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US borrowing tops 100% of GDP: Treasury

"US debt shot up $238 billion to reach 100 percent of gross domestic project after the government's debt ceiling was lifted, Treasury figures showed Wednesday.
Treasury borrowing jumped Tuesday, the data showed, immediately after President Barack Obama signed into law an increase in the debt ceiling as the country's spending commitments reached a breaking point and it threatened to default on its debt.
The new borrowing took total public debt to $14.58 trillion, over end-2010 GDP of $14.53 trillion, and putting it in a league with highly indebted countries like Italy and Belgium......

Well, maybe I shouldn't be shocked. All I know if we're fucked.....

We were above 120% following wwII and still managed to rebuild Europe and educate a generation of GI's. Of course we actually manufactured shit back then too and that's why were now probably fucked.

But the new debt deal cuts spending by over a trillion dollars...

SDHornet wrote:But the new debt deal cuts spending by over a trillion dollars...

Pretty much. What’s more infuriating is the circle jerk all the politicians did after the deal was done. The self righteous patting on the back and smiles while they did nothing but kick the can down the road for another year or so. They are all completely clueless.

kalm wrote:We were above 120% following wwII and still managed to rebuild Europe and educate a generation of GI's. Of course we actually manufactured **** back then too and that's why were now probably ****.

You know, we are still the largest manufacturing country in the world (obviously China is about to overtake us - I'm sure we're in the gray area where they may have or may not have, depending on your source) so it's not like we aren't making things. We don't make zippers and those little umbrellas that go into girlie cocktail drinks, but we do make a heckuva lot of stuff.

But post-WWII is always a terrible reference when trying to make economic parallels. More than half of the industrialized world (i.e. Europe) was literally decimated by war - our economy could do whatever it wanted because there was virtually no real competition. You could make a fortune building or designing or selling most anything because the rebuilding of the world meant the demand was huge and the competition was minimal. If we need a world war to get ahead of the spending we've buried ourselves in and continue to heap on top of ourselves then it really is doom and gloom times.

GannonFan wrote:If we need a world war to get ahead of the spending we've buried ourselves in and continue to heap on top of ourselves then it really is doom and gloom times.

We don't need a world war to get ahead... and it's NOT really doom and gloom times.

Global Financial Crisis. Everyone is hurt.

Who is better off right now? Who exactly is it that we're trying to get ahead of?

China?

Russia?

Japan?

EU?

Skjellyfetti wrote:

GannonFan wrote:If we need a world war to get ahead of the spending we've buried ourselves in and continue to heap on top of ourselves then it really is doom and gloom times.

We don't need a world war to get ahead... and it's NOT really doom and gloom times.

Global Financial Crisis. Everyone is hurt.

Who is better off right now? Who exactly is it that we're trying to get ahead of?

China?

Russia?

Japan?

EU?

Oh, I agree - I wouldn't trade places with any other country in the world. China's got a great GDP and growth, but most of their people still barely have enough food to live. Being poor today in America is a helluva lot better than it's been being poor anywhere and anytime in the world. The one advantage that we do have is that the world is so intertwined that we aren't alone in this and we'll be in a good position if we can get out of this crisis. I'm just not sure how we do get out of this crisis.

GannonFan wrote:

Skjellyfetti wrote:
We don't need a world war to get ahead... and it's NOT really doom and gloom times.

Global Financial Crisis. Everyone is hurt.

Who is better off right now? Who exactly is it that we're trying to get ahead of?

China?

Russia?

Japan?

EU?

Oh, I agree - I wouldn't trade places with any other country in the world. China's got a great GDP and growth, but most of their people still barely have enough food to live. Being poor today in America is a helluva lot better than it's been being poor anywhere and anytime in the world. The one advantage that we do have is that the world is so intertwined that we aren't alone in this and we'll be in a good position if we can get out of this crisis. I'm just not sure how we do get out of this crisis. :?

If you were sure, you'd be POTUS. Or at least head of the World Bank.

GannonFan wrote:

kalm wrote:We were above 120% following wwII and still managed to rebuild Europe and educate a generation of GI's. Of course we actually manufactured **** back then too and that's why were now probably ****.

You know, we are still the largest manufacturing country in the world (obviously China is about to overtake us - I'm sure we're in the gray area where they may have or may not have, depending on your source) so it's not like we aren't making things. We don't make zippers and those little umbrellas that go into girlie cocktail drinks, but we do make a heckuva lot of stuff.

But post-WWII is always a terrible reference when trying to make economic parallels. More than half of the industrialized world (i.e. Europe) was literally decimated by war - our economy could do whatever it wanted because there was virtually no real competition. You could make a fortune building or designing or selling most anything because the rebuilding of the world meant the demand was huge and the competition was minimal. If we need a world war to get ahead of the spending we've buried ourselves in and continue to heap on top of ourselves then it really is doom and gloom times.

According to CID 1990's Buchanon article 50,000 factories closed and 3,000,000 million manufacturing jobs were lost in the last decade due to free trade. That's not a good trend. You can be flippant all you want about inconsequential products, but with rising fuel costs, our debt, and the fact we have a natural resource and infrastructure advantage, those jobs and the wealth they create would come in real handy right now.

Free trade is a failure and an independent like you should at least appreciate the bipartisan nature of that.

kalm wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
You know, we are still the largest manufacturing country in the world (obviously China is about to overtake us - I'm sure we're in the gray area where they may have or may not have, depending on your source) so it's not like we aren't making things. We don't make zippers and those little umbrellas that go into girlie cocktail drinks, but we do make a heckuva lot of stuff.

But post-WWII is always a terrible reference when trying to make economic parallels. More than half of the industrialized world (i.e. Europe) was literally decimated by war - our economy could do whatever it wanted because there was virtually no real competition. You could make a fortune building or designing or selling most anything because the rebuilding of the world meant the demand was huge and the competition was minimal. If we need a world war to get ahead of the spending we've buried ourselves in and continue to heap on top of ourselves then it really is doom and gloom times.

According to CID 1990's Buchanon article 50,000 factories closed and 3,000,000 million manufacturing jobs were lost in the last decade due to free trade. That's not a good trend. You can be flippant all you want about inconsequential products, but with rising fuel costs, our debt, and the fact we have a natural resource and infrastructure advantage, those jobs and the wealth they create would come in real handy right now.

Free trade is a failure and an independent like you should at least appreciate the bipartisan nature of that.

That we fail to fully exploit.....

Skjellyfetti wrote:

GannonFan wrote:If we need a world war to get ahead of the spending we've buried ourselves in and continue to heap on top of ourselves then it really is doom and gloom times.

We don't need a world war to get ahead... and it's NOT really doom and gloom times.

Global Financial Crisis. Everyone is hurt.

Who is better off right now? Who exactly is it that we're trying to get ahead of?

China?

Russia?

Japan?

EU?

Typical liberal low expectations...

I'm not competing with the Japs, Russians, Chinese or any other country. I'm competing with my parents who passed along wealth, legacy, a good lifestyle, and health and education for me. I'm trying to top because I love my family and want to be the best I can be so I can do better by my grandchildren and leave them better off than my parents left me.

BDKJMU wrote:

kalm wrote:
According to CID 1990's Buchanon article 50,000 factories closed and 3,000,000 million manufacturing jobs were lost in the last decade due to free trade. That's not a good trend. You can be flippant all you want about inconsequential products, but with rising fuel costs, our debt, and the fact we have a natural resource and infrastructure advantage, those jobs and the wealth they create would come in real handy right now.

Free trade is a failure and an independent like you should at least appreciate the bipartisan nature of that.

That we fail to fully exploit.....

kalm wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
You know, we are still the largest manufacturing country in the world (obviously China is about to overtake us - I'm sure we're in the gray area where they may have or may not have, depending on your source) so it's not like we aren't making things. We don't make zippers and those little umbrellas that go into girlie cocktail drinks, but we do make a heckuva lot of stuff.

But post-WWII is always a terrible reference when trying to make economic parallels. More than half of the industrialized world (i.e. Europe) was literally decimated by war - our economy could do whatever it wanted because there was virtually no real competition. You could make a fortune building or designing or selling most anything because the rebuilding of the world meant the demand was huge and the competition was minimal. If we need a world war to get ahead of the spending we've buried ourselves in and continue to heap on top of ourselves then it really is doom and gloom times.

According to CID 1990's Buchanon article 50,000 factories closed and 3,000,000 million manufacturing jobs were lost in the last decade due to free trade. That's not a good trend. You can be flippant all you want about inconsequential products, but with rising fuel costs, our debt, and the fact we have a natural resource and infrastructure advantage, those jobs and the wealth they create would come in real handy right now.

Free trade is a failure and an independent like you should at least appreciate the bipartisan nature of that.

Nonsense. Your way of thinking regarding trade is a dead end street. You can't ignore the fact that we live in a pretty small world and that there are going to be other people out there who can make things. Blaming free trade for all our woes, and by corrallary (sp?), extolling that rolling back free trade would be the answer, is an idea without any merit or reality. You can't reset the clock to 1950/1960 and then stop the advance of time to cement America's role in the economic world. The issue of free trade is not the issue and it's never been the issue. What is the problem is how we do we compete in the free trade world that is reality. When we lose manufacturing jobs or factories, we lose them not because of an economic principle, we lose them because we weren't the best at making whatever product that place was making (and being the best includes everything, from product quality to delivery to cost to service - the whole enchilada). And, more importantly, we weren't making something that the consumer valued us making at those deliverables. You can say I'm flippant about the tiny umbrella's in a cocktail drink, but there's no denying the facts that 1) we can't get those tiny umbrella's to the customer as cheaply as someone else can and 2) the customer doesn't value our tiny umbrella over the next guy's. We've had this discussion time and time again - the way for a country like America to compete successfully in a world against cheaper competitors like China and so on is to follow the German model at its core - i.e., make something that no one else can easily make or reengineer and make something that the customers for that product will value. Germany isn't making tiny umbrellas for cocktail drinks. There's lots of ways we can go about doing that, and loosening the vice grip we have on immigration, most especially immigration of highly educated, technical people from other countries, would be a really good first step.

But blaming all our woes on the boogy man of free trade is like being an ostrich with its head in the ground. Get your head out of the hole, find something that no one can easily make, and start making it. If a company is innovative and dynamic and constantly improving itself, it will last and thrive in the free trade world we live in. Time to stop complaining and time to start competing.

kalm wrote:

BDKJMU wrote:
That we fail to fully exploit.....

Ok, so you complain about jobs being lost and then you smile at the fact that we don't fully exploit our natural resources that could provide 100s of thousands more jobs

BDKJMU wrote:

kalm wrote:

Ok, so you complain about jobs being lost and then you smile at the fact that we don't fully exploit our natural resources that could provide 100s of thousands more jobs

We don't exploit the resource advantage that we have. Shipping raw materials overseas to be manufactured into goods to be shipped back and sold here works well for the companies we allow to do it and there shareholders but is a drain on the overall wealth of our nation.

kalm wrote:

BDKJMU wrote:
Ok, so you complain about jobs being lost and then you smile at the fact that we don't fully exploit our natural resources that could provide 100s of thousands more jobs

We don't exploit the resource advantage that we have. Shipping raw materials overseas to be manufactured into goods to be shipped back and sold here works well for the companies we allow to do it and there shareholders but is a drain on the overall wealth of our nation.

It's only a drain on the unrealized wealth of our nation - but that's just a made up term and doesn't really apply. Become a shareholder of that company then, you can share in the wealth. That's allowed. And besides, someone needs to get find, set up, and remove the raw material from here, needs to transport it over land and then overseas, and then needs to transport it once it comes back, and a whole distribution network needs to be setup to handle that and sell it here. And then all those people involved pay a whole slew of taxes along the way. And the people that set the whole shebang up in the first place need to get funding to make it happen, and then have to pay that back with interest. Your's is a zero sum game of economics, which isn't reality.

kalm wrote:

BDKJMU wrote:
Ok, so you complain about jobs being lost and then you smile at the fact that we don't fully exploit our natural resources that could provide 100s of thousands more jobs

We don't exploit the resource advantage that we have. Shipping raw materials overseas to be manufactured into goods to be shipped back and sold here works well for the companies we allow to do it and there shareholders but is a drain on the overall wealth of our nation.

So why do companies do it? I doubt it is out of spite, but rather out of economic benefit. Who creates that benefit? Is it corruption, foreign espionage or competition with tax codes and regulations?

LeadBolt wrote:

kalm wrote:
We don't exploit the resource advantage that we have. Shipping raw materials overseas to be manufactured into goods to be shipped back and sold here works well for the companies we allow to do it and there shareholders but is a drain on the overall wealth of our nation.

So why do companies do it? I doubt it is out of spite, but rather out of economic benefit. Who creates that benefit? Is it corruption, foreign espionage or competition with tax codes and regulations?

Rational self interest is why they do it. The economic benefit is created when worthless, middle class, domestic workers want a bigger piece of the pie than they actually deserve.

I learned this from a narcissistic Russian whore who achieved Demi-god status.

kalm wrote:

BDKJMU wrote:
Ok, so you complain about jobs being lost and then you smile at the fact that we don't fully exploit our natural resources that could provide 100s of thousands more jobs

We don't exploit the resource advantage that we have. Shipping raw materials overseas to be manufactured into goods to be shipped back and sold here works well for the companies we allow to do it and there shareholders but is a drain on the overall wealth of our nation.

A bushel of wheat for a barrel of oil.