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While people on another thread are exhausting themselves with posts about an atheist essayist who lacks staying power -- who will remember Hitchens in 10 years ? -- I thought I'd offer a tribute to a great man who died this past week. Vaclav Havel led the Czechs out of the dark night of Communism into democracy. He was a talented playwright as well as a courageous political figure who ruled his country fairly and faithfully for about a decade. RIP.

Ivytalk wrote:While people on another thread are exhausting themselves with posts about an atheist essayist who lacks staying power -- who will remember Hitchens in 10 years ? -- I thought I'd offer a tribute to a great man who died this past week. Vaclav Havel led the Czechs out of the dark night of Communism into democracy. He was a talented playwright as well as a courageous political figure who ruled his country fairly and faithfully for about a decade. RIP.

We all will remember Hitchens and the millions of freethinkers he created.

RIP to Havel - a very brave man

You're a brave man, Ivy, for connecting the Havel-Hitchens deaths. One a man of genuine accomplishment ... one more celebrated.

But since you did it ...

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/on-vaclav ... chens.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vaclav Havel was not just a man of politics and intellect, but a man of the arts, theater, literature — and, yes, of God. He exhorted the West and the wider post-modern world to seek “transcendence.” Hitchens might have figured God “the ultimate totalitarian,” but Havel saw God as the solution to totalitarianism, as tyranny’s antidote, as the fountainhead of freedom.

JoltinJoe wrote:You're a brave man, Ivy, for connecting the Havel-Hitchens deaths. One a man of genuine accomplishment ... one more celebrated.

But since you did it ...

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/on-vaclav ... chens.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vaclav Havel was not just a man of politics and intellect, but a man of the arts, theater, literature — and, yes, of God. He exhorted the West and the wider post-modern world to seek “transcendence.” Hitchens might have figured God “the ultimate totalitarian,” but Havel saw God as the solution to totalitarianism, as tyranny’s antidote, as the fountainhead of freedom.

God should have stopped the Russians to begin with.

Joe, what had "God" solved lately?

D1B wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:You're a brave man, Ivy, for connecting the Havel-Hitchens deaths. One a man of genuine accomplishment ... one more celebrated.

But since you did it ...

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/on-vaclav ... chens.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vaclav Havel was not just a man of politics and intellect, but a man of the arts, theater, literature — and, yes, of God. He exhorted the West and the wider post-modern world to seek “transcendence.” Hitchens might have figured God “the ultimate totalitarian,” but Havel saw God as the solution to totalitarianism, as tyranny’s antidote, as the fountainhead of freedom.

God should have stopped the Russians to begin with.

Joe, what had "God" solved lately?

Just two days ago he put a fork in KJI II.

JoltinJoe wrote:You're a brave man, Ivy, for connecting the Havel-Hitchens deaths. One a man of genuine accomplishment ... one more celebrated.

But since you did it ...

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/on-vaclav ... chens.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vaclav Havel was not just a man of politics and intellect, but a man of the arts, theater, literature — and, yes, of God. He exhorted the West and the wider post-modern world to seek “transcendence.” Hitchens might have figured God “the ultimate totalitarian,” but Havel saw God as the solution to totalitarianism, as tyranny’s antidote, as the fountainhead of freedom.

Great writer, Joe. I'm sure Havel would be thrilled his life is eulogized by christian wingnuts comparing him to Hitchens.

The author

Dr. Paul Kengor is professor of political science at Grove City College, executive director of The Center for Vision & Values, and author of the newly released Dupes: How America’s Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century. His other books include The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism and God and Ronald Reagan.

AZGrizFan wrote:

D1B wrote:
God should have stopped the Russians to begin with.

Joe, what had "God" solved lately?

Just two days ago he put a fork in KJI II.

How many decades late, dumbfuck?

D1B wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:You're a brave man, Ivy, for connecting the Havel-Hitchens deaths. One a man of genuine accomplishment ... one more celebrated.

But since you did it ...

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/on-vaclav ... chens.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vaclav Havel was not just a man of politics and intellect, but a man of the arts, theater, literature — and, yes, of God. He exhorted the West and the wider post-modern world to seek “transcendence.” Hitchens might have figured God “the ultimate totalitarian,” but Havel saw God as the solution to totalitarianism, as tyranny’s antidote, as the fountainhead of freedom.

Great writer, Joe. I'm sure Havel would be thrilled his life is eulogized by christian wingnuts comparing him to Hitchens.

The author

Dr. Paul Kengor is professor of political science at Grove City College, executive director of The Center for Vision & Values, and author of the newly released Dupes: How America’s Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century. His other books include The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism and God and Ronald Reagan.

You call him a Christian wingnut? Why don't you just admit that you think those terms are synonymous?

You probably had no idea who he is anyway before I posted this.

D1B wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Just two days ago he put a fork in KJI II.

How many decades late, dumbfuck?

Again, there are a lot more evil people in the world than Ice Giants. Just sayin'....

JoltinJoe wrote:

D1B wrote:
Great writer, Joe. I'm sure Havel would be thrilled his life is eulogized by christian wingnuts comparing him to Hitchens.

The author

Dr. Paul Kengor is professor of political science at Grove City College, executive director of The Center for Vision & Values, and author of the newly released Dupes: How America’s Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century. His other books include The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism and God and Ronald Reagan.

You call him a Christian wingnut? Why don't you just admit that you think those terms are synonymous?

You probably had no idea who he is anyway before I posted this.

I think it's safe to judge by the titles here.

D1B wrote:

Ivytalk wrote:While people on another thread are exhausting themselves with posts about an atheist essayist who lacks staying power -- who will remember Hitchens in 10 years ? -- I thought I'd offer a tribute to a great man who died this past week. Vaclav Havel led the Czechs out of the dark night of Communism into democracy. He was a talented playwright as well as a courageous political figure who ruled his country fairly and faithfully for about a decade. RIP.

We all will remember Hitchens and the millions of freethinkers he created.

Havel was a free thinker also. His thoughts earned him years in Czech prisons.

kalm wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
You call him a Christian wingnut? Why don't you just admit that you think those terms are synonymous?

You probably had no idea who he is anyway before I posted this.

I think it's safe to judge by the titles here.

He certainly has written with a conservative bent over the years, but he is hardly a hack. In fact, he wrote an overall favorable biography of Hillary Clinton some years back which caused some conservatives to castigate him.

Here's a quote from Bret Stephens' op-ed piece in today's Wall Street Journal:

"Havel feared that one's indifference to the question of the freedom of others would ultimately result in a well-fed indifference to the question of one's own freedom. ... All this was Havel's way of saying that political extremism -- whether of the Leonid Brezhnev, Kim Jong Il, Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden variety -- would flourish if free people did not actively resist the temptation to acquiesce to it in the name of 'peace,' or some other go-along-to-get-along slogan."

And such "active resistance" need not be military: it can be diplomatic or, most importantly, "spiritual belligerency" toward tyrannical regimes.

JoltinJoe wrote:

kalm wrote:
I think it's safe to judge by the titles here.

He certainly has written with a conservative bent over the years, but he is hardly a hack. In fact, he wrote an overall favorable biography of Hillary Clinton some years back which caused some conservatives to castigate him.

He's an unknown christian hack coward taking shots at a dead man, which he would be if Hitchens were alive to read his dribble.

Joe = Hitchslapped again

Ivytalk wrote:Here's a quote from Bret Stephens' op-ed piece in today's Wall Street Journal:

"Havel feared that one's indifference to the question of the freedom of others would ultimately result in a well-fed indifference to the question of one's own freedom. ... All this was Havel's way of saying that political extremism -- whether of the Leonid Brezhnev, Kim Jong Il, Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden variety -- would flourish if free people did not actively resist the temptation to acquiesce to it in the name of 'peace,' or some other go-along-to-get-along slogan."

And such "active resistance" need not be military: it can be diplomatic or, most importantly, "spiritual belligerency" toward tyrannical regimes.

D1B wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
He certainly has written with a conservative bent over the years, but he is hardly a hack. In fact, he wrote an overall favorable biography of Hillary Clinton some years back which caused some conservatives to castigate him.

He's an unknown christian hack coward taking shots at a dead man, which he would be if Hitchens were alive to read his dribble.

Joe = Hitchslapped again

You never heard of Vaclav Havel or Paul Kengor before today.

JoltinJoe wrote:

D1B wrote:
He's an unknown christian hack coward taking shots at a dead man, which he would be if Hitchens were alive to read his dribble.

Joe = Hitchslapped again

You never heard of Vaclav Havel or Paul Kengor before today.

Fuck you, Fart Sniffer, Havel is a hero of mine.

No one has heard of Paul Kengor, except for the losers at the community college where he "plies his crap".

I'm awesome.

I was actually joking, but I'm surprised you've never heard of Kengor. He has written a number of bios of leading modern political figures and is a frequent guest on cable news shows.

JoltinJoe wrote:I was actually joking, but I'm surprised you've never heard of Kengor. He has written a number of bios of leading modern political figures and is a frequent guest on cable news shows.

Maybe he has better stuff elsewhere. Thought it was unimaginative, opportunistic, in poor taste and cowardly for him to take shots at a dead man in order to honor another.

Hitchens would have ripped him a new Appaholic if he were alive.

D1B wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:I was actually joking, but I'm surprised you've never heard of Kengor. He has written a number of bios of leading modern political figures and is a frequent guest on cable news shows.

Maybe he has better stuff elsewhere. Thought it was unimaginative, opportunistic, in poor taste and cowardly for him to take shots at a dead man in order to honor another.

Hitchens would have ripped him a new Appaholic if he were alive.

I didn't think he was ripping Hitchens. I thought he was saying that Havel's outlook on how to combat totalitarianism differed from Hitchens, and this difference manifested itself in the way Hitchens refused to credit Reagan for playing a key role in defeating totalitarianism.

Hey, he had Hitchens at the Pearly Gates, which of course we all hope is true.

AZGrizFan wrote:

D1B wrote:
God should have stopped the Russians to begin with.

Joe, what had "God" solved lately?

Just two days ago he put a fork in KJI II.

Ivytalk wrote: ...Vaclav Havel led the Czechs out of the dark night of Communism into democracy. He was a talented playwright as well as a courageous political figure who ruled his country fairly and faithfully for about a decade. RIP.

Ditto!

Ivytalk wrote:While people on another thread are exhausting themselves with posts about an atheist essayist who lacks staying power -- who will remember Hitchens in 10 years ? -- I thought I'd offer a tribute to a great man who died this past week. Vaclav Havel led the Czechs out of the dark night of Communism into democracy. He was a talented playwright as well as a courageous political figure who ruled his country fairly and faithfully for about a decade. RIP.

Agreed. Brave man and a 20th century world hero.