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America's 20 Dirtiest Cities:

You don't have to live next to a coal plant to suffer the effects of air pollution. The American Lung Association figures that half the nation lives where the air is sometimes dangerous to breathe. To get these top 20 dirtiest cities we averaged the Lung Association's individual findings on ozone and particulate pollution from its report State of the Air 2011.








Drill, baby, DRILL!!!

Ahhh, love that clean mountain air.

But seriously, Cappy, 7 of the top 10 are in California.

Grizalltheway wrote:Ahhh, love that clean mountain air.

But seriously, Cappy, 7 of the top 10 are in California.

Cappy never let facts get in the way of some good propoganda.

Who is the MFIC right now?

Cap'n Cat wrote:

Nagyman, South Korea

andy7171 wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:

Nagyman, South Korea

I didn't know the USA annexed South. Korea!! It makes sense now.

It's Big Oil's fault.

By the time we come up with alternative energy the Earth won't be habitable above ground.

It would be nice to get away from coal and go more nuke power but....oh yeah, the libs hate that. They hate using our natural resources, get all NIMBY about wind farms and solar arrays, hydropower/dams that might eradicate the snail darter or disrupt salmon migration, and no offshore drilling all while driving their diesels around.

Travis hit and run tactics? Really?

ASUG8 wrote:It would be nice to get away from coal and go more nuke power but....oh yeah, the libs hate that. They hate using our natural resources, get all NIMBY about wind farms and solar arrays, hydropower/dams that might eradicate the snail darter or disrupt salmon migration, and no offshore drilling all while driving their diesels around.

ASUG8 wrote:It would be nice to get away from coal and go more nuke power but....oh yeah, the libs hate that. They hate using our natural resources, get all NIMBY about wind farms and solar arrays, hydropower/dams that might eradicate the snail darter or disrupt salmon migration, and no offshore drilling all while driving their diesels around.

Diesel is not the problem. Diesel is part of the solution in my opinion. Deisel cars get better mileage, better longevity and run just as clean as a gasoline engine these days. We really need to use more deisel in the US.

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:

ASUG8 wrote:It would be nice to get away from coal and go more nuke power but....oh yeah, the libs hate that. They hate using our natural resources, get all NIMBY about wind farms and solar arrays, hydropower/dams that might eradicate the snail darter or disrupt salmon migration, and no offshore drilling all while driving their diesels around.

Diesel is not the problem. Diesel is part of the solution in my opinion. Deisel cars get better mileage, better longevity and run just as clean as a gasoline engine these days. We really need to use more deisel in the US.

biodiesels aside, isn't diesel fuel just a lower down the tower output than gas in the refining procress? Can you refine crude oil into just diesel without getting gasoline?

andy7171 wrote:

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:

Diesel is not the problem. Diesel is part of the solution in my opinion. Deisel cars get better mileage, better longevity and run just as clean as a gasoline engine these days. We really need to use more deisel in the US.

biodiesels aside, isn't diesel fuel just a lower down the tower output than gas in the refining procress? Can you refine crude oil into just diesel without getting gasoline?

Fuck that. I like gasoline. I let my car warm up this morning for 20 minutes. Was there sheet ice on it, sure. Was it snowing, sure. Do I like burning fossil fuels, you betcha. PLUS, diesels are noisy.

andy7171 wrote:

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:

Diesel is not the problem. Diesel is part of the solution in my opinion. Deisel cars get better mileage, better longevity and run just as clean as a gasoline engine these days. We really need to use more deisel in the US.

biodiesels aside, isn't diesel fuel just a lower down the tower output than gas in the refining procress? Can you refine crude oil into just diesel without getting gasoline?

Someone correct me if I am wrong here.....
There are a few ways to make both gas and diesel. I've heard that one way to make gas is to crack diesel and you get gas and some other stuff. The biggest reason we need to look at diesel as a fuel is it is inherently more efficient, something like 30% more right off the top. A gasoline engine puts like 90% out the tailpipe as heat and a diesel is something like 60%. I know my diesel car takes a lot longer to warm up and can take 30-45 minutes at idle to reach operating temperature. I really do prefer the power a diesel engine gives me compared to gasline too. I like torque and the way it drives.

andy7171 wrote:

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:

Diesel is not the problem. Diesel is part of the solution in my opinion. Deisel cars get better mileage, better longevity and run just as clean as a gasoline engine these days. We really need to use more deisel in the US.

biodiesels aside, isn't diesel fuel just a lower down the tower output than gas in the refining procress? Can you refine crude oil into just diesel without getting gasoline?

You're right in that diesel is lower in the column than what we typically use for gasoline (diesel's got a higher boiling point and therefore the "lighter" stuff comes out of the column first), so yes, you will get gasoline when you refine to diesel. I'm not sure how much you can recycle the gasoline back into the feed before you start to get diminishing returns, so obviously at some point you need to find an outlet for the light distillates.

GannonFan wrote:

andy7171 wrote: biodiesels aside, isn't diesel fuel just a lower down the tower output than gas in the refining procress? Can you refine crude oil into just diesel without getting gasoline?

You're right in that diesel is lower in the column than what we typically use for gasoline (diesel's got a higher boiling point and therefore the "lighter" stuff comes out of the column first), so yes, you will get gasoline when you refine to diesel. I'm not sure how much you can recycle the gasoline back into the feed before you start to get diminishing returns, so obviously at some point you need to find an outlet for the light distillates.

Like NASCAR.

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:

andy7171 wrote: biodiesels aside, isn't diesel fuel just a lower down the tower output than gas in the refining procress? Can you refine crude oil into just diesel without getting gasoline?

Someone correct me if I am wrong here.....
There are a few ways to make both gas and diesel. I've heard that one way to make gas is to crack diesel and you get gas and some other stuff. The biggest reason we need to look at diesel as a fuel is it is inherently more efficient, something like 30% more right off the top. A gasoline engine puts like 90% out the tailpipe as heat and a diesel is something like 60%. I know my diesel car takes a lot longer to warm up and can take 30-45 minutes at idle to reach operating temperature. I really do prefer the power a diesel engine gives me compared to gasline too. I like torque and the way it drives.

You can crack diesel into gasoline. I'm not sure about the efficiency number, diesel as it comes out is pretty dirty and you have to clean it up before it's the diesel you see today. That was why diesel was crappy for the environment back in the day - way too much sulfur in it if you don't take extra steps to get the sulfur out.

GannonFan wrote:

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:
Someone correct me if I am wrong here.....
There are a few ways to make both gas and diesel. I've heard that one way to make gas is to crack diesel and you get gas and some other stuff. The biggest reason we need to look at diesel as a fuel is it is inherently more efficient, something like 30% more right off the top. A gasoline engine puts like 90% out the tailpipe as heat and a diesel is something like 60%. I know my diesel car takes a lot longer to warm up and can take 30-45 minutes at idle to reach operating temperature. I really do prefer the power a diesel engine gives me compared to gasline too. I like torque and the way it drives.

You can crack diesel into gasoline. I'm not sure about the efficiency number, diesel as it comes out is pretty dirty and you have to clean it up before it's the diesel you see today. That was why diesel was crappy for the environment back in the day - way too much sulfur in it if you don't take extra steps to get the sulfur out.

I am not 100% on my numbers above other than I know for sure diesels get a 30% bump. The newer engines have a lot of stuff on them to reduce the emissions and quiet them down. The lower sulfer in the fuel is a good thing these days and really helps the engine out. My diesel car that was stolen from me (modified and chipped) still got 46mpg and would beat most cars from 0-60 or 1/4 mile. Drive it up a steep hill and I wouldn't have to drop out of 5th gear to accelerate and leave most people behind. Drop into 4th and it was a blast. Now I am just driving my stock diesel car and it still gets 46mpg and I drive it 80mph down the freeway to work every day.

oh


and






But there is at least a line that can be taken back to polution.

grizzaholic wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
You're right in that diesel is lower in the column than what we typically use for gasoline (diesel's got a higher boiling point and therefore the "lighter" stuff comes out of the column first), so yes, you will get gasoline when you refine to diesel. I'm not sure how much you can recycle the gasoline back into the feed before you start to get diminishing returns, so obviously at some point you need to find an outlet for the light distillates.

Like NASCAR.

NASCAR is a waste of resources.

Ibanez wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:
Like NASCAR.

NASCAR is a waste of resources.

Name one.

grizzaholic wrote:

Ibanez wrote:
NASCAR is a waste of resources.

Name one.

time, energy, money, land. There are better things to put on TV than a fucking 300 constant left turn race.

Ibanez wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:
Name one.

time, energy, money, land. There are better things to put on TV than a fucking 300 constant left turn race.

Like GOLF, Bowling, WSOP, Soccer, Justin Beiber (sp?), Coastal Carolina, Stephen A. Smith, The Kardashians (sp)...shall I go on.

I like NASCAR, and you had better change your tune. The owner does also and I don't think he will be too happy that you are talking shit about his third favorite sport....behind chasing tail and Griz football

grizzaholic wrote:

Ibanez wrote:
time, energy, money, land. There are better things to put on TV than a fucking 300 constant left turn race.

Like GOLF, Bowling, WSOP, Soccer, Justin Beiber (sp?), Coastal Carolina, Stephen A. Smith, The Kardashians (sp)...shall I go on.

I like NASCAR, and you had better change your tune. The owner does also and I don't think he will be too happy that you are talking shit about his third favorite sport....behind chasing tail and Griz football

Or what? What's going to happen to me?

Discuss. I hate NASCAR

Ibanez wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:
Like GOLF, Bowling, WSOP, Soccer, Justin Beiber (sp?), Coastal Carolina, Stephen A. Smith, The Kardashians (sp)...shall I go on.

I like NASCAR, and you had better change your tune. The owner does also and I don't think he will be too happy that you are talking shit about his third favorite sport....behind chasing tail and Griz football

Or what? What's going to happen to me?

Discuss. I hate NASCAR

You will have your moderator salary cut in half.