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Nontheistic service members serve honorably throughout the world -- always have; always will. However, nontheists are the last unprotected minority. The nontheistic, whether an atheist, humanist, agnostic, freethinker, or other secular minority, have a strong community. MAAF provides geographically dispersed service members with information, resources, and contacts. MAAF provides information about nontheistic services members to other organizations as well as the media.



http://www.militaryatheists.org/spirituality.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A new dimension of character and leadership development has made strong advances in the military in the last few years - "Spirituality." The Army's new Global Assessment Test is part of Comprehensive Soldier Fitness, a $50 million program focused on five dimensions - physical, emotional, social, spiritual, and family. Those who score low on the assessment are referred to counseling by the test results. The Ft Hood Spiritual Fitness Center is a cutting-edge facility that explains, "Physical (Body), Mental (Mind), and Spiritual (Soul)," with its focus being on "spiritual needs." This term "Spirituality" calls immediately to mind supernatural "spirits" and religious piety. On the surface, there is concern that the military is officially endorsing and even requiring a supernatural or traditional religious viewpoint.

MAAF would hope that by "spirituality," the military might mean something like character, resilience, or steadfastness. This hope is encouraged by much of the documentation and purposes of the same "spirituality" programs. It makes perfect sense that the military would want to encourage and develop a soldier's ability to hold strongly to values in the face of the stresses of combat, and to build values that sustain soldiers. Knowing the right thing is not the same thing as doing the right thing. Service members benefit from a strong foundation of personal values upon which to build the values of the profession of arms. The stresses of combat take a greater toll if service members don't have some internal peace and personal understanding to make sense of the world. A connection to a supportive community of like-minded individuals enhances the benefits above. These secular benefits do make sense, but they are different than prayer, energy, or other things generally associated with "spirituality."

MAAF provides a conduit to help nontheistic service members to build character and values. Our partner organizations in atheism and secular humanism have real, positive values. Just as this new dimension of "spirituality" encourages Christians to go to church, it should encourage nontheists to participate in their communities. This cannot work if nontheist communities and ideas are excluded from the outset. Nontheists cannot be included if chaplains and other leaders are uneducated or hostile to nontheism. Through chaplain outreach, MAAF book list, and other areas, MAAF provides the thought leadership to ensure all of the military team has support. As you can see below, several issues have arisen with the "spirituality" training. MAAF has reached out in many cases, and hopes the military will reach out to us to ensure the nontheist perspective is represented prior to the publication of new doctrine and training.


There are no "Gods" in foxholes!

Cap'n Cat wrote: There are no "Gods" in foxholes!

Until the mortars start droppin' in.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote: There are no "Gods" in foxholes!

Until the mortars start droppin' in.

You're right, Z. In your world.

Meh. Sound like a bunch of pansies to me.

I grew up not going to church, but I've always considered myself a Christian. I had no idea what to list for religion when I entered the military, so I just said "Methodist" for my dog tags (I have since been baptized Lutheran). I contemplated "Quaker", but this had its own complications with C.O. status. I had a fellow recruit at Parris Island that had "Agnostic" on his dog tags. No DI ever called him out on it, nor did he ever receive any sort of flack for it. Honestly, nobody would ever care in the military, IMHO.

On a side note, Sundays at Parris Island, mornings anyway, were one of the few times that you weren't involved, balls to the wall, in some sort of activity. You could either attend the religious service at the chapel, or stay in the squad bay and shine your boots and iron your uniforms. Mr. Agnostic used to attend the Protestant service with me just to get out of the f'ing squad bay. We'd hum along with all the songs and make a sort of mockery of the whole thing. The chapel was DI-free, so it was a nice stress-free zone.

93henfan wrote:Meh. Sound like a bunch of pansies to me.

I grew up not going to church, but I've always considered myself a Christian. I had no idea what to list for religion when I entered the military, so I just said "Methodist" for my dog tags (I have since been baptized Lutheran). I contemplated "Quaker", but this had its own complications with C.O. status. I had a fellow recruit at Parris Island that had "Agnostic" on his dog tags. No DI ever called him out on it, nor did he ever receive any sort of flack for it. Honestly, nobody would ever care in the military, IMHO.

On a side note, Sundays at Parris Island, mornings anyway, were one of the few times that you weren't involved, balls to the wall, in some sort of activity. You could either attend the religious service at the chapel, or stay in the squad bay and shine your boots and iron your uniforms. Mr. Agnostic used to attend the Protestant service with me just to get out of the f'ing squad bay. We'd hum along with all the songs and make a sort of mockery of the whole thing. The chapel was DI-free, so it was a nice stress-free zone.

Except those behind forcing Christianity on people.

youngterrier wrote:http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lv1ij ... o1_500.jpg

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyzki ... o1_500.jpg

Um, young man. Large difference between "militant" and "military".

Cap'n Cat wrote:

93henfan wrote:Meh. Sound like a bunch of pansies to me.

I grew up not going to church, but I've always considered myself a Christian. I had no idea what to list for religion when I entered the military, so I just said "Methodist" for my dog tags (I have since been baptized Lutheran). I contemplated "Quaker", but this had its own complications with C.O. status. I had a fellow recruit at Parris Island that had "Agnostic" on his dog tags. No DI ever called him out on it, nor did he ever receive any sort of flack for it. Honestly, nobody would ever care in the military, IMHO.

On a side note, Sundays at Parris Island, mornings anyway, were one of the few times that you weren't involved, balls to the wall, in some sort of activity. You could either attend the religious service at the chapel, or stay in the squad bay and shine your boots and iron your uniforms. Mr. Agnostic used to attend the Protestant service with me just to get out of the f'ing squad bay. We'd hum along with all the songs and make a sort of mockery of the whole thing. The chapel was DI-free, so it was a nice stress-free zone.

Except those behind forcing Christianity on people.

I know you're fishing for Republicans here, but can you give specific examples of when Christianity was forced on someone in the military in say, oh, the last 20 years.

Read, son.

http://rockbeyondbelief.com/2011/01/03/ ... -punished/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cap'n Cat wrote:



Read, son.

http://rockbeyondbelief.com/2011/01/03/ ... -punished/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you not find it somewhat ironic that these "foxhole atheists" are banding together to impart their beliefs on others? Seems counter to the live and let live mantra I've always tried to follow.

93henfan wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:



Read, son.

http://rockbeyondbelief.com/2011/01/03/ ... -punished/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you not find it somewhat ironic that these "foxhole atheists" are banding together to impart their beliefs on others? Seems counter to the live and let live mantra I've always tried to follow.

Ah, but they're not, little brother. Read and think. They just want to be recognized and have the right to dissent.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am the baddest mother fucker in the God damn valley.

Sgt. Siek - Jarhead

Cap'n Cat wrote:They just want to be recognized and have the right to dissent.

Recognized? There isn't any sort of recognition based on religion (or the lack thereof) in the military. There is no Catholic of the month or Lutheran of the month medal. Should there be an Atheist of the month medal?

As far as right to dissent, they have it. Dissent all you want. Just don't do it in a way that hurts morale or unit readiness. Then you're a detriment and should be discharged, the same as anyone else who hurts unit cohesion.

93henfan wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:They just want to be recognized and have the right to dissent.

Recognized? There isn't any sort of recognition based on religion (or the lack thereof) in the military. There is no Catholic of the month or Lutheran of the month medal. Should there be an Atheist of the month medal?

As far as right to dissent, they have it. Dissent all you want. Just don't do it in a way that hurts morale or unit readiness. Then you're a detriment and should be discharged, the same as anyone else who hurts unit cohesion.

Poor kid. You ASSume they are doing as you illustrate. Bad reaches.

Let love reign.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

93henfan wrote:
Recognized? There isn't any sort of recognition based on religion (or the lack thereof) in the military. There is no Catholic of the month or Lutheran of the month medal. Should there be an Atheist of the month medal?

As far as right to dissent, they have it. Dissent all you want. Just don't do it in a way that hurts morale or unit readiness. Then you're a detriment and should be discharged, the same as anyone else who hurts unit cohesion.

Poor kid. You ASSume they are doing as you illustrate. Bad reaches.

Let love reign.

That's all you could come up with?

I declare this thread closed/

93henfan wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:

Poor kid. You ASSume they are doing as you illustrate. Bad reaches.

Let love reign.

That's all you could come up with?

I declare this thread closed/

I declare you a "no mind". You haven't the capacity for concepts, boy. Everything in your world is superficial and obvious.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

93henfan wrote:
That's all you could come up with?

I declare this thread closed/

I declare you a "no mind". You haven't the capacity for concepts, boy. Everything in your world is superficial and obvious.

OK.

Can we close it now? /

93henfan wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:

I declare you a "no mind". You haven't the capacity for concepts, boy. Everything in your world is superficial and obvious.

OK.

Can we close it now? /

No, there may be some people with real grey matter who want to comment. You can sit this one out:

93's Playpen

Cap'n Cat wrote:

93henfan wrote:
OK.

Can we close it now? /

No, there may be some people with real grey matter who want to comment. You can sit this one out:

93's Playpen

Yes. Hopefully more people who have never served in the military and don't really have any concept of what it's actually like. That should enrich things.

93henfan wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:
No, there may be some people with real grey matter who want to comment. You can sit this one out:

93's Playpen

Yes. Hopefully more people who have never served in the military and don't really have any concept of what it's actually like. That should enrich things.

Fan,
I hear Patrick Starr is holding out for more money next season. Or you with him or Mr. Krabs?

I think it's great that there are atheists in the military. I think they should all identify themselves, and then we should assign them all to combat zones in Afghanistan or other front line combat zones.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

93henfan wrote:
Yes. Hopefully more people who have never served in the military and don't really have any concept of what it's actually like. That should enrich things.

Fan,
I hear Patrick Starr is holding out for more money next season. Or you with him or Mr. Krabs?

Those must be SpongeBob characters. I am very thankful my boys never took a liking to SpongeBob. They do, however, really like Yo Gabba Gabba, so if you want to talk about Robie or Plex, I'm game.

93henfan wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:
No, there may be some people with real grey matter who want to comment. You can sit this one out:

93's Playpen

Yes. Hopefully more people who have never served in the military and don't really have any concept of what it's actually like. That should enrich things.

Didn't stop Obama from chiming in about what it too to be a politician.

Meh, this is a non-issue, really. I've been active duty military for the past 15 years......never had religion "forced" onto me. To be honest, no one really cares that much wht your personal beliefs are as long as they don't interfere with your performance.


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EWURanger wrote:Meh, this is a non-issue, really. I've been active duty military for the past 15 years......never had religion "forced" onto me. To be honest, no one really cares that much wht your personal beliefs are as long as they don't interfere with your performance.


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Amen