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Shadrack McGill, Alabama State Senator, Says Keeping Teacher Pay Low 'A Biblical Principle'

Someone alert the unions: raising teacher pay will actually make for worse teachers--according to one GOP lawmaker.
Alabama state Sen. Shadrack McGill said that increasing teacher pay is against "a biblical principle" because it might attract people who otherwise wouldn't do the job.

"Teachers need to make the money that they need to make," McGill said, according to the Times-Journal. "If you double a teacher's pay scale, you'll attract people who aren't called to teach ... and these teachers that are called to teach, regardless of the pay scale, they would teach. It's just in them to do. It's the ability that God give 'em."

McGill's comments came at a prayer breakfast this week in Fort Payne, Ala. State legislators are currently weighing raising teacher pay. One GOP leader proposed raising salaries of newer teachers by 2.5 percent, but critics argue that it isn't fair to longer-serving educators, according to the Montgomery Advertiser.
A recent report might justify critics' worries, showing that Alabama is actually leading the nation in starting teacher salaries, while lagging behind in average teacher pay, the Dothan Eagle reports.
The national average starting salary for a teacher is $39,000. New York Times columnist Nick Kristof has argued that paying teachers more would help attract better people to the profession, and U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan has repeatedly vocalized his assertion that teachers should have salaries starting at $60,000 and the opportunity to make up to $150,000 based on performance.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/0 ... =education" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did he actually bother to cite a text? Sounds a lot like twisting something out of context to me.

What a dummy. This guy's about as bad as Pelosi....

SuperHornet wrote:Did he actually bother to cite a text? Sounds a lot like twisting something out of context to me.

What a dummy. This guy's about as bad as Pelosi....

Right up there with this Dem.

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$60,000 is quite a ridiculous starting salary to suggest. To put that in perspective, engineers go through tougher and often longer schooling and work in more demanding environments, and their average starting salary is lower. On top of that, most will never reach $150,000/yr regardless of how well they perform.

I do see it both ways. The people who do teach, myself included in about 18 months (hopefully), would teach no matter what. As a male, it isn't about the money. It's about being a male influence in a lot of students lives that don't have that. You can't put a price on that.

But I also ask this, how many men don't go into the profession because off the lack of pay? The traditional money maker only making $30-50k a year isn't appealing to many. I often wonder how we're going too be able to allow my future wife to be a stay at home mom. I know it's been but it's getting harder and harder every day



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While we're at it, maybe we need to lower politician's salaries so that we don't attract those that go into it for the money.

Cluck U wrote:While we're at it, maybe we need to lower politician's salaries so that we don't attract those that go into it for the money.

How about we make it a law they cannot work as a Washington insider after they serve. That is where the real money is being made.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

Shadrack McGill, Alabama State Senator, Says Keeping Teacher Pay Low 'A Biblical Principle'

U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan has repeatedly vocalized his assertion that teachers should have salaries starting at $60,000 and the opportunity to make up to $150,000 based on performance.

They work 7 hours a day, with mandated breaks, 9 months a year and are almost IMPOSSIBLE to fire for poor performance. Their pay is just fine where it's at.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Skjellyfetti wrote:

They work 7 hours a day, with mandated breaks, 9 months a year and are almost IMPOSSIBLE to fire for poor performance. Their pay is just fine where it's at.

Not before they make tenure. Before tenure, all they have to do is sneeze at the wrong time and the principal could put them out on the street.

SuperHornet wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
They work 7 hours a day, with mandated breaks, 9 months a year and are almost IMPOSSIBLE to fire for poor performance. Their pay is just fine where it's at.

Not before they make tenure. Before tenure, all they have to do is sneeze at the wrong time and the principal could put them out on the street.

And?

SuperHornet wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
They work 7 hours a day, with mandated breaks, 9 months a year and are almost IMPOSSIBLE to fire for poor performance. Their pay is just fine where it's at.

Not before they make tenure. Before tenure, all they have to do is sneeze at the wrong time and the principal could put them out on the street.

But they don't. 99% of Principals are gutless wonders whose balls are held in a jar in the District Superintendent's office.

Oh, and not EVERY teacher works "only" 7 hours and "only" 9 months. Some take summer school and some work after school programs. Some spend several hours (or even all night) coaching sports, often without a stipend. And a lot of that cash goes back into the classroom to buy stuff that the district is "too poor" to buy, like pencils and construction paper. Heck, sometimes the teacher even has to front for photocopies of textbooks that are required but the district is too cheap to buy.

Teachers don't come out of the deal with as much as you think, AZ.

SuperHornet wrote:Oh, and not EVERY teacher works "only" 7 hours and "only" 9 months. Some take summer school and some work after school programs. Some spend several hours (or even all night) coaching sports, often without a stipend. And a lot of that cash goes back into the classroom to buy stuff that the district is "too poor" to buy, like pencils and construction paper. Heck, sometimes the teacher even has to front for photocopies of textbooks that are required but the district is too cheap to buy.

Teachers don't come out of the deal with as much as you think, AZ.

Cry me a fucking river. 90% of college students that get a degree in education do it because it's the easiest degree to get. You can party your ass off in college and still pass that degree. They know the pay scale going in, then have the audacity to bitch about it after the fact. And the vast majority of teachers who ARE worth a shit realize quickly they're in a dead-end profession and move on to a more lucrative career. What you're left with is the cream of the crap...and THAT's what is educating our children.

Face it SH, public opinion is against teachers on this one. There's been a couple of major and extensive national studies done over the years and all of them returned the same conclusion: teachers are being overpaid.

Not true, AZ. The vast majority of teachers I've known have been outstanding, and have stuck with it for 20-30 years. Sure, there will always be some idiots there who don't cut it, but you find that in ANY profession. My track coach has been teaching history since the mid-'80s and has had MANY kids get college credit off the various AP tests because he works his @$$ off ON HIS OWN TIME to help them prepare. We have MANY teachers who do that in our district at ALL levels. The CRAP in the school systems isn't the teachers (other than maybe those who run the union), it's the administrators, and not even all of them.

Trip, how the cr@p are teachers overpaid when they drive hoopties while the students come in with Beamers? That doesn't make sense, and you know it.

SuperHornet wrote:Not true, AZ. The vast majority of teachers I've known have been outstanding, and have stuck with it for 20-30 years. Sure, there will always be some idiots there who don't cut it, but you find that in ANY profession. My track coach has been teaching history since the mid-'80s and has had MANY kids get college credit off the various AP tests because he works his @$$ off ON HIS OWN TIME to help them prepare. We have MANY teachers who do that in our district at ALL levels. The CRAP in the school systems isn't the teachers (other than maybe those who run the union), it's the administrators, and not even all of them.

Don't use anecdotal evidence to try and make a point. I had a good teacher or two as well, but it doesn't mean the system (and it's employees) aren't totally fucked.

SuperHornet wrote:Trip, how the cr@p are teachers overpaid when they drive hoopties while the students come in with Beamers? That doesn't make sense, and you know it.

The students drive beamers because their parents aren't teachers...called capitalism...learned it from a teacher. Seriously though, you're not going to find a lot of legit research out there that says they're underpaid. I'm telling you that nearly every study states the exact opposite; it's all out there to read on the Internet. Teachers and their unions have done a great job trying to hype up their plight...except that they've forgotten most citizens have been public-schooled at one point and have seen first-hand the amount of work they put in.

Most are fairly paid, if not a bit over.

Teachers overpaid? You've got to be kidding me...

There may be certain administrators above that become overpaid. Like someone said above, teachers are doing their job 24/7/365.

AZ, I'd like to know where you went to school. Like hell you can just waltz through an Education program partying all night

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1. I have many family members in the education field....all of them have said a couple things - once you are in you are in because schools don't want to have to find someone to replace you because there isn't anyone there to replace you (the areas they are in, different in bigger areas). The school system (top to bottom) have no balls left and will always back down to parents.

2. Teaching is more than 8-4 M-F Aug-May. HOWEVER, they don't HAVE to teach summer school, they don't HAVE to do after school programs, they don't HAVE to do anything other than be there and teach during school hours.

3. Teachers that coach NEVER do it without "stipend"..by that I assume you mean contract and pay for it. I've coached at a school, and while I wasn't a teacher I know how that set up works (At least in Iowa). Depending on the sport you get a certain % of the base teacher salary. The school I worked for was a small school (about 200-250 kids 9-12) and the base pay my salary was based off of (the same thing a first year teacher makes) was $29,874.59. Yep....not too bad for your first year. To put that in perspective my first job out of college in my major field I was making $19,200 BEFORE taxes....yep, that's $10 an hour....5-7 days a week...doing 50-60 hours per week...52 weeks a year....no summer/christmas/thanksgiving/easter/springbreak/etc... vacation...in fact just the opposite those things increased my hours and stress....weekends, nights, very early mornings, getting beat up, doing just as much (Actually more) paperwork than teachers, etc.... You want to talk underpaid look at the social service field. Fuck, my wife just finished her masters and isn't making 40k per year. HER FUCKING MASTERS DOESN'T GET HER MORE THAN A FUCKTON OF TEACHERS.

What's that? Yeah, I forgot to mention that her pay takes a pretty big increase after having been in the job field for a couple years...JUST LIKE TEACHERS DO. To come out of college and expect to make anything more than 30k is fucking stupid.


Teachers know going in they won't be making the "big money", and if you are doing a teaching/social service job for the money....GET THE FUCK OUT. You are the people that are wrong with the system.


My mother-in-law taught for 30 years, and on top of it is one of the better volleyball coaches in state history was the schools athletic director for 25 years and tech coordinator for 25+ years....She retired last year making 60kish her last year.....Now, her husband is a C.O.O. of his company and has been for 2 decades...worked 80-90 hours per week (easily as he can access his work computer from home and works from 7-6, comes home and works from 7-10 when he goes to bed most nights and goes into the office on Saturdays...except football season....and Sunday's after church....)He is making less than 10K more than my mother-in-law was. Yes, it is a "smaller" company and isn't Fortune or anything, but just so you have an idea. Oh, and my mother-in-laws first teaching salary? Less than 13K.


Will I call teachers overpaid? No. It, like any other social service type field, is a thankless job with little to no appreciation from anyone outside of the field, and you are often taken advantage of because you have no choice but to be a lot of times. I will call you under-appreciated.


According to a recent NYTimes article public school teachers receive salaries about on par with private sector workers who score the same on the SAT and other standardized tests of cognitive skill. But fringe benefits — in particular, generous vacation time, pensions and retiree health plans — push total compensation for teachers roughly 50 percent above private sector levels. Interesting read on that article here http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... ate-sector" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More on that debate in these articles

"There Are Simply Too Many Teachers" -Lisa Snell is the director of education at the Reason Foundation.
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... y-teachers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let’s Focus on Quality, Then Cost" - C. Kent McGuire, the former dean of the Temple University College of Education, is the president of the Southern Education Foundation.
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... -then-cost" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



FWIW, In Michigan average starting teaching salary is $35k...broken over the 9 months they work (remember they DON'T HAVE TO do the other stuff)...and don't give me the "lesson planning takes up time" because it does but once you have your lesson plan set it rarely changes year to year...if ever a lot of times... That is $20 an hour.


FWIW follow this link to see average pay for a starting teacher, average pay for a teacher, and average pay increase
http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
State Avg Start Avg Sal 10yr% Increase Ntl Rank
Illinois $37,500 $58,686 43.4 1
Delaware $35,854 $54,264 33.9 2
Georgia $34,442 $48,300 42.1 3
Michigan $35,557 $54,739 16.9 4
Pennsylvania $34,976 $54,027 17.2 5
Ohio $33,671 $50,314 33 6
Texas $33,775 $41,744 32.9 7
Indiana $30,844 $47,255 25.4 8
Tennessee $32,369 $42,537 28.4 9
Minnesota $31,532 $48,489 31.3 10
Arkansas $28,784 $42,768 44.8 11
Colorado $35,086 $44,439 25.7 12
Alabama $31,368 $40,347 28.9 13
Oregon $33,699 $50,044 26 14
Kentucky $30,619 $42,592 28.8 15
Missouri $29,281 $40,462 25.2 16
Nebraska $29,303 $40,382 28.2 17
Oklahoma $29,174 $38,772 36.5 18
Mississippi $28,200 $40,576 46.5 19
Louisiana $31,298 $40,029 45.4 20
Kansas $27,840 $41,467 28.1 21
Connecticut $39,259 $59,304 18 22
North Carolina $27,944 $43,922 44.4 23
South Carolina $28,568 $43,011 36 24
Virginia $33,200 $43,823 26 25
Florida $33,427 $43,302 29.9 26
Wyoming $31,481 $43,255 37 27
Wisconsin $25,222 $46,390 21.5 28
New Mexico $33,730 $41,637 43.2 29
Alaska $38,657 $53,553 7.9 30
Iowa $27,284 $41,083 26.9 31
Washington $30,974 $46,326 22.4 32
Idaho $27,500 $41,150 33.2 33
Massachusetts $35,421 $56,369 35 34
Arizona $30,404 $44,672 37.5 35
New Jersey $38,408 $58,156 19.3 36
Maryland $37,125 $54,333 32 37
New York $37,321 $57,354 19.2 38
Utah $26,521 $40,007 30.8 39
West Virginia $26,704 $38,284 19.1 40
South Dakota $26,111 $34,709 31.7 41
Rhode Island $33,815 $54,730 31 42
North Dakota $24,872 $37,764 40 43
California $35,760 $59,825 41.6 44
Nevada $27,957 $44,426 22.8 45
Montana $25,318 $39,832 35.6 46
Maine $26,643 $40,737 23.9 47
New Hampshire $28,279 $45,263 26.5 48
Vermont $26,461 $46,622 28.5 49
Hawaii $35,816 $49,292 37.7 50

MSUDuo wrote:Teachers overpaid? You've got to be kidding me...

There may be certain administrators above that become overpaid. Like someone said above, teachers are doing their job 24/7/365.

AZ, I'd like to know where you went to school. Like hell you can just waltz through an Education program partying all night

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While you can't do it "partying all night every night" I can assure you that people in education programs can (and do) party "all night" quite frequently. I've watched it happen.

Very informative post Clenz, thank you.

Teaching is one of the more important jobs in society. Anytime you're dealing with other people's shit you should be payed comfortably. It's certainly more important than banking.

kalm wrote:Very informative post Clenz, thank you.

Teaching is one of the more important jobs in society. Anytime you're dealing with other people's shit you should be payed comfortably. It's certainly more important than banking.

I'm making the American Dream come true, are teachers?

89Hen wrote:

kalm wrote:Very informative post Clenz, thank you.

Teaching is one of the more important jobs in society. Anytime you're dealing with other people's shit you should be payed comfortably. It's certainly more important than banking.

I'm making the American Dream come true, are teachers?

I think we need to remove restrictions from teachers. It's often on the news that a teacher is beat up by her students and fired for defending him/herself.

clenz wrote:

MSUDuo wrote:Teachers overpaid? You've got to be kidding me...

There may be certain administrators above that become overpaid. Like someone said above, teachers are doing their job 24/7/365.

AZ, I'd like to know where you went to school. Like hell you can just waltz through an Education program partying all night

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While you can't do it "partying all night every night" I can assure you that people in education programs can (and do) party "all night" quite frequently. I've watched it happen.

Yeah, and I've seen students in business, science, computer, and other programs do the same. Your point?

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