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Not much being reported on this. Obama signed it into law and Romney supports it.

Ron Paul and Rachel Maddow are the only one's I've seen speak against it publicly. Where are all the anti-Patriot act Donks on this one?

Link

In a break from his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination, Paul took to the House floor to speak out against the NDAA's Section 1021, which allows the government to detain without trial individuals who have "substantially supported al Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States." Paul and other opponents of the section's language fear that the legislation could lead to Americans being detained without due process.

Section 1021, Paul said Wednesday, "provides for the possibility of the U.S. military acting as a kind of police force on U.S. soil, apprehending terror suspects, including Americans, and whisking them off to an undisclosed location indefinitely."

Paul continued, "Sadly, too many of my colleagues are too willing to undermine our constitution to support such outrageous legislation. One senator even said, about American citizens being picked up under this section of the NDAA, 'When they say 'I want my lawyer,' you tell them, 'Shut up. You don't get a lawyer.'"

The unnamed senator was Graham, who made the remarks on the Senate floor in December before voting on the legislation.

"Is this acceptable in someone who has taken an oath to uphold the constitution?" Paul asked on Wednesday.

President Barack Obama signed the bill into law late last year, but specified in a signing statement that he would not detain Americans without trial.
However, Paul, who has previously called the section a "slip into tyranny," worries that the language is too vague and could be used to detain Americans.

"To those American citizens thinking about helping al-Qaida, please know what will come your way: death, detention, prosecution. If you are thinking about plotting with the enemy inside our country to do the rest of us harm, please understand what is coming your way: the full force of the law. The law I am talking about is the law of armed conflict. You subject yourself to being held as an enemy of the people of the United States, interrogated about what you know and why you did what you did or planned to do, and you subject yourself to imprisonment and death. The reason you subject yourself to that regime is because your decision to turn on the rest of us and help a group of people who would destroy our way of life is not something we idly accept. It is not a common, everyday crime. It is a decision by you to commit an act of aggression against the rest of us....It is not unfair to make an American citizen account for the fact that they decided to help al-Qaida to kill us all and hold them as long as it takes to find intelligence about what may be coming next. And when they say 'I want my lawyer,' you tell them 'Shut up. You don't get a lawyer....You are an enemy combatant, and we are going to talk to you about why you joined al-Qaida.'"
— Republican Senator Lindsey Graham on the floor of Congress, Wed. Nov. 30


Here is Graham's full quote. I think Lindsey has forgotten that American Citizens are suppose to have the presumption of innocence. From what I can tell from that rambling mess he has totally missed the point. you can arrest, you can detain for a short period of time, but if you don't have the legal requirements to detain you can't hold a citizen without providing their legal rights. I am embarrassed.

Gil Dobie wrote:Not much being reported on this. Obama signed it into law and Romney supports it.

Ron Paul and Rachel Maddow are the only one's I've seen speak against it publicly. Where are all the anti-Patriot act Donks on this one?

Link

In a break from his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination, Paul took to the House floor to speak out against the NDAA's Section 1021, which allows the government to detain without trial individuals who have "substantially supported al Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States." Paul and other opponents of the section's language fear that the legislation could lead to Americans being detained without due process.

Section 1021, Paul said Wednesday, "provides for the possibility of the U.S. military acting as a kind of police force on U.S. soil, apprehending terror suspects, including Americans, and whisking them off to an undisclosed location indefinitely."

Paul continued, "Sadly, too many of my colleagues are too willing to undermine our constitution to support such outrageous legislation. One senator even said, about American citizens being picked up under this section of the NDAA, 'When they say 'I want my lawyer,' you tell them, 'Shut up. You don't get a lawyer.'"

The unnamed senator was Graham, who made the remarks on the Senate floor in December before voting on the legislation.

"Is this acceptable in someone who has taken an oath to uphold the constitution?" Paul asked on Wednesday.

President Barack Obama signed the bill into law late last year, but specified in a signing statement that he would not detain Americans without trial.
However, Paul, who has previously called the section a "slip into tyranny," worries that the language is too vague and could be used to detain Americans.

I think this was discussed in another thread and it stinks. It's another great example of Cluck's "Obushma" accusations. And there are tons of people on the left that have spoken out against it Gil. Constitutional law expert Glenn Greenwald of Salon has written a number of pieces on it ripping the Obama administration. They are a good read.

kalm wrote:I think this was discussed in another thread and it stinks. It's another great example of Cluck's "Obushma" accusations. And there are tons of people on the left that have spoken out against it Gil. Constitutional law expert Glenn Greenwald of Salon has written a number of pieces on it ripping the Obama administration. They are a good read.

Don't really consider Salon part of the major media. It should be brought up on other threads, and continue until it's changed. Obama only signed it, most of the members of Congress voted for it. It's not just Obama. This government is producing paranoid anti-freedom, Orwellian laws that are not making anyone any safer.

Gil Dobie wrote:

kalm wrote:I think this was discussed in another thread and it stinks. It's another great example of Cluck's "Obushma" accusations. And there are tons of people on the left that have spoken out against it Gil. Constitutional law expert Glenn Greenwald of Salon has written a number of pieces on it ripping the Obama administration. They are a good read.

Don't really consider Salon part of the major media. It should be brought up on other threads, and continue until it's changed. Obama only signed it, most of the members of Congress voted for it. It's not just Obama. This government is producing paranoid anti-freedom, Orwellian laws that are not making anyone any safer.

True, there are many donks and Obamabots in the msm, but very few progressives. That's why I tend to not pay too much attention to the talking heads anymore.

OL FU wrote:"To those American citizens thinking about helping al-Qaida, please know what will come your way: death, detention, prosecution. If you are thinking about plotting with the enemy inside our country to do the rest of us harm, please understand what is coming your way: the full force of the law. The law I am talking about is the law of armed conflict. You subject yourself to being held as an enemy of the people of the United States, interrogated about what you know and why you did what you did or planned to do, and you subject yourself to imprisonment and death. The reason you subject yourself to that regime is because your decision to turn on the rest of us and help a group of people who would destroy our way of life is not something we idly accept. It is not a common, everyday crime. It is a decision by you to commit an act of aggression against the rest of us....It is not unfair to make an American citizen account for the fact that they decided to help al-Qaida to kill us all and hold them as long as it takes to find intelligence about what may be coming next. And when they say 'I want my lawyer,' you tell them 'Shut up. You don't get a lawyer....You are an enemy combatant, and we are going to talk to you about why you joined al-Qaida.'"
— Republican Senator Lindsey Graham on the floor of Congress, Wed. Nov. 30


Here is Graham's full quote. I think Lindsey has forgotten that American Citizens are suppose to have the presumption of innocence. From what I can tell from that rambling mess he has totally missed the point. you can arrest, you can detain for a short period of time, but if you don't have the legal requirements to detain you can't hold a citizen without providing their legal rights. I am embarrassed.

Graham scored <<<<1000 on his SAT. he's not too bright

OL FU wrote:"To those American citizens thinking about helping al-Qaida, please know what will come your way: death, detention, prosecution. If you are thinking about plotting with the enemy inside our country to do the rest of us harm, please understand what is coming your way: the full force of the law. The law I am talking about is the law of armed conflict. You subject yourself to being held as an enemy of the people of the United States, interrogated about what you know and why you did what you did or planned to do, and you subject yourself to imprisonment and death. The reason you subject yourself to that regime is because your decision to turn on the rest of us and help a group of people who would destroy our way of life is not something we idly accept. It is not a common, everyday crime. It is a decision by you to commit an act of aggression against the rest of us....It is not unfair to make an American citizen account for the fact that they decided to help al-Qaida to kill us all and hold them as long as it takes to find intelligence about what may be coming next. And when they say 'I want my lawyer,' you tell them 'Shut up. You don't get a lawyer....You are an enemy combatant, and we are going to talk to you about why you joined al-Qaida.'"
— Republican Senator Lindsey Graham on the floor of Congress, Wed. Nov. 30


Here is Graham's full quote. I think Lindsey has forgotten that American Citizens are suppose to have the presumption of innocence. From what I can tell from that rambling mess he has totally missed the point. you can arrest, you can detain for a short period of time, but if you don't have the legal requirements to detain you can't hold a citizen without providing their legal rights. I am embarrassed.

But, he's a "conservative" who desires "less government," correct? I've never liked that guy. When he says, "You subject yourself to being held as an enemy of the people of the United States," I am offended. That is not representative of me.

Unfortunately, Lindsey is another republican who uses the conservative label. If he didn't he wouldn't get elected in SC. He is McCain's baby brother which tells you he is not a conservative. But he is a hawk, like McCain, and apparently a one more lawyer that thinks the constitution should be thrown in the garbage.

Neocons and a certain country with an inordinate amount of influence on American politics will never let him win.