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Memo from Barack Obama:

My Administration is committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government. We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration. Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government.

Government should be transparent. Transparency promotes accountability and provides information for citizens about what their Government is doing. Information maintained by the Federal Government is a national asset. My Administration will take appropriate action, consistent with law and policy, to disclose information rapidly in forms that the public can readily find and use.

Except when it suits him.

Publish the photos!!!

Z, I was right there with you, but Richard Clarke did a pretty good job of convincing me otherwise this evening on NewsHour. This is the best argument I've heard against. Move the slider to the six-minute mark and watch all the way through to the end. Several points are made that made me change my mind.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terroris ... 05-04.html

Z,

93henfan wrote:Z, I was right there with you, but Richard Clarke did a pretty good job of convincing me otherwise this evening on NewsHour. This is the best argument I've heard against. Move the slider to the six-minute mark and watch all the way through to the end. Several points are made that made me change my mind.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terroris ... 05-04.html

They had me right up until they started talking about "not wanting his daughters or other children" to see the pics". And then to claim some sort of "moral high ground" about releasing the pictures...come ON. We invaded a foreign country, violated their airspace, basically conducted an act of war on their soil, assassinated 5-6 people, and we're worried about violating some imaginary sense of moral high ground that we allegedly occupy by releasing a few photos?

I assumed you would laugh it off. Thanks for actually watching before doing so. I know PBS is kryptonite for you.

Catching the replay of O'Reilly right now, just to keep my brain fair and balanced.

93henfan wrote:I assumed you would laugh it off.

I listened with an open mind. Clarke had my attention with the whole "what problem would it solve" angle....but the whole "moral high ground" argument is an f-in' joke....don't you think?

93henfan wrote:I assumed you would laugh it off. Thanks for actually watching before doing so. I know PBS is kryptonite for you.

Actually I wasn't even aware it was PBS....

Damn, you're fast. I threw in two edits while you replied.

Speaking of transparency, I haven't seen Joe Biden in front of a live mic lately. What's up wit dat?

The Obama admin was also adamant about not using certain interrogation techniques. Circumstantially, things always have to change, and people have to do what is best.

AZGrizFan wrote:

93henfan wrote:Z, I was right there with you, but Richard Clarke did a pretty good job of convincing me otherwise this evening on NewsHour. This is the best argument I've heard against. Move the slider to the six-minute mark and watch all the way through to the end. Several points are made that made me change my mind.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terroris ... 05-04.html

They had me right up until they started talking about "not wanting his daughters or other children" to see the pics". And then to claim some sort of "moral high ground" about releasing the pictures...come ON. We invaded a foreign country, violated their airspace, basically conducted an act of war on their soil, assassinated 5-6 people, and we're worried about violating some imaginary sense of moral high ground that we allegedly occupy by releasing a few photos?

Would it have been better to just bomb the shit out of the place with a Predator strike and not worry about collateral damage? This had to be done at some point, and this was basically the most 'diplomatic' option available. Remember, the mission was officially 'kill or capture'; if, for some reason, bin Laden had been willing to surrender, they would've accepted it.

Grizalltheway wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
They had me right up until they started talking about "not wanting his daughters or other children" to see the pics". And then to claim some sort of "moral high ground" about releasing the pictures...come ON. We invaded a foreign country, violated their airspace, basically conducted an act of war on their soil, assassinated 5-6 people, and we're worried about violating some imaginary sense of moral high ground that we allegedly occupy by releasing a few photos?

Would it have been better to just bomb the shit out of the place with a Predator strike and not worry about collateral damage? This had to be done at some point, and this was basically the most 'diplomatic' option available. Remember, the mission was officially 'kill or capture'; if, for some reason, bin Laden had been willing to surrender, they would've accepted it.

Swing and miss. I'm ALL FOR the methodology we used. But to then step back onto some imaginary moral high ground regarding the release of the photos is fucking laughable. We have NO moral high ground here. We violated about 10 international laws (which again, I'm fine with)....so to make a stand on release of the photos is disingenuous.

93henfan wrote:Damn, you're fast. I threw in two edits while you replied.

100 wpm, baby.

How do you think I got to a combined 40,000 posts between here, AGS and egriz?

I'm ambivalent about it.

I can think of many good reasons not to release them and many more good reasons to do so. I disagree with many of the administration's points, though. There is no moral high ground to take here, in my opinion. I would prefer if they just said that they do not want to inflame others into attacking our overseas service people and leave it at that (also disingenuous, but more palatable).

Obama has no problem with having the media display the coffins of US service members, and he has no problems with airing out more than 1,500 pictures taken at Abu Ghraib, so to say that we won't be releasing the Bin Laden Room Temp pictures because we don't want to upset anyone is a little bit hypocritical. They really should pick a different reason for not releasing the pics and just leave it at that. Take the credit you deserve and try not to fvck it up by giving lame reasons for not "spiking the ball in the end zone".

Personally, I believe we got him. I like the thought that he was up in that room, heard the SEALS moving about downstairs, and knowing that at any second his bedroom door was going to be kicked in. His family watched him die. I like that, too. At least they won't have to see it over and over and over again like the families who get treated to the footage of the towers coming down on 9-11.

NOW... let's find the remains of that helicopter and get it back from the Pakis, and if they refused to hand it over, then it's Predator time. Otherwise it will be in Beijing by the end of the wekk and that's fo sho.

Z would be the first one to condemn Obama for releasing the photos. Typical fuckhead conk and primary reason America sucks.

D1B wrote:Z would be the first one to condemn Obama for releasing the photos. Typical fuckhead conk and primary reason America sucks.

America doesn't suck. You do. Move to Amsterdam you fat, lazy dope (and pole) smoking commie.

93henfan wrote:Speaking of transparency, I haven't seen Joe Biden in front of a live mic lately. What's up wit dat?

He's snoozin'.

CID1990 wrote:I'm ambivalent about it.

I can think of many good reasons not to release them and many more good reasons to do so. I disagree with many of the administration's points, though. There is no moral high ground to take here, in my opinion. I would prefer if they just said that they do not want to inflame others into attacking our overseas service people and leave it at that (also disingenuous, but more palatable).

Obama has no problem with having the media display the coffins of US service members, and he has no problems with airing out more than 1,500 pictures taken at Abu Ghraib, so to say that we won't be releasing the Bin Laden Room Temp pictures because we don't want to upset anyone is a little bit hypocritical. They really should pick a different reason for not releasing the pics and just leave it at that. Take the credit you deserve and try not to fvck it up by giving lame reasons for not "spiking the ball in the end zone".

Personally, I believe we got him. I like the thought that he was up in that room, heard the SEALS moving about downstairs, and knowing that at any second his bedroom door was going to be kicked in. His family watched him die. I like that, too. At least they won't have to see it over and over and over again like the families who get treated to the footage of the towers coming down on 9-11.

NOW... let's find the remains of that helicopter and get it back from the Pakis, and if they refused to hand it over, then it's Predator time. Otherwise it will be in Beijing by the end of the wekk and that's fo sho.

Ditto.

native wrote:

CID1990 wrote:I'm ambivalent about it.

I can think of many good reasons not to release them and many more good reasons to do so. I disagree with many of the administration's points, though. There is no moral high ground to take here, in my opinion. I would prefer if they just said that they do not want to inflame others into attacking our overseas service people and leave it at that (also disingenuous, but more palatable).

Obama has no problem with having the media display the coffins of US service members, and he has no problems with airing out more than 1,500 pictures taken at Abu Ghraib, so to say that we won't be releasing the Bin Laden Room Temp pictures because we don't want to upset anyone is a little bit hypocritical. They really should pick a different reason for not releasing the pics and just leave it at that. Take the credit you deserve and try not to fvck it up by giving lame reasons for not "spiking the ball in the end zone".

Personally, I believe we got him. I like the thought that he was up in that room, heard the SEALS moving about downstairs, and knowing that at any second his bedroom door was going to be kicked in. His family watched him die. I like that, too. At least they won't have to see it over and over and over again like the families who get treated to the footage of the towers coming down on 9-11.

NOW... let's find the remains of that helicopter and get it back from the Pakis, and if they refused to hand it over, then it's Predator time. Otherwise it will be in Beijing by the end of the wekk and that's fo sho.

Ditto.

If it ends up in Beijing I guess we'll know for sure which side Pakistan is on.

Compared to this White House, the Clintons' "transparency" was positively crystalline!

AZGrizFan wrote:

native wrote:
Ditto.

If it ends up in Beijing I guess we'll know for sure which side Pakistan is on.

It is well known that the Pakistani military and the ChiComs are close. Those pieces are probably on their way as we speak.

CID1990 wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
If it ends up in Beijing I guess we'll know for sure which side Pakistan is on.

It is well known that the Pakistani military and the ChiComs are close. Those pieces are probably on their way as we speak.

Well then, that $3.8 billion aid check ought to have a stop payment put on it.

AZGrizFan wrote:

CID1990 wrote:
It is well known that the Pakistani military and the ChiComs are close. Those pieces are probably on their way as we speak.

Well then, that $3.8 billion aid check ought to have a stop payment put on it.

I'd say that should have stopped about 5 months ago when we learned OBL was doing his grocery shopping in Abbottabad.

AZGrizFan wrote:Memo from Barack Obama:

My Administration is committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government. We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration. Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government.

Government should be transparent. Transparency promotes accountability and provides information for citizens about what their Government is doing. Information maintained by the Federal Government is a national asset. My Administration will take appropriate action, consistent with law and policy, to disclose information rapidly in forms that the public can readily find and use.

Except when it suits him.

Publish the photos!!!

Conk dork.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:Memo from Barack Obama:



Except when it suits him.

Publish the photos!!!

Conk dork.

You are gettin' slow, old man.