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Just another day in paradise.

KABUL, Afghanistan — In the most direct assault since the American embassy opened here nine years ago, heavily armed insurgents wearing suicide vests put the embassy and the nearby NATO headquarters in their crosshairs, showing the Taliban’s ability to enter even the most heavily fortified districts in the country.

At least six people were killed including four policemen, according to the Kabul Provincial Police and the Ministry of the Interior. There were also 19 people wounded including four Afghans who were struck at the American Embassy. Late in the evening the Interior ministry was still counting the number of dead insurgents, but it appeared that at least seven had entered the city and five had taken positions in a 14-story building that was under construction and had clear sight lines to its targets.

The assault from the building was all the more dismaying because it suggested the involvement of many people who would have allowed heavily armed men to enter the city and get through the cordon that surrounds the capital’s center.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/world ... ted=1&_r=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



And today's incident followed Sunday's attacks that added to the US casualties.


KABUL — American claims to have reversed the insurgents’ momentum in Afghanistan rang hollow Sunday, as military hospitals were overrun with record numbers of casualties from a spate of Taliban attacks.

At least five people were killed and 108 injured in separate attacks on Saturday, making it one of the bloodiest days for U.S. forces in the decade-long war. The worst toll was in Wardak, about 80 kilometres southwest of Kabul, where a truck bomb outside an American base left two people dead and 101 others wounded, including 77 American soldiers and two U.S. civilians.

“Two hours after the attack in Wardak, five rockets came down on Bagram Airfield, the main American base in Afghanistan, north of Kabul. At least two Afghan security guards were killed, and seven others injured, including three American soldiers, a western official said. A commemorative run around the airfield — 9.11 miles to mark the tenth anniversary of 9/11 — was cancelled amid fears of further bombardment

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/canad ... z1XrZWYUAx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Good thing we have increased our presence in Afghanistan.

We need to get out now. Screw the transition, it won't matter. The Taliban will wait us out, the Afghani's have a history of doing that to invaders.

All we are doing is putting our troops at risk and running up our war tab.

We shoudl be willing to stick with it as long as it takes. But we're not. Neither are the other Western Nations. And that general situation is why the Islamists have a chance to win. To them, 1000 years, 10000 years a million years...it doesn't matter. They are steadfast.

Western civilization is not. To Western civilization, if a situation is not resolved in a few years patience is lost. We think 10 or 20 years is a long time. They don't. And they're right about that.

A few bars of "Soap on a Rope" hanging from the compound walls would have prevented this.

JohnStOnge wrote:We shoudl be willing to stick with it as long as it takes. But we're not. Neither are the other Western Nations. And that general situation is why the Islamists have a chance to win. To them, 1000 years, 10000 years a million years...it doesn't matter. They are steadfast.

Western civilization is not. To Western civilization, if a situation is not resolved in a few years patience is lost. We think 10 or 20 years is a long time. They don't. And they're right about that.

They can and will out wait us out, it's their country they have no where else to go. I'm not sure what we gain by waiting it out and we can't afford it. We certainly can't wait this out for 20+ years, it's not worth it. Bring the troops home.

BlueHen86 wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:We shoudl be willing to stick with it as long as it takes. But we're not. Neither are the other Western Nations. And that general situation is why the Islamists have a chance to win. To them, 1000 years, 10000 years a million years...it doesn't matter. They are steadfast.

Western civilization is not. To Western civilization, if a situation is not resolved in a few years patience is lost. We think 10 or 20 years is a long time. They don't. And they're right about that.

They can and will out wait us out, it's their country they have no where else to go. I'm not sure what we gain by waiting it out and we can't afford it. We certainly can't wait this out for 20+ years, it's not worth it. Bring the troops home.

In addition to it being their homeland, time in Islam is nearly meaningless by itself. The thoughts of time, space, life, and death all just kinda blend together. It's really hard to explain if you haven't experienced it or read the Quran, but point is that unlike here, patience is simply part of the area's culture and an integral part of the religion itself. You'll find it in abundance.

That said, this concept has recently been very much challenged by the internet and social media. You'll notice that younger generations of Arab Muslims tend to be very individualistic compared to their older counterparts.

edit: Also, time in Islam isn't really about the "here and now." I honestly don't have the ability to explain it too well, but the past, present, and future tend to all mix together. It's very different than here.

JohnStOnge wrote:We shoudl be willing to stick with it as long as it takes. But we're not. Neither are the other Western Nations. And that general situation is why the Islamists have a chance to win. To them, 1000 years, 10000 years a million years...it doesn't matter. They are steadfast.

Western civilization is not. To Western civilization, if a situation is not resolved in a few years patience is lost. We think 10 or 20 years is a long time. They don't. And they're right about that.

I gotta' say, you have it wrong...for so many reasons. I'm all for blowing the crap out of anyone that threatens America (fuck, yeah!). Seriously, I have little tolerance for playing silly games with people who want our culture gone. Kill them all day long...all life long. Poison the extremists, nuke them, bomb them with pig fat...whatever it takes for as long as it takes.

But what good does it do to have our boys over there? Seriously? That piece of ground means nothing to us. The only reason it has any "value" is because people think if we leave, we've lost. That's just pure poppycock.

Bush had it right...at first. They attacked us. So, bomb the crap out of them with overwhelming force. But he got it wrong when he decided to stick around and try to build a nation in a worthless backwater full of local warlords who's only allegiance is to their opium crop. A simple, "we will be back if you allow any more nonsence" would have done the trick at a much lower cost.

Then tell the royal folks in Saudi Arabia and Co. to chain their dogs or lose their lives.

∞∞∞ wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:
They can and will out wait us out, it's their country they have no where else to go. I'm not sure what we gain by waiting it out and we can't afford it. We certainly can't wait this out for 20+ years, it's not worth it. Bring the troops home.

In addition to it being their homeland, time in Islam is nearly meaningless by itself. The thoughts of time, space, life, and death all just kinda blend together. It's really hard to explain if you haven't experienced it or read the Quran, but point is that unlike here, patience is simply part of the area's culture and an integral part of the religion itself. You'll find it in abundance.

That said, this concept has recently been very much challenged by the internet and social media. You'll notice that younger generations of Arab Muslims tend to be very individualistic compared to their older counterparts.

edit: Also, time in Islam isn't really about the "here and now." I honestly don't have the ability to explain it too well, but the past, present, and future tend to all mix together. It's very different than here.

Old school Islam is dying among the better educated Muslins...just like old school, fire and brimstone Christianity. But those educated Muslins had better find a way to help their poor cousins or they'll be a lot more blood spilled.

Cluck U wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:We shoudl be willing to stick with it as long as it takes. But we're not. Neither are the other Western Nations. And that general situation is why the Islamists have a chance to win. To them, 1000 years, 10000 years a million years...it doesn't matter. They are steadfast.

Western civilization is not. To Western civilization, if a situation is not resolved in a few years patience is lost. We think 10 or 20 years is a long time. They don't. And they're right about that.

I gotta' say, you have it wrong...for so many reasons. I'm all for blowing the crap out of anyone that threatens America (fuck, yeah!). Seriously, I have little tolerance for playing silly games with people who want our culture gone. Kill them all day long...all life long. Poison the extremists, nuke them, bomb them with pig fat...whatever it takes for as long as it takes.

But what good does it do to have our boys over there? Seriously? That piece of ground means nothing to us. The only reason it has any "value" is because people think if we leave, we've lost. That's just pure poppycock.

Bush had it right...at first. They attacked us. So, bomb the crap out of them with overwhelming force. But he got it wrong when he decided to stick around and try to build a nation in a worthless backwater full of local warlords who's only allegiance is to their opium crop. A simple, "we will be back if you allow any more nonsence" would have done the trick at a much lower cost.

Then tell the royal folks in Saudi Arabia and Co. to chain their dogs or lose their lives.

+1

Cluck U wrote:But he got it wrong when he decided to stick around and try to build a nation in a worthless backwater

Do you think sticking around helped ignite people to rise up in other middle east and northern African nations?

89Hen wrote:

Cluck U wrote:But he got it wrong when he decided to stick around and try to build a nation in a worthless backwater

Do you think sticking around helped ignite people to rise up in other middle east and northern African nations?

Nope, not at all.

In fact, just the opposite. The Egyptian people basically told us to stay the hell out of their rebellion...hell, Marabuk was one of our guys. They, and others, wanted no part of a US occupation.

Modern technology got people to rise up en masse...the ability to communicate ideas and photos quickly. Think flash mob with a purpose.

The USofA had nothing to do with a guy setting himself on fire in Tunisia because he felt insulted by a female officer. Hell, most of the poor people in that sh*thole of a nation have no access to "free" TV station so they weren't exactly getting the latest unbiased news of the US "occupation" of one or more of their fellow Muslim countries. They did their own revolution against a weak government and once their success was noticed, it spread to the other countries.

Arab countries have had protests before...and most went away or were crushed by the time anyone noticed. This time, word spread quickly as more people were able to watch and hear real time reports. The crowds gained confidence as they were able to comminicate their desire to not give up so quickly.

We made our point, now it's time to bring the boys home and rebuild our country's economy and infrastructure. Let's set an example and return to prosperity.