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http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/05/news/ec ... &hpt=hp_t1

n its report Friday, S&P ruled that the U.S. fell short: "The downgrade reflects our opinion that the ... plan that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government's medium-term debt dynamics."

S&P also cited dysfunctional policymaking in Washington as a factor in the downgrade. "The effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges."

Needed to happen. 2012 cannot get here soon enough. This event is a "mandate" for the entire Washington political system as it currently exists.

Election year mantra: "GET ALL THOSE BUMS OUT!!!"

Maybe congress will learn a lesson if we give them all a two year time-out.

I don't think I will vote for a single incumbent. The only way things will change is if we stop enabling these a-holes and vote them out. All of them, not just the ones from the "other" party.

They are all to blame. Anyone who tries to place the blame squarely on Obama or squarely on the GOP is not being honest about things. They all suck.

Dump Pelosi and Frank....

BlueHen86 wrote:Maybe congress will learn a lesson if we give them all a two year time-out.

I don't think I will vote for a single incumbent. The only way things will change is if we stop enabling these a-holes and vote them out. All of them, not just the ones from the "other" party.

They are all to blame. Anyone who tries to place the blame squarely on Obama or squarely on the GOP is not being honest about things. They all suck.

Don't know what state you live in. Did both your Senators & Rep vote to kick the can down the road?

There are those incumbents in DC (in the minority) who tried in a futile effort to stop it. In PA between my 2 Senators (Dem Casey and Republican Toomey) and Republican Rep Meehan only Toomey voted against it. Toomey stood principled IMHOP.

If Meehan got a fiscally conservative challenger in the Republican primary or a fiscally conservative independent or dem (highly unlikely) in the general I'd vote against Meehan.

S&P? We talkin' 'bout the same S&P that gave AAA ratings to shitty securities that helped create this whole mess?

F Standard & Poors. This is a thinly veiled disguise to dictate terms to the US, and of course, this rumor was leaked this morning so its friends on Wall Street could profit before the decision was officially announced. S&P has zero credibility.

∞∞∞ wrote:S&P? We talkin' 'bout the same S&P that gave AAA ratings to shitty securities that helped create this whole mess?

And then claimed zero responsibility.


Yup

JoltinJoe wrote:F Standard & Poors. This is a thinly veiled disguise to dictate terms to the US, and of course, this rumor was leaked this morning so its friends on Wall Street could profit before the decision was officially announced. S&P has zero credibility.

JoltinJoe wrote:F Standard & Poors. This is a thinly veiled disguise to dictate terms to the US, and of course, this rumor was leaked this morning so its friends on Wall Street could profit before the decision was officially announced. S&P has zero credibility.

Timing is everything, and I concur that the Friday evening announcement was well=planned to ensure certain folks were properly positioned in the markets prior to public disclosure.

danefan wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:F Standard & Poors. This is a thinly veiled disguise to dictate terms to the US, and of course, this rumor was leaked this morning so its friends on Wall Street could profit before the decision was officially announced. S&P has zero credibility.

I can assure you that I was told this morning by someone in the know that this downgrade would be announced after the market closed today.

JayBilasBitesPillows wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:F Standard & Poors. This is a thinly veiled disguise to dictate terms to the US, and of course, this rumor was leaked this morning so its friends on Wall Street could profit before the decision was officially announced. S&P has zero credibility.

Timing is everything, and I concur that the Friday evening announcement was well=planned to ensure certain folks were properly positioned in the markets prior to public disclosure.

Yup.

Wonder what Asia will do Sunday night. I actually don't think it will be that bad, but that's just a guess.

∞∞∞ wrote:S&P? We talkin' 'bout the same S&P that gave AAA ratings to shitty securities that helped create this whole mess?

Exactly. Fuck S&P and all the other rating agencies.

Regardless of S&P, what is it that makes us think we can just keep spending more than we take in forever without ever hitting a wall? I mean, I guess we could just switch to a system where government just makes more money as needed. I guess that would be Ok because then there wouldn't be any need for taxes. Government could just make money and distribute it.

Our concept of government is totally out of whack. It shouldn't be doing 90% of what it's doing. I mean, that's kind of just a statement, not reallly a quantitiatve analysis. But this thing where government is supposed to solve every problem and make sure everybody's taken care of is ridiculous.

So anyways, what does it actually mean if S&P has us at AA+ if the others still have us at AAA?

∞∞∞ wrote:So anyways, what does it actually mean if S&P has us at AA+ if the others still have us at AAA?

I guess we will find out on Sunday night when the Asian markets open. Still, this will cost our government something extra to service our debt.

JoltinJoe wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote:So anyways, what does it actually mean if S&P has us at AA+ if the others still have us at AAA?

I guess we will find out on Sunday night when the Asian markets open. Still, this will cost our government something extra to service our debt.

It will be more expensive to issue new debt. Interest rates will go up because of this and I have a feeling the S&P downgrade won't be the last. Several foreign rating agencies had already given us downgrades.

∞∞∞ wrote:S&P? We talkin' 'bout the same S&P that gave AAA ratings to shitty securities that helped create this whole mess?

The very same.

∞∞∞ wrote:S&P? We talkin' 'bout the same S&P that gave AAA ratings to shitty securities that helped create this whole mess?

Yep, if rating agencies have licenses, they should have lost their in 2008.

JoltinJoe wrote:F Standard & Poors. This is a thinly veiled disguise to dictate terms to the US, and of course, this rumor was leaked this morning so its friends on Wall Street could profit before the decision was officially announced. S&P has zero credibility.

Yep again, didn't two other ratings agencies maintain the AAA rating

∞∞∞ wrote:S&P? We talkin' 'bout the same S&P that gave AAA ratings to shitty securities that helped create this whole mess?

I asked the same question on the default thread a week ago.

I agree that a country with a national debt exceeding 100% of GDP certainly shouldn't have a top credit rating.

On the other hand, if these ratings agencies proved themselves to be so bad in 08', why does anyone still pay attention to them if they are so flawed? Why not just ignore them?

Are Moody's and Fitch's likely to follow suit?

BDKJMU wrote:Are Moody's and Fitch's likely to follow suit?

Moody's has extended the triple A rating

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011/08 ... aa-rating/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So has Fitch

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_c ... roval.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In April:

"'No risk' the US will lose its top credit rating, says Treasury's Geithner

Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner said Tuesday there is "no risk" the U.S. will lose its top credit rating amid a new analysis that revised its outlook on American debt to "negative.".....

.....There is no chance that the U.S. will lose its top credit rating, Geithner said, forcefully disputing the notion that S&P or other ratings services might downgrade U.S. bonds from their current AAA rating.

"No risk of that, no risk," Geithner said on the Fox Business Network........"

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/b ... dit-rating" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There was a story on CNBC last night where S&P had given the US Government advanced warning on the downgrade. Government officials reviewed the numbers and told S&P of errors in their calculation. S&P apparently admitted the errors and made a further review. Apparently they still thought the downgrade was warranted, but if the storty is true, the S&P's credibility is further shot to hell.

I don't believe for a minute that we are in a good situation and the down grade may be the right thing. But I am like everyone else. Without the high rating of mortgage back securities many investors would not have acquired the securities. Lots of people to blame in the 2008 debacle, but the rating agences are one of the biggest players and have not suffered much for it.

The real question is will anyone give a crap. The danger is that certain pension funds etc can only invest in AAA rated instruments.