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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-2 ... meter.html

Some leaders of U.S. labor unions, who decry the widening differences between the salaries of corporate chief executive officers and their workers, earn compensation that also places them in the top 1 percent.

The BGOV Barometer shows the heads of the top 10 U.S. labor unions took home average salary and other compensation of $394,925 last year, according to union reports filed with the U.S. Labor Department. Taxpayers in the top 1 percent had adjusted gross income higher than $343,927, according to IRS statistics published in 2011.

Just go to http://www.unionfacts.com and you can see what the big shots make at every union. I can't believe some people keep paying union dues when you look at what the union reps make vs. the union worker.

HI54UNI wrote:Just go to http://www.unionfacts.com and you can see what the big shots make at every union. I can't believe some people keep paying union dues when you look at what the union reps make vs. the union worker.

Unions are slowly going away. They are no longer needed in this country. Like the NAACP, they have out lived their usefullness.

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/2 ... 29185/1010" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Boeing employees, non union employees. I have a few friends there and they tell me how the unions have been trying to strong arm people since Day 1.

Ambitious union leaders who through their hard work, motivation, and personal achievement should not be allowed to compete in a relatively free labor market. They should be forced to make what the workers they represent make.

Ibanez wrote:

HI54UNI wrote:Just go to http://www.unionfacts.com and you can see what the big shots make at every union. I can't believe some people keep paying union dues when you look at what the union reps make vs. the union worker.

Unions are slowly going away. They are no longer needed in this country. Like the NAACP, they have out lived their usefullness.

The real problem is with public sector unions, which effectively own and elect the politicians who write their contracts and raise taxes to fund those contracts. It's a never-ending cycle of avarice.

Ivytalk wrote:

Ibanez wrote: Unions are slowly going away. They are no longer needed in this country. Like the NAACP, they have out lived their usefullness.

The real problem is with public sector unions, which effectively own and elect the politicians who write their contracts and raise taxes to fund those contracts. It's a never-ending cycle of avarice.

Which is no different from business organizations that do the same. See ALEC.

kalm wrote:

Ivytalk wrote: The real problem is with public sector unions, which effectively own and elect the politicians who write their contracts and raise taxes to fund those contracts. It's a never-ending cycle of avarice.

Which is no different from business organizations that do the same. See ALEC.

The order of magnitude of corruption far favors the teachers, SEIU, AFSCME, etc.

kalm wrote:

Ivytalk wrote: The real problem is with public sector unions, which effectively own and elect the politicians who write their contracts and raise taxes to fund those contracts. It's a never-ending cycle of avarice.

Which is no different from business organizations that do the same. See ALEC.

Corporations have the power to levy taxes? Who knew?

CitadelGrad wrote:

kalm wrote:
Which is no different from business organizations that do the same. See ALEC.

Corporations have the power to levy taxes? Who knew?

Don't stop him now, Graddie, he's on a roll.

AZGrizFan wrote:

CitadelGrad wrote:
Corporations have the power to levy taxes? Who knew?

Don't stop him now, Graddie, he's on a roll.

Unions have the power to levy taxes? Who knew?

kalm wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Don't stop him now, Graddie, he's on a roll.

Unions have the power to levy taxes? Who knew?

Just the power to force memberships and dues. Not that much of a difference.

Baldy wrote:

kalm wrote:
Unions have the power to levy taxes? Who knew?

Just the power to force memberships and dues. Not that much of a difference.

Well I've never belonged to a union and now I'm the evil management aka "the man" turning down the screws on the socialist workers, but I have to ask, and please forgive my ignorance on the matter, but is anyone forced to work at a unionized business? Is a union not a democracy? Does a union have the power to levy taxes?

kalm wrote:

Baldy wrote: Just the power to force memberships and dues. Not that much of a difference.

Well I've never belonged to a union and now I'm the evil management aka "the man" turning down the screws on the socialist workers, but I have to ask, and please forgive my ignorance on the matter, but is anyone forced to work at a unionized business? Is a union not a democracy? Does a union have the power to levy taxes?

Not really forced, but if the state you live in is at least a right-to-work state, you have a fighting chance of avoiding the damn things. Montana is not a RTW state but it should be. If you won't want to move in Montana and the good jobs are in a union shop, then you are kind of forced to work in one.

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:

kalm wrote:
Well I've never belonged to a union and now I'm the evil management aka "the man" turning down the screws on the socialist workers, but I have to ask, and please forgive my ignorance on the matter, but is anyone forced to work at a unionized business? Is a union not a democracy? Does a union have the power to levy taxes?

Not really forced, but if the state you live in is at least a right-to-work state, you have a fighting chance of avoiding the damn things. Montana is not a RTW state but it should be. If you won't want to move in Montana and the good jobs are in a union shop, then you are kind of forced to work in one.

I get that, and I'm not really all that pro-union. I like the notion that an employer owes you nothing more than a pay check, and you are free to leave at any time. But aren't unions simply a form of democracy in the work place? Shouldn't workers be free to negotiate as a group?

Freedom and democracy seem like nice concepts.

kalm wrote:

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:
Not really forced, but if the state you live in is at least a right-to-work state, you have a fighting chance of avoiding the damn things. Montana is not a RTW state but it should be. If you won't want to move in Montana and the good jobs are in a union shop, then you are kind of forced to work in one.

I get that, and I'm not really all that pro-union. I like the notion that an employer owes you nothing more than a pay check, and you are free to leave at any time. But aren't unions simply a form of democracy in the work place? Shouldn't workers be free to negotiate as a group?

Freedom and democracy seem like nice concepts.

That all depends. If workers at a particular business want to organize, good for them. The problem is for the workers at that business who don't want to become union members and be forced to pay union dues. There is nothing free or democratic about that.

Baldy wrote:

kalm wrote:
I get that, and I'm not really all that pro-union. I like the notion that an employer owes you nothing more than a pay check, and you are free to leave at any time. But aren't unions simply a form of democracy in the work place? Shouldn't workers be free to negotiate as a group?

Freedom and democracy seem like nice concepts.

That all depends. If workers at a particular business want to organize, good for them. The problem is for the workers at that business who don't want to become union members and be forced to pay union dues. There is nothing free or democratic about that.

They are a victim of democracy and free not to work there. But again, I get your point.

kalm wrote:

Baldy wrote:
That all depends. If workers at a particular business want to organize, good for them. The problem is for the workers at that business who don't want to become union members and be forced to pay union dues. There is nothing free or democratic about that.

They are a victim of democracy and free not to work there. But again, I get your point.

No, they aren't victims of democracy. They are victims of government-sanctioned extortionists.

CitadelGrad wrote:

kalm wrote:
They are a victim of democracy and free not to work there. But again, I get your point.

No, they aren't victims of democracy. They are victims of government-sanctioned extortionists.

Government sanctions private sector extortion too.

kalm wrote:

Baldy wrote:
That all depends. If workers at a particular business want to organize, good for them. The problem is for the workers at that business who don't want to become union members and be forced to pay union dues. There is nothing free or democratic about that.

They are a victim of democracy and free not to work there. But again, I get your point.

The minority are always victims of democracy which is why the founders despised it so much.

Baldy wrote:

kalm wrote:
They are a victim of democracy and free not to work there. But again, I get your point.

The minority are always victims of democracy which is why the founders despised it so much.

Well this is somewhat true:

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
- Winston Churchill

Baldy wrote:

kalm wrote:
I get that, and I'm not really all that pro-union. I like the notion that an employer owes you nothing more than a pay check, and you are free to leave at any time. But aren't unions simply a form of democracy in the work place? Shouldn't workers be free to negotiate as a group?

Freedom and democracy seem like nice concepts.

That all depends. If workers at a particular business want to organize, good for them. The problem is for the workers at that business who don't want to become union members and be forced to pay union dues. There is nothing free or democratic about that.

Depends on the State as well. In NC (and Georgia) you can work in a union shop and not be a union member or pay dues.

kalm wrote:

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:
Not really forced, but if the state you live in is at least a right-to-work state, you have a fighting chance of avoiding the damn things. Montana is not a RTW state but it should be. If you won't want to move in Montana and the good jobs are in a union shop, then you are kind of forced to work in one.

I get that, and I'm not really all that pro-union. I like the notion that an employer owes you nothing more than a pay check, and you are free to leave at any time. But aren't unions simply a form of democracy in the work place? Shouldn't workers be free to negotiate as a group?

Freedom and democracy seem like nice concepts.

Unions may seem like a form of democracy, but it's really a dictatorship by a few.

kalm wrote:

Baldy wrote:
The minority are always victims of democracy which is why the founders despised it so much.

Well this is somewhat true:

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
- Winston Churchill

I'd rather take this guy's word.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
--Benjamin Franklin

Baldy wrote:

kalm wrote:
Well this is somewhat true:

I'd rather take this guy's word.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
--Benjamin Franklin

Nice quotes ya'll!