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A Citrus County tea party group has announced that it's fighting new restrictions on boating and other human activities in Kings Bay that have been proposed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

"We cannot elevate nature above people," explained Edna Mattos, 63, leader of the Citrus County Tea Party Patriots, in an interview. "That's against the Bible and the Bill of Rights."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/environmen ... ece#tpcccf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


"We believe that (federal regulators') aim is to control the fish and wildlife, in addition to the use of the land that surrounds this area, and the people that live here and visit. … As most of us know, this all ties in to the United Nations' Agenda 21 and Sustainability."

Agenda 21 is a program, adopted by the U.N. in 1992, to encourage countries around the world to promote only development that does not harm nature. Pundit Glenn Beck and other conservatives have attacked it as an attempt to impose world government's rules on every aspect of American lives. The Citrus County tea party group's website says Agenda 21 is "designed to make humans into livestock."

Mattos said she enjoys showing off the manatees to her grandchildren, but she had little use for the Save the Manatee Club, explaining, "If some of these environmental movements had been around in the days of the dinosaurs, we'd be living in Jurassic Park now."

The sad thing is that there are likely some legitimate arguments against expanding the sanctuary. But when you start bringing up UN conspiracies and the Bible, you diminish your case

Jeezus.

dbackjon wrote:The sad thing is that there are likely some legitimate arguments against expanding the sanctuary. But when you start bringing up UN conspiracies and the Bible, you diminish your case

worse yet.............

citing Glenn Beck

Any shred of credibility she had to begin with is gone

dbackjon wrote:The sad thing is that there are likely some legitimate arguments against expanding the sanctuary. But when you start bringing up UN conspiracies and the Bible, you diminish your case

Thing is, dback, that's EXACTLY what one has to do to get your average teabagger to turn off the latest NASCAR race and pay attention.

She's got this wrong. This isn't so much about what the Bible says as about what she who hasn't read the whole thing THINKS it says. She got about as far as where it says that man is elevated over the rest of Creation. What she's forgetting is that the Bible ALSO says that we are STEWARDS of Creation. That means that we are to care for it, not run roughshod over it. While there are SOME in the enviro-whacko movement that are overboard (like Gore and his ilk), the Bible does NOT let us off on animal abuse.

The sad thing is that there are likely some legitimate arguments against expanding the sanctuary. But when you start bringing up UN conspiracies and the Bible, you diminish your case

That's a bigotted statement. Especially the "Bible" part. Bigotry against a particular religous outlook.

Don't worry. We are all bigots at times. Anybody who says they have no bigotted outlooks is either lying or doesn't know what "bigot" means.

What she's forgetting is that the Bible ALSO says that we are STEWARDS of Creation.

Where does it say that? I'm not saying it doesn't. There's an awful lot in there. Also different translations.

In fact just recently it came to my attention that some relatively recent versions of the Bible I looked at have a slight difference in the way things are worded in a Chapter 2 of Genesis that eliminates a contradiction I'd noted in every previous version of the Bible I'd read. Made me wonder if somebody realized that it was an irreconcilable contradiction so somebody needed to change things a little in order to be able to say there's no contradictions.

But that's another story. The point is that sometimes what's "in the Bible" depends on the translation one reads.

As for the basic issue: I am an opponent of the Endangered Species Act. I don't think we should be making preventing species from going extinct a priority like that. And Manatees in particular are not that big a deal. If they go extinct it would not matter. It will make absolutely no difference in the grand scheme of things except that you won't be able to see a live Manatee anymore if for some reason you get the urge to do that.

You can't see a llive Do Do bird, passenger pigeon, or T. Rex either. You can't see live versions of any of the more than 99% of species that have existed on this planet but are now extinct. It's not the end of the world if a species goes extinct.

JohnStOnge wrote:As for the basic issue: I am an opponent of the Endangered Species Act. I don't think we should be making preventing species from going extinct a priority like that. And Manatees in particular are not that big a deal. If they go extinct it would not matter. It will make absolutely no difference in the grand scheme of things except that you won't be able to see a live Manatee anymore if for some reason you get the urge to do that.

You can't see a llive Do Do bird, passenger pigeon, or T. Rex either. You can't see live versions of any of the more than 99% of species that have existed on this planet but are now extinct. It's not the end of the world if a species goes extinct.

Personally, I'd like to preserve the world for future generations so they can experience and enjoy the different noises and sights we've been able to. Sure we don't have to save the manatee, but that's a defining characterist of us humans...the ability to care about other species instead of just our own. If we're not able to save species from going extinct, so be it, but we should at least try.

ps. I would LOVE to see a T. Rex or a Mammoth. Sure it's not the end of the world that I can't, but how awesome would it be? Pretty awesome...and that's worth it. Hopefully in my lifetime I'll be able to see at least a mammoth.

pps. Who cares about what the Bible says? It should have NOTHING to do with political policies, laws, and etc.

∞∞∞ wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:As for the basic issue: I am an opponent of the Endangered Species Act. I don't think we should be making preventing species from going extinct a priority like that. And Manatees in particular are not that big a deal. If they go extinct it would not matter. It will make absolutely no difference in the grand scheme of things except that you won't be able to see a live Manatee anymore if for some reason you get the urge to do that.

You can't see a llive Do Do bird, passenger pigeon, or T. Rex either. You can't see live versions of any of the more than 99% of species that have existed on this planet but are now extinct. It's not the end of the world if a species goes extinct.

Personally, I'd like to preserve the world for future generations so they can experience and enjoy the different noises and sights we've been able to. Sure we don't have to save the manatee, but that's a defining characterist of us humans...the ability to care about other species instead of just our own. If we're not able to save species from going extinct, so be it, but we should at least try.

ps. I would LOVE to see a T. Rex or a Mammoth. Sure it's not the end of the world that I can't, but how awesome would it be? Pretty awesome...and that's worth it. Hopefully in my lifetime I'll be able to see at least a mammoth.

pps. Who cares about what the Bible says? It should have NOTHING to do with political policies, laws, and etc.

Good post.

Cubed: You make a pretty good case until you get to the end. The basis of law for Western Civilization is the Bible, particularly much of the Ten Commandments. You know, don't take what's not yours, don't murder, things like that. We wouldn't know not to do those things were it not for the revelation of the Bible. Some may object to some of the things there, but for the basics like that, that's the basis of our society.

SuperHornet wrote:Cubed: You make a pretty good case until you get to the end. The basis of law for Western Civilization is the Bible, particularly much of the Ten Commandments. You know, don't take what's not yours, don't murder, things like that. We wouldn't know not to do those things were it not for the revelation of the Bible. Some may object to some of the things there, but for the basics like that, that's the basis of our society.

Simple stuff like that have been the basis of empires before the Bible came to be. You're acting as if laws against stealing, murdering, and etc. didn't exist before the Bible and other religious texts.

edit: and by your logic, wouldn't our country be based on Judaism and the Torah if it's particularly based on the Commandments?

SuperHornet wrote:Cubed: You make a pretty good case until you get to the end. The basis of law for Western Civilization is the Bible, particularly much of the Ten Commandments. You know, don't take what's not yours, don't murder, things like that. We wouldn't know not to do those things were it not for the revelation of the Bible. Some may object to some of the things there, but for the basics like that, that's the basis of our society.

You're a complete dipshit.

There's nothing revelatory about the bible. All the moral and ethical codes, at least the good ones, were promoted by other religions, political/economic systems and philosophers hundreds to thousands of years before Christianity.

The basis of all law is survival, period.

∞∞∞ wrote:

SuperHornet wrote:Cubed: You make a pretty good case until you get to the end. The basis of law for Western Civilization is the Bible, particularly much of the Ten Commandments. You know, don't take what's not yours, don't murder, things like that. We wouldn't know not to do those things were it not for the revelation of the Bible. Some may object to some of the things there, but for the basics like that, that's the basis of our society.

Simple stuff like that have been the basis of empires before the Bible came to be. You're acting as if laws against stealing, murdering, and etc. didn't exist before the Bible.

He's cherry picking too. Most of the bible is utter nonsense and patently evil. Some of the worst atrocities are actually performed and/or advocated by the god of the bible. That fuckhead loved rape, war, infanticide...you name it.

D1B wrote:He's cherry picking too. Most of the bible is utter nonsense and patently evil. Some of the worst atrocities are actually performed and/or advocated by the god of the bible. That fuckhead loved rape, war, infanticide...you name it.

I disagree. While I'm not religious, I definitely don't think it's "utter nonsense," and I can see its benefits for one's psyche. I think the Bible and friends have a lot to offer humanity as long as it's discussed and debated in a healthy and engaging way. The Bible is an amazing piece of art, and while I haven't read it all, if you keep an open-mind about what's in it, it does offer some deep thoughts about the world, humanity, good, evil, life, death, etc.

∞∞∞ wrote:

D1B wrote:He's cherry picking too. Most of the bible is utter nonsense and patently evil. Some of the worst atrocities are actually performed and/or advocated by the god of the bible. That fuckhead loved rape, war, infanticide...you name it.

I disagree. While I'm not religious, I definitely don't think it's "utter nonsense," and I can see its benefits for one's psyche. I think the Bible and friends have a lot to offer humanity as long as it's discussed and debated in a healthy and engaging way. The Bible is an amazing piece of art, and while I haven't read it all, if you keep an open-mind about what's in it, it does offer some deep thoughts about the world, humanity, good, evil, life, death, etc.

Name one "deep thought" contained in the bible.

D1B wrote:Name one "deep thought" contained in the bible.

D1B, I said "it offers some deep thoughts..." You as the reader (and human being) have to create those thoughts. Like other texts, the Bible is a direct challenge on your world view. It makes you think: Is there a God? Is there a soul? If I don't believe, will I be damned forever? It's exactly like any other philosophical text where the reader delves into the context and thinks about what parts of their perspective on the world is correct, wrong, and what they're unsure about and should be investigated further.

∞∞∞ wrote:

D1B wrote:Name one "deep thought" contained in the bible.

D1B, I said "it offers some deep thoughts..." You as the reader (and human being) have to create those thoughts. Like other texts, the Bible is a direct challenge on your world view. It makes you think: Is there a God? Is there a soul? If I don't believe, will I be damned forever? It's exactly like any other philosophical text where the reader delves into the context and thinks what parts of their perspective on the world is correct, wrong, and what they're unsure about and should be investigated further.

Still waiting for the deep thoughts.

∞∞∞ wrote:

D1B wrote:He's cherry picking too. Most of the bible is utter nonsense and patently evil. Some of the worst atrocities are actually performed and/or advocated by the god of the bible. That fuckhead loved rape, war, infanticide...you name it.

I disagree. While I'm not religious, I definitely don't think it's "utter nonsense," and I can see its benefits for one's psyche. I think the Bible and friends have a lot to offer humanity as long as it's discussed and debated in a healthy and engaging way. The Bible is an amazing piece of art, and while I haven't read it all, if you keep an open-mind about what's in it, it does offer some deep thoughts about the world, humanity, good, evil, life, death, etc.

It already appears, that there must be in every society of men superiors and inferiors, because God has laid in the constitution and course of nature the foundations of the distinction.

-- John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.

-- John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who have a right, from the frame of their nature, to knowledge, as their great Creator, who does nothing in vain, has given them understandings, and a desire to know; but besides this, they have a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge; I mean, of the characters and conduct of their rulers.

-- John Adams, Dissertation on Canon and Feudal Law, 1765

All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth-that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?"

-- Benjamin Franklin, To Colleagues at the Constitutional Convention

And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever.

-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 18, 1781

I have often expressed my sentiments, that every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.

-- George Washington, letter to the General Committee of the United Baptist Churches in Virginia, May, 1789

I now make it my earnest prayer, that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow Citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the Field, and finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all, to do Justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity, humility and pacific temper of mind, which were the Characteristicks of the Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy Nation.

-- George Washington, circular letter of farewell to the Army, June 8, 1783


And there's plenty more where that came from.
The blessed Religion revealed in the word of God will remain an eternal and awful monument to prove that the best Institution may be abused by human depravity; and that they may even, in some instances be made subservient to the vilest purposes. Should, hereafter, those incited by the lust of power and prompted by the Supineness or venality of their Constituents, overleap the known barriers of this Constitution and violate the unalienable rights of humanity: it will only serve to shew, that no compact among men (however provident in its construction and sacred in its ratification) can be pronounced everlasting an inviolable, and if I may so express myself, that no Wall of words, that no mound of parchm[en]t can be so formed as to stand against the sweeping torrent of boundless ambition on the side, aided by the sapping current of corrupted morals on the other.

-- George Washington, fragments of the Draft First Inaugural Address, April 1789

SuperHornet, I don't doubt our founding fathers believed in God, but I do doubt they were all Christians. I think they were men that thought for themselves. Look at the stuff you just quoted me, not a single quote mentions Christianity or the Bible, only God/Creator which is as generic as it gets...and not a single quote is attributed to official documents of the United States of America. The most telling tale is clearly our Constitution, the supreme law of the land, which has no single mention of a God, Creator, divinity, Christ, Bible, or etc. These men were radicals of their time...free thinkers that were able to seperate Church and State when it came to building a nation. Hell, the whole concept of the seperation of Church and State are widely attributed to one of our founding fathers (Thomas Jefferson).

Also, read the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, particularly Article 11:

...The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion...

You can't word it more directly if you tried. The treaty was created under George Washington's presidency but signed and ratifed under John Adam's. President John Adam himself read the whole document to Congress.

The survival of every living species is important, for the preservation of the genetic codes that are unique to each living thing. Genetic diversity is as a general rule a good thing.

Science is progressing at breakneck speed, we today are not capable of even begining to comprehend where science will take us in the next 50 to 100 years.

What if there is some special DNA code found ONLY in Manatee's that unlocks the ability to produce a vaccine for AIDS?

Oh fuck, I messed this one up...................

Now StupidHornet is gonna go to Florida himherself and slaughter every last one of those motherfuckers in a bloodbath like the Gulf Coast has never seen,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

∞∞∞ wrote:SuperHornet, I don't doubt our founding fathers believed in God, but I do doubt they were all Christians. I think they were men that thought for themselves. Look at the stuff you just quoted me, not a single quote mentions Christianity or the Bible, only God/Creator which is as generic as it gets...and not a single quote is attributed to official documents of the United States of America. The most telling tale is clearly our Constitution, the supreme law of the land, which has no single mention of a God, Creator, divinity, Christ, Bible, or etc. These men were radicals of their time...free thinkers that were able to seperate Church and State when it came to building a nation. Hell, the whole concept of the seperation of Church and State are widely attributed to one of our founding fathers (Thomas Jefferson).

Also, read the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, particularly Article 11:

...The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion...

You can't word it more directly if you tried. The treaty was created under George Washington's presidency but signed and ratifed under John Adam's. President John Adam himself read the whole document to Congress.

the phrase "separation of church and State" appear nowhere in the Constitution of the 'late united states'.

If there was a real Jurassic Park it'd be the #1 tourist attraction in the world. Let me see, go to Disney in Orlando & ride "It's a Small World", and drive the Safari through Animal Kingdom; or goto Jurassic Park & see a T-Rex feed for lunch? Seeing a T-Rex attack would be freaking awesome!!