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How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:56 pm
by AZGrizFan
Food for thought:
How Long Do We Have?
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier: "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot
exist as a permanent form of government."
"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." "From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship." "The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years."
"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. >From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage"
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamlin University School of Law, St. Paul , Minnesota , points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:
Number of States won by: Gore: 19; Bush: 29 Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000; Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143 million; Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2; Bush: 2.1. Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Gore's
territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."
Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.
I'd say we're firmly into the depndency phase, and give the country about 30 more years. Less if we continue electing democrats (which, by the logic of this article, we will).
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:01 pm
by dbackjon
Yawn...
Take your fear-mongering elsewhere...
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:18 pm
by AZGrizFan
dbackjon wrote:Yawn...
Take your fear-mongering elsewhere...
Take your head out of your ass and ADMIT what's happening here, jon. You KNOW it's true...
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:24 pm
by dbackjon
AZGrizFan wrote:dbackjon wrote:Yawn...
Take your fear-mongering elsewhere...
Take your head out of your ass and ADMIT what's happening here, jon. You KNOW it's true...
you and professor Olson can do a circle jerk together...
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:27 pm
by dbackjon
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:28 pm
by dbackjon
Actually, Professor Olson thinks you're a stupid jackass for posting this...
http://law.hamline.edu/node/784
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:22 pm
by Appaholic
Z?....Z?....where'd you go dude?.........(ouch!)
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:23 pm
by Appaholic
AZGrizFan wrote:dbackjon wrote:Yawn...
Take your fear-mongering elsewhere...
Take your head out of your ass and ADMIT what's happening here, jon. You KNOW it's true...
What do Republicans know about truth?
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:13 pm
by AZGrizFan
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:13 pm
by AZGrizFan
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:26 am
by Appaholic
You better KEEP working to pay off nevitable higher taxes from the $700billion pushed through by your Republicans with no oversight......but, I'm glad they are taking a principled stand on the $25billion auto loan....I mean, without that, they'd have to leave Iraq 3mos earlier....
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:31 am
by Cap'n Cat
Oh, this reply will definitely go down in the annals of sensible debate.
Come on, Z. That article is trash.
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:32 am
by D1B
AZ?
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:25 am
by AZGrizFan
Cap'n Cat wrote:
Oh, this reply will definitely go down in the annals of sensible debate.
Come on, Z. That article is trash.
Arent' YOU the one constantly claiming America is in decline? How can this article be trash then? The premise is true....we're approaching midnight in the lifecycle of our democracy. But let's all just stand around and sing Kumbayah?
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:35 am
by Cap'n Cat
AZGrizFan wrote:
Arent' YOU the one constantly claiming America is in decline? How can this article be trash then? The premise is true....we're approaching midnight in the lifecycle of our democracy. But let's all just stand around and sing Kumbayah?
The country ain't declining for that sh*t.
The decline I'm talking about was precipitated by Dubya and his Wehrmacht.
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:40 am
by Col Hogan
So am I to assume we've been "saved" since Bush is on his way out?
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:25 pm
by Cap'n Cat
Honestly, I don't care. I'm all politicked out. Screamin', lyin', deceivin'.
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:52 pm
by Gil Dobie
Cap'n Cat wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
Arent' YOU the one constantly claiming America is in decline? How can this article be trash then? The premise is true....we're approaching midnight in the lifecycle of our democracy. But let's all just stand around and sing Kumbayah?
The country ain't declining for that sh*t.
The decline I'm talking about was precipitated by Dubya and his Wehrmacht.
Dubya is responsible for the decline of another message board also. Daym big brother watching everyones post, checking them twice. Finding out whos naughty and who's nice. Got to keep those conks off the mod list, so the main conk can control the posting on that board.
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:55 pm
by dbackjon
Gil Dobie wrote:Cap'n Cat wrote:
The country ain't declining for that sh*t.
The decline I'm talking about was precipitated by Dubya and his Wehrmacht.
Dubya is responsible for the decline of another message board also. Daym big brother watching everyones post, checking them twice. Finding out whos naughty and who's nice. Got to keep those conks off the mod list, so the main conk can control the posting on that board.
Nah, That is Senator Franken's job
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:58 pm
by Gil Dobie
dbackjon wrote:Dubya is responsible for the decline of another message board also. Daym big brother watching everyones post, checking them twice. Finding out whos naughty and who's nice. Got to keep those conks off the mod list, so the main conk can control the posting on that board.
Nah, That is Senator Franken's job[/quote]
I believe you
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:10 pm
by dbackjon
LOL
Re: How Long Does America Have?
Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:14 am
by lifesapuntreturn
AZGrizFan wrote:Food for thought:
How Long Do We Have?
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier: "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot
exist as a permanent form of government."
"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." "From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship." "The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years."
"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. >From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage"
I'd say we're firmly into the depndency phase, and give the country about 30 more years. Less if we continue electing democrats (which, by the logic of this article, we will).
As a country, we are now in step 6 and rapidly moving into step 7, imho.
The question is whether we continue to slide into step 8 or whether we wake up and decide enough is enough. Call it step "7.5, from dependence to awareness". If we were 15-20 years ago, prior to the beginning of the so-called "information age" that we are in now, I'd say we may not make it to step 7.5, that we would slide directly to step 8 before people woke up and it would be too late.
However, we are in the present and that means every American has more access to current events information than ever before, both in terms of speed of access to information and volume of information. As a result, maybe, just maybe, enough people will begin to pay attention to what is actually happening and what the consequences of what is happening will mean to them and future generations and will wake up in time to put a stop to it and get things turned around.
Personally, I don't think we will save ourselves. I think there are a lot of people who will choose to continue to avoid reality thinking it will "just work out" - the willfully ignorant people. They take the approach that they are too busy to pay attention or they think they can't do anything about it anyway, that their future is inevitable so they just don't bother to care. I think that by the time these people finally wake up, we will be beyond the point of return and will be so close to step 8 that it will be too late.
For a country that had it all, at the rate we're going and with the apathetic and/or ignorant attitude displayed by many even when faced with the facts about current events, I think we will spend so much time pointing fingers at each other that we will not spend enough time solving the problem and pulling ourselves out of it. A pretty bleak assessment but it's what I see happening given what I see and hear from people now.
For those who haven't read it, pick up a copy of "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. As you're reading it, see how many parallels you see between that book, written 50 years ago, and the current events of today. It will amaze you.
