

German’s Parliament recently sped up FiT cuts in part because the subsidy has led to higher electricity prices

No system is perfect and as of yet, the steady baseload that nuclear provides isn't seen in solar power. Everything has it's pros and cons.

I will give the US credit, according to the Dept. of Energy, we are reducing our dependence on foreign oil.
http://energy.gov/articles/our-dependen ... -declining" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Feed in tariffs are a subsidy to the rich on the backs of the poor.

andy7171 wrote:Looks like cleats will be hanging out over at AGS for a couple weeks while this thread is forgotten.

Ibanez wrote:

Baldy wrote:It's not very sustainable if you're in Alaska in the winter.

Anyway, there is enough fossil fuel in the US alone to sustain this country for 200 more years. Maybe by then solar, wind, and biofuels will be more efficient and affordable.

If you are a country or state that must import fuel (Japan, USA, Germany, Hawai'i) the savings could be tremendous if you were able to utilize solar power. Alaskans could benefit from cheaper renewable energy, especially since they spend the most on energy than any other state. Wyoming comes in number 2. Converesly, Wyoming uses the most energy with Alaska right behind them.

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelli ... h-pv/16354" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Germany has long been the world leader in producing solar electricity, in large measure because over a decade ago it implemented “feed in tariffs” (FiTs) that essentially pay people and businesses for generating solar.

Germany has been cutting those tariffs steadily, and at an accelerating pace as plunging prices of solar panels makes them less necessary. The FiTs have encouraged solar uptake and have led to lower prices through manufacturing economies of scale. On top of that, Chinese manufacturers have pushed prices down.

German’s Parliament recently sped up FiT cuts in part because the subsidy has led to higher electricity prices

No system is perfect and as of yet, the steady baseload that nuclear provides isn't seen in solar power. Everything has it's pros and cons.

I will give the US credit, according to the Dept. of Energy, we are reducing our dependence on foreign oil.
http://energy.gov/articles/our-dependen ... -declining" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think there's a direct correlation to the state of the economy in your chart. Folks are driving less, lower demand for gasoline overall, and we're using a higher percentage of US capacity to fill the needs of those who are driving.

ASUG8 wrote:

Ibanez wrote:
If you are a country or state that must import fuel (Japan, USA, Germany, Hawai'i) the savings could be tremendous if you were able to utilize solar power. Alaskans could benefit from cheaper renewable energy, especially since they spend the most on energy than any other state. Wyoming comes in number 2. Converesly, Wyoming uses the most energy with Alaska right behind them.

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelli ... h-pv/16354" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No system is perfect and as of yet, the steady baseload that nuclear provides isn't seen in solar power. Everything has it's pros and cons.

I will give the US credit, according to the Dept. of Energy, we are reducing our dependence on foreign oil.
http://energy.gov/articles/our-dependen ... -declining" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think there's a direct correlation to the state of the economy in your chart. Folks are driving less, lower demand for gasoline overall, and we're using a higher percentage of US capacity to fill the needs of those who are driving.

Don't forget about tougher fuel economy standards imposed by the evil federal government.

Bump

Saw Chizz was in the forum and didn't want him to forget about this one.

HI54UNI wrote:Bump

Saw Chizz was in the forum and didn't want him to forget about this one.

Why are you and others ignoring the article Ibanez posted? Yes, Germany is cutting solar subsidies, but it's not because the industry is failing, like you're trying to portray.

Grizalltheway wrote:

HI54UNI wrote:Bump

Saw Chizz was in the forum and didn't want him to forget about this one.

Why are you and others ignoring the article Ibanez posted? Yes, Germany is cutting solar subsidies, but it's not because the industry is failing, like you're trying to portray.

Actually, the German solar industry has collapsed to the point where many are calling for the industry to be nationalized before it totally disappears.

Baldy wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote:
Why are you and others ignoring the article Ibanez posted? Yes, Germany is cutting solar subsidies, but it's not because the industry is failing, like you're trying to portray.

Actually, the German solar industry has collapsed to the point where many are calling for the industry to be nationalized before it totally disappears.

National Solarism? Only in Germany.

Baldy wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote:
Why are you and others ignoring the article Ibanez posted? Yes, Germany is cutting solar subsidies, but it's not because the industry is failing, like you're trying to portray.

Actually, the German solar industry has collapsed to the point where many are calling for the industry to be nationalized before it totally disappears.

let's see some sources.


Ha. Good one.

BlueHen86 wrote:

Baldy wrote:
Actually, the German solar industry has collapsed to the point where many are calling for the industry to be nationalized before it totally disappears.

National Solarism? Only in Germany.

Jawohl! Tomorrow belongs to sun!