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As expected, Obama and the Dems embrace the 99% and now Romney, recognizing the danger of being cornered with the 1% and apparently being the only conk smart enough to get this, is feeling everyone's pain:

"I don’t worry about the top one percent. I don’t stay up nights worrying about ‘gee we need to help them.’ I don’t worry about that. They’re doing just fine by themselves. I worry about the 99 percent in America. I want America, once again, to be the best place in the world to be middle-class. I want to have a strong and vibrant and prosperous middle-class. And so I look at what’s happening on Wall Street and my own view is, boy I understand how those people feel…The people in this country are upset."

Meanwhile, back at the White House, the Obushma administration is continuing it's love affair with Wall Street and using financial regulations as a bargaining chip to get it's jobs bill passed. Just as I predicted. SMFH

Again and again, the Fed proves it has no appetite for allowing Wall Street to eat its own pain, and continually encourages banks to stick the government with its losses and bad assets. This move will allow Bank of America to keep a Band-Aid over its disastrous financial situation far longer than it would be able to in a genuinely free market. People should be outraged at this development....


If the financial crisis proved anything, it's that Wall Street companies in particular have been serial offenders in the area of dishonest accounting and book-cooking. Sarbanes-Oxley is obviously no panacea, but removing it in exchange for a temporary, election-year job boost is exactly the kind of myopic, absurdly irresponsible shit that got us into this mess in the first place. For Obama to pull this in the middle of these protests is crazy.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/bl ... t-20111021" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you get all your news from RS?

89Hen wrote:Do you get all your news from RS?

Just Taibbi - he's done a ton of great work on the financial crisis so I will reserve the right to continue and go to that source.

I thought this blog post was especially interesting because it displays a split between some on the left with the Obushma administration.

It is really sad how the pervasive attitude is changing in our country.

I was brought up to strive to be the best I could possibly be, to accomplish the most I possibly could, to strive to be the 1%, to offer solutions not wallow in excuses. Successful people were looked up to, admired, and looked upon as role models that people could strive to emulate.

Now, with our Divider in Chief leading the charge, we are vilifying our most successful and trying to shake them down for more tax money while over half the citizens pay no tax at all. Kids are being taught to be envious and hate success, not strive for it, to offer excuses, to lower the successful to the middle of the bell curve instead of striving to get to the right of the curve, and that is a dangerous attitude and bodes terribly for our collective future.

The economy aside, THIS is why Obama has to go. Dividing the nation along class and wealth lines is HORRIBLE- make that NO- leadership and will tear the country apart from within. Great leaders inspire those around them to reach greater heights than they would on their own, the clown who is president now does anything BUT that.

blueballs wrote:It is really sad how the pervasive attitude is changing in our country.

I was brought up to strive to be the best I could possibly be, to accomplish the most I possibly could, to strive to be the 1%, to offer solutions not wallow in excuses. Successful people were looked up to, admired, and looked upon as role models that people could strive to emulate.

Now, with our Divider in Chief leading the charge, we are vilifying our most successful and trying to shake them down for more tax money while over half the citizens pay no tax at all. Kids are being taught to be envious and hate success, not strive for it, to offer excuses, to lower the successful to the middle of the bell curve instead of striving to get to the right of the curve, and that is a dangerous attitude and bodes terribly for our collective future.

The economy aside, THIS is why Obama has to go. Dividing the nation along class and wealth lines is HORRIBLE- make that NO- leadership and will tear the country apart from within. Great leaders inspire those around them to reach greater heights than they would on their own, the clown who is president now does anything BUT that.

AZGrizFan wrote:

blueballs wrote:It is really sad how the pervasive attitude is changing in our country.

I was brought up to strive to be the best I could possibly be, to accomplish the most I possibly could, to strive to be the 1%, to offer solutions not wallow in excuses. Successful people were looked up to, admired, and looked upon as role models that people could strive to emulate.

Now, with our Divider in Chief leading the charge, we are vilifying our most successful and trying to shake them down for more tax money while over half the citizens pay no tax at all. Kids are being taught to be envious and hate success, not strive for it, to offer excuses, to lower the successful to the middle of the bell curve instead of striving to get to the right of the curve, and that is a dangerous attitude and bodes terribly for our collective future.

The economy aside, THIS is why Obama has to go. Dividing the nation along class and wealth lines is HORRIBLE- make that NO- leadership and will tear the country apart from within. Great leaders inspire those around them to reach greater heights than they would on their own, the clown who is president now does anything BUT that.

So evidently you two were raised to believe that something's only illegal if you get caught, that political bribery is fine, that monopolistic capitalism is where it's at. Different America than what I was raised in.

kalm wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:

So evidently you two were raised to believe that something's only illegal if you get caught, that political bribery is fine, that monopolistic capitalism is where it's at. Different America than what I was raised in.

(well, more like proof). I say prosecute anyone you can prove broke the law but if you want to say the rules need changed, that is a different argument completely.

kalm wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:

So evidently you two were raised to believe that something's only illegal if you get caught, that political bribery is fine, that monopolistic capitalism is where it's at. Different America than what I was raised in.

"It's only cheating if you get caught" -- Al Bundy (Married with Children)

Obama doesn't have the sack to change Wall Street, these guys just walk all over him.

Inside Job - great movie.

GrizFanStuckInUtah wrote:

kalm wrote:

So evidently you two were raised to believe that something's only illegal if you get caught, that political bribery is fine, that monopolistic capitalism is where it's at. Different America than what I was raised in.

(well, more like proof). I say prosecute anyone you can prove broke the law but if you want to say the rules need changed, that is a different argument completely.

Financial crimes are really tough to prosecute - escpecially since the Justice Department has to rely on SEC investigators to do the heavy lifting. And there's a serious revolving door situation between the SEC and Wall Street. Read these two pieces by Taibbi:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... s-20110817" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... l-20110216" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or google search Joseph Cassano.

There are other journalists doing some fine investigative work on the subject, I just like Taibbi's "hunteresque style. The proof is there, just not the political will power from either side.

bluehenbillk wrote:Obama doesn't have the sack to change Wall Street, these guys just walk all over him.

Inside Job - great movie.

I agree, which is exactly why I posted this piece. He's speaking out of both sides of his mouth. That and I'm trying to build my Obama bashing centrist cred's with my conk friends.

I still have to see Inside Job - although I hear it's quite frustrating to watch.

blueballs wrote:It is really sad how the pervasive attitude is changing in our country.

I was brought up to strive to be the best I could possibly be, to accomplish the most I possibly could, to strive to be the 1%, to offer solutions not wallow in excuses. Successful people were looked up to, admired, and looked upon as role models that people could strive to emulate...

You left out the part about business being part of community and working with community during rough times.

BB...I'm a quintessential capitalist...but the flow goes both ways. I have no problem with business getting fat when there's plenty of gravy...but when there's not enough to go around, they should take a little less.

That isn't happening.

The so-called "99%" have taken the hit during this depression, while the energy producers, utilities, private-equity investors, banks and multi-nationals have increased their take.

Whoever wins in 2012, if they're serious about reversing our national downfall needs to:
1) Pull all stops preventing development of U.S. energy resources, not just "green" development.
2) Establish windfall profit taxes for publicly traded/privately held utility companies (Utilities [communications, water, waste], just like energy, are not discretionary expenditures, they are strategic commodities necessary for our country's survival. As such, utility companies need to be viewed akin to non-profits, not cash cows.).
3) Aggressively (emphasis) enforce anti-trust law. Business "growth" has become synonymous with "merger". Most major corp BOD's/CEO'S/Presidents over the past 30 years have focused on merger and liquidation, not production, market and margins. This shift in business paradigm has become a modern American shame and tragedy.
4) Start hiring leaders and visionaries, not rambling, inexperienced ideologues, to head our governmental agencies.
5) Pressure Congress to pass tort reforms in a series of targeted area bills (not an omnibus bill) with the intent of stopping "nuisance" litigation initiated for the purpose of preventing development of business or natural resource.

BB, I hope you agree that the ethics you self-ascribed result in long-term success, not just short-term gain. Throwing workers (the "99%) under the bus for short-term gain is not representative of the ethos you support.

I don't support socialist schemes, unions or anti-business/growth ideology...which many of the OWS members embody. I do, however, understand the "separation of wealth" frustration and only see this "movement" building momentum until the "takers" change course and begin increasing American production capacity.

travelinman67 wrote:

blueballs wrote:It is really sad how the pervasive attitude is changing in our country.

I was brought up to strive to be the best I could possibly be, to accomplish the most I possibly could, to strive to be the 1%, to offer solutions not wallow in excuses. Successful people were looked up to, admired, and looked upon as role models that people could strive to emulate...

You left out the part about business being part of community and working with community during rough times.

BB...I'm a quintessential capitalist...but the flow goes both ways. I have no problem with business getting fat when there's plenty of gravy...but when there's not enough to go around, they should take a little less.

That isn't happening.

The so-called "99%" have taken the hit during this depression, while the energy producers, utilities, private-equity investors, banks and multi-nationals have increased their take.

Whoever wins in 2012, if they're serious about reversing our national downfall needs to:
1) Pull all stops preventing development of U.S. energy resources, not just "green" development.
2) Establish windfall profit taxes for publicly traded/privately held utility companies (Utilities [communications, water, waste], just like energy, are not discretionary expenditures, they are strategic commodities necessary for our country's survival. As such, utility companies need to be viewed akin to non-profits, not cash cows.).
3) Aggressively (emphasis) enforce anti-trust law. Business "growth" has become synonymous with "merger". Most major corp BOD's/CEO'S/Presidents over the past 30 years have focused on merger and liquidation, not production, market and margins. This shift in business paradigm has become a modern American shame and tragedy.
4) Start hiring leaders and visionaries, not rambling, inexperienced ideologues, to head our governmental agencies.
5) Pressure Congress to pass tort reforms in a series of targeted area bills (not an omnibus bill) with the intent of stopping "nuisance" litigation initiated for the purpose of preventing development of business or natural resource.

BB, I hope you agree that the ethics you self-ascribed result in long-term success, not just short-term gain. Throwing workers (the "99%) under the bus for short-term gain is not representative of the ethos you support.

I don't support socialist schemes, unions or anti-business/growth ideology...which many of the OWS members embody. I do, however, understand the "separation of wealth" frustration and only see this "movement" building momentum until the "takers" change course and begin increasing American production capacity.

I have a different view on the natural resource issue, but overall, I think this is a very good assessment.

Grizalltheway wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:
You left out the part about business being part of community and working with community during rough times.

BB...I'm a quintessential capitalist...but the flow goes both ways. I have no problem with business getting fat when there's plenty of gravy...but when there's not enough to go around, they should take a little less.

That isn't happening.

The so-called "99%" have taken the hit during this depression, while the energy producers, utilities, private-equity investors, banks and multi-nationals have increased their take.

Whoever wins in 2012, if they're serious about reversing our national downfall needs to:
1) Pull all stops preventing development of U.S. energy resources, not just "green" development.
2) Establish windfall profit taxes for publicly traded/privately held utility companies (Utilities [communications, water, waste], just like energy, are not discretionary expenditures, they are strategic commodities necessary for our country's survival. As such, utility companies need to be viewed akin to non-profits, not cash cows.).
3) Aggressively (emphasis) enforce anti-trust law. Business "growth" has become synonymous with "merger". Most major corp BOD's/CEO'S/Presidents over the past 30 years have focused on merger and liquidation, not production, market and margins. This shift in business paradigm has become a modern American shame and tragedy.
4) Start hiring leaders and visionaries, not rambling, inexperienced ideologues, to head our governmental agencies.
5) Pressure Congress to pass tort reforms in a series of targeted area bills (not an omnibus bill) with the intent of stopping "nuisance" litigation initiated for the purpose of preventing development of business or natural resource.

BB, I hope you agree that the ethics you self-ascribed result in long-term success, not just short-term gain. Throwing workers (the "99%) under the bus for short-term gain is not representative of the ethos you support.

I don't support socialist schemes, unions or anti-business/growth ideology...which many of the OWS members embody. I do, however, understand the "separation of wealth" frustration and only see this "movement" building momentum until the "takers" change course and begin increasing American production capacity.

I have a different view on the natural resource issue, but overall, I think this is a very good assessment.

I don't agree with all of it either, but I love tman's occassional bouts of non partisanship and lucidity. He can write some strong opinions.

kalm wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:

So evidently you two were raised to believe that something's only illegal if you get caught, that political bribery is fine, that monopolistic capitalism is where it's at. Different America than what I was raised in.

Yeah. That's EXACTLY what we're saying here.

travelinman67 wrote:You left out the part about business being part of community and working with community during rough times.

BB...I'm a quintessential capitalist...but the flow goes both ways. I have no problem with business getting fat when there's plenty of gravy...but when there's not enough to go around, they should take a little less.

That isn't happening.

The so-called "99%" have taken the hit during this depression, while the energy producers, utilities, private-equity investors, banks and multi-nationals have increased their take.

Whoever wins in 2012, if they're serious about reversing our national downfall needs to:
1) Pull all stops preventing development of U.S. energy resources, not just "green" development.
2) Establish windfall profit taxes for publicly traded/privately held utility companies (Utilities [communications, water, waste], just like energy, are not discretionary expenditures, they are strategic commodities necessary for our country's survival. As such, utility companies need to be viewed akin to non-profits, not cash cows.).
3) Aggressively (emphasis) enforce anti-trust law. Business "growth" has become synonymous with "merger". Most major corp BOD's/CEO'S/Presidents over the past 30 years have focused on merger and liquidation, not production, market and margins. This shift in business paradigm has become a modern American shame and tragedy.
4) Start hiring leaders and visionaries, not rambling, inexperienced ideologues, to head our governmental agencies.
5) Pressure Congress to pass tort reforms in a series of targeted area bills (not an omnibus bill) with the intent of stopping "nuisance" litigation initiated for the purpose of preventing development of business or natural resource.

BB, I hope you agree that the ethics you self-ascribed result in long-term success, not just short-term gain. Throwing workers (the "99%) under the bus for short-term gain is not representative of the ethos you support.

I don't support socialist schemes, unions or anti-business/growth ideology...which many of the OWS members embody. I do, however, understand the "separation of wealth" frustration and only see this "movement" building momentum until the "takers" change course and begin increasing American production capacity.

T-Man, all that's well and good but it doesn't change the fact that Blueball's point is spot on regarding OBAMA and his decision to begin

vilifying our most successful and trying to shake them down for more tax money while over half the citizens pay no tax at all. Kids are being taught to be envious and hate success, not strive for it, to offer excuses, to lower the successful to the middle of the bell curve instead of striving to get to the right of the curve, and that is a dangerous attitude and bodes terribly for our collective future.

I'm all for change, but driving a huge wedge between classes and using class warfare as the basis for your reelection strategy is incredibly short-sighted and damaging to the country.

AZGrizFan wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:You left out the part about business being part of community and working with community during rough times.

BB...I'm a quintessential capitalist...but the flow goes both ways. I have no problem with business getting fat when there's plenty of gravy...but when there's not enough to go around, they should take a little less.

That isn't happening.

The so-called "99%" have taken the hit during this depression, while the energy producers, utilities, private-equity investors, banks and multi-nationals have increased their take.

Whoever wins in 2012, if they're serious about reversing our national downfall needs to:
1) Pull all stops preventing development of U.S. energy resources, not just "green" development.
2) Establish windfall profit taxes for publicly traded/privately held utility companies (Utilities [communications, water, waste], just like energy, are not discretionary expenditures, they are strategic commodities necessary for our country's survival. As such, utility companies need to be viewed akin to non-profits, not cash cows.).
3) Aggressively (emphasis) enforce anti-trust law. Business "growth" has become synonymous with "merger". Most major corp BOD's/CEO'S/Presidents over the past 30 years have focused on merger and liquidation, not production, market and margins. This shift in business paradigm has become a modern American shame and tragedy.
4) Start hiring leaders and visionaries, not rambling, inexperienced ideologues, to head our governmental agencies.
5) Pressure Congress to pass tort reforms in a series of targeted area bills (not an omnibus bill) with the intent of stopping "nuisance" litigation initiated for the purpose of preventing development of business or natural resource.

BB, I hope you agree that the ethics you self-ascribed result in long-term success, not just short-term gain. Throwing workers (the "99%) under the bus for short-term gain is not representative of the ethos you support.

I don't support socialist schemes, unions or anti-business/growth ideology...which many of the OWS members embody. I do, however, understand the "separation of wealth" frustration and only see this "movement" building momentum until the "takers" change course and begin increasing American production capacity.

T-Man, all that's well and good but it doesn't change the fact that Blueball's point is spot on regarding OBAMA and his decision to begin

vilifying our most successful and trying to shake them down for more tax money while over half the citizens pay no tax at all. Kids are being taught to be envious and hate success, not strive for it, to offer excuses, to lower the successful to the middle of the bell curve instead of striving to get to the right of the curve, and that is a dangerous attitude and bodes terribly for our collective future.

I'm all for change, but driving a huge wedge between classes and using class warfare as the basis for your reelection strategy is incredibly short-sighted and damaging to the country.

I'm not saying he isn't driving the wedge for political gain, I'm merely responding to the core issue. There IS a problem, and attempting to marginalize the OWS movement will only inflame those who agree with the 1%/99% assertion.
As for Obama, he's fighting for his life...and losing the battle. If the 1% were smart, they'd take the wind out of his sails by reinvesting in industry...creates jobs and deflates banking/investor's balance sheets.

Think about it...

...he wins if the conks attempt to stonewall, mock and marginalize the OWS movement (i.e., not seriously empathetic with the plight of the working class [read: Voters]), and he wins if the conks act cavalier, justifying wealth accumulation with lame "capitalism" defensive rhetoric.

travelinman67 wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
T-Man, all that's well and good but it doesn't change the fact that Blueball's point is spot on regarding OBAMA and his decision to begin



I'm all for change, but driving a huge wedge between classes and using class warfare as the basis for your reelection strategy is incredibly short-sighted and damaging to the country.

I'm not saying he isn't driving the wedge for political gain, I'm merely responding to the core issue. There IS a problem, and attempting to marginalize the OWS movement will only inflame those who agree with the 1%/99% assertion.
As for Obama, he's fighting for his life...and losing the battle. If the 1% were smart, they'd take the wind out of his sails by reinvesting in industry...creates jobs and deflates banking/investor's balance sheets.

Think about it...

...he wins if the conks attempt to stonewall, mock and marginalize the OWS movement (i.e., not seriously empathetic with the plight of the working class [read: Voters]), and he wins if the conks act cavalier, justifying wealth accumulation with lame "capitalism" defensive rhetoric.

Z Can't even win an argument amongst his homies.

D1B wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:
I'm not saying he isn't driving the wedge for political gain, I'm merely responding to the core issue. There IS a problem, and attempting to marginalize the OWS movement will only inflame those who agree with the 1%/99% assertion.
As for Obama, he's fighting for his life...and losing the battle. If the 1% were smart, they'd take the wind out of his sails by reinvesting in industry...creates jobs and deflates banking/investor's balance sheets.

Think about it...

...he wins if the conks attempt to stonewall, mock and marginalize the OWS movement (i.e., not seriously empathetic with the plight of the working class [read: Voters]), and he wins if the conks act cavalier, justifying wealth accumulation with lame "capitalism" defensive rhetoric.

Z Can't even win an argument amongst his homies.

Who said we're arguing?

D1B wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:
I'm not saying he isn't driving the wedge for political gain, I'm merely responding to the core issue. There IS a problem, and attempting to marginalize the OWS movement will only inflame those who agree with the 1%/99% assertion.
As for Obama, he's fighting for his life...and losing the battle. If the 1% were smart, they'd take the wind out of his sails by reinvesting in industry...creates jobs and deflates banking/investor's balance sheets.

Think about it...

...he wins if the conks attempt to stonewall, mock and marginalize the OWS movement (i.e., not seriously empathetic with the plight of the working class [read: Voters]), and he wins if the conks act cavalier, justifying wealth accumulation with lame "capitalism" defensive rhetoric.

Z Can't even win an argument amongst his homies.

Nor can he get any rest with you pacing around under his window, caterwauling with your ass lubed up.

blueballs wrote:It is really sad how the pervasive attitude is changing in our country.

I was brought up to strive to be the best I could possibly be, to accomplish the most I possibly could, to strive to be the 1%, to offer solutions not wallow in excuses. Successful people were looked up to, admired, and looked upon as role models that people could strive to emulate.

Now, with our Divider in Chief leading the charge, we are vilifying our most successful and trying to shake them down for more tax money while over half the citizens pay no tax at all. Kids are being taught to be envious and hate success, not strive for it, to offer excuses, to lower the successful to the middle of the bell curve instead of striving to get to the right of the curve, and that is a dangerous attitude and bodes terribly for our collective future.

The economy aside, THIS is why Obama has to go. Dividing the nation along class and wealth lines is HORRIBLE- make that NO- leadership and will tear the country apart from within. Great leaders inspire those around them to reach greater heights than they would on their own, the clown who is president now does anything BUT that.

Except for the ones we give eight-figure bonuses to with our tax money.

And there is no such thing as a person who pays no taxes at all, except for some "corporate persons"

houndawg wrote:

blueballs wrote:It is really sad how the pervasive attitude is changing in our country.

I was brought up to strive to be the best I could possibly be, to accomplish the most I possibly could, to strive to be the 1%, to offer solutions not wallow in excuses. Successful people were looked up to, admired, and looked upon as role models that people could strive to emulate.

Now, with our Divider in Chief leading the charge, we are vilifying our most successful and trying to shake them down for more tax money while over half the citizens pay no tax at all. Kids are being taught to be envious and hate success, not strive for it, to offer excuses, to lower the successful to the middle of the bell curve instead of striving to get to the right of the curve, and that is a dangerous attitude and bodes terribly for our collective future.

The economy aside, THIS is why Obama has to go. Dividing the nation along class and wealth lines is HORRIBLE- make that NO- leadership and will tear the country apart from within. Great leaders inspire those around them to reach greater heights than they would on their own, the clown who is president now does anything BUT that.

Except for the ones we give eight-figure bonuses to with our tax money.

Yet another reason why I was against the bailouts.

AZGrizFan wrote:

houndawg wrote:
Except for the ones we give eight-figure bonuses to with our tax money.

Yet another reason why I was against the bailouts.

I'd just like to see some of them get what a black dude who steals a car would get..

AZGrizFan wrote:

houndawg wrote:
Except for the ones we give eight-figure bonuses to with our tax money.

Yet another reason why I was against the bailouts.

Good God man, get some consistency. Here, I'll help you out. BB's post made sense other than the banking top 1% today ain't the same as the icon's we supposedly grew up with.

travelinman67 wrote:

D1B wrote:
Z Can't even win an argument amongst his homies.

Nor can he get any rest with you pacing around under his window, caterwauling with your ass lubed up.

Pretty lame T. Just keep kickin Z around and we'll be fine.