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When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:59 am
by kalm
TR's ideals laid the ground work for a thriving middle class. Guys like TR, Ike, and later in life - Goldwater were real Repbulicans. You guys should take note. :ohno:


“The Constitution guarantees protections to property, and we must make that promise good,” Roosevelt noted. “But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation.”

We must “prohibit the use of corporate funds directly or indirectly for political purposes,” TR enunciated, and hold corporate officials “personally responsible when any corporation breaks the law.”

Again and again, Roosevelt urged his listeners to demand state “and, especially, national, restraint upon unfair money-getting.” The absence of that restraint, he noted, “has tended to create a small class of enormously wealthy and economically powerful men, whose chief object is to hold and increase their power.”

But TR didn’t stop there. Restraining fortunes based on “unfair money-getting” had to be only a first step. A fortune “gained without doing damage to the community,” he added, deserves no praise. Americans needed to set a higher standard. We should permit fortunes “to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community.”

And even those fortunes, Roosevelt added, needed to be checked, because the “really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size acquires qualities” that “differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means,” qualities that help ensure the “political domination of money.”
Published on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 by CommonDreams.org
The August Day Plutocracy Would Love Us to Forget
Today marks the 100th anniversary of the most ‘radical speech’ an American ex-President has ever delivered.
by Chuck Collins and Sam Pizzigati

Ex-Presidents almost always follow a small number of well-worn scripts. Some rush to cash in on their celebrity. Some do charitable good deeds. Some just lay low.

Exactly one century ago, on August 31, 1910, we had an ex-President who took a brash and bold leap that took him far beyond these narrowly circumscribed roles. On that day, in the middle of Middle America, a former President — Theodore Roosevelt — essentially called on his fellow citizens to smash the nation’s rich down to democratic size.

We need, Roosevelt told a massive assembly of 30,000 listeners, to “destroy privilege.” Ruin for our democracy, he warned, will be “inevitable if our national life brings us nothing better than swollen fortunes for the few.”

Those listeners — in Osawatomie, Kansas — roared their approval. Back East, apologists for grand fortune would be aghast. Editorial writers would label Roosevelt “frankly socialistic,” even “anarchistic.” A later historian, George Mowry, would call TR’s talk, soon to be known as his “New Nationalism” address, ”the most radical speech ever given by an ex-President.”

Time hasn’t dimmed that radicalism. Indeed, TR’s speech speaks powerfully to us today, mainly because we confront, a hundred years after he spoke in Osawatomie, the same concentrated wealth and power that TR so feared.

As President, between 1901 and early 1909, Roosevelt had taken on a plutocracy just as entrenched as ours today. He won some battles and ducked many others. But he left the White House feeling the nation, under his successor William Howard Taft, would be headed in the right direction.

But Taft disappointed Roosevelt and outraged the progressive wing of Roosevelt’s Republican Party. TR saw a burning need to spell out a clearer vision for his nation’s future, and he jumped at the invitation from Osawatomie to help dedicate the historic small city’s John Brown Memorial Park.

The event quickly figured to be the biggest in Kansas political history. Roosevelt had just finished a triumphal global tour. He ranked, observers agreed, as the “world’s most popular citizen.”

Kansans would pull out all the stops to set the stage for a memorable speech. By the appointed day, Osawatomie had never looked better. Bands and dignitaries would be everywhere.

“We are ready for plutocrat and peasant,” wrote one local editor, “to honor the ground where John Brown made his decisive stand for freedom.”

Plutocrats never did show. But average Kansans did. They started coming the day before TR’s scheduled appearance, in a driving rain, via “foot, bicycles, motors, buggies, wagons, trains.”

The rain, fortunately, would stop before the mud became too deep. Roosevelt would have open skies when he stepped up onto his podium, a kitchen table, to begin his address. The “surging throng,” says historian Robert La Forte, “continually cheered” for the next hour and a half.

Most Americans today would cheer, too. Are you outraged by the BP oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico? Our national resources, Roosevelt pronounced, “must be used for the benefit of all our people, and not monopolized for the benefit of the few.”

Think corporations wield too much clout?

“The Constitution guarantees protections to property, and we must make that promise good,” Roosevelt noted. “But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation.”

We must “prohibit the use of corporate funds directly or indirectly for political purposes,” TR enunciated, and hold corporate officials “personally responsible when any corporation breaks the law.”

Again and again, Roosevelt urged his listeners to demand state “and, especially, national, restraint upon unfair money-getting.” The absence of that restraint, he noted, “has tended to create a small class of enormously wealthy and economically powerful men, whose chief object is to hold and increase their power.”

But TR didn’t stop there. Restraining fortunes based on “unfair money-getting” had to be only a first step. A fortune “gained without doing damage to the community,” he added, deserves no praise. Americans needed to set a higher standard. We should permit fortunes “to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community.”

And even those fortunes, Roosevelt added, needed to be checked, because the “really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size acquires qualities” that “differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means,” qualities that help ensure the “political domination of money.”

To check the growth and limit the power of these fortunes, Roosevelt called for a progressive income tax and an “inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion and increasing rapidly in amount with the sizes of the estate.”

Three years after TR’s Osawatomie speech, we would have an income tax in the United States. Six years later after Osawatomie, we would have an estate tax. By the middle of the 20th century, many of the corporate regulatory reforms that Roosevelt demanded on that August day a century ago would be the law of the land.

By that mid century, the plutocracy that Roosevelt decried had essentially disappeared. The United States had become a middle class nation where average workers, as TR envisioned in 1910, had “a wage more than sufficient to cover the bare cost of living, and hours of labor short enough” to leave them “time and energy” to bear their “share in the management of the community.”

Now that mid 20th century middle class has disappeared. We live amid plutocracy once again. In fact, 2010 marks the first year since 1916 that we don’t even have an estate tax on the books. The heirs of the super rich can this year inherit billions in inheritance totally tax-free.

A hundred years ago, Theodore Roosevelt refused to accept these sorts of concentrations of enormous wealth. At Osawatomie, he helped inspire a generation-long struggle to break up these concentrations. That struggle succeeded.

Our struggle has only just begun. We can succeed, too.

Chuck Collins, a senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies, is the co-author, with Bill Gates Sr. of Wealth and Our Commonwealth: Why America Should Tax Accumulated Fortunes. Sam Pizzigati, an Institute associate fellow, edits Too Much, an online weekly on excess and inequality.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/08/31-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:03 am
by AZGrizFan
kalm wrote:We need, Roosevelt told a massive assembly of 30,000 listeners, to “destroy privilege.” Ruin for our democracy, he warned, will be “inevitable if our national life brings us nothing better than swollen fortunes for the few.”
While I agree with much of what TR had to say, I think here he had it ass-backwards. Ruin for our democracy will be inevitable when voters realize they can perform wealth redistribution through granting themselves largesse from the public treasury.

And Kalm....I know you don't want to admit it, and you constantly try to claim you're a centrist....but dude. Give up the charade. You're a card carryin' donk and you KNOW it.

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:05 am
by CitadelGrad
It was Democrats who gave us the Federal Reserve Act and Bretton Woods. Cocksuckers.

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:16 am
by Cap'n Cat
AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:We need, Roosevelt told a massive assembly of 30,000 listeners, to “destroy privilege.” Ruin for our democracy, he warned, will be “inevitable if our national life brings us nothing better than swollen fortunes for the few.”
While I agree with much of what TR had to say, I think here he had it ass-backwards. Ruin for our democracy will be inevitable when voters realize they can perform wealth redistribution through granting themselves largesse from the public treasury.

And Kalm....I know you don't want to admit it, and you constantly try to claim you're a centrist....but dude. Give up the charade. You're a card carryin' donk and you KNOW it.

As much as you're a card-carrying teabagger, Z!

He's right and your shit about wealth distribution coming from the public tit is just the kind of radical, scare tactic guano you and your Conk cohorts live by and will eventually die by. You want to maintain your cushy desert mansion with the three Escalades and the Olympic-size pool with 14 Mexican gardeners bowing and curtsying at your every whim.

Your people have failed us and the time has already begun in which your type will be brought to justice.

And the revolution WILL be televised, bitch! On Al Jazeera, too!

Image
"Honey? The ground motion detection system is indicating that either a niqqer or a wetback has stepped on the property back by the Maserati garage. Will you please phone John McCain about it?"

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:16 am
by Skjellyfetti
Teddy was the fucking MAN!

Reading this right now.
Image

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:17 am
by Cap'n Cat
Skjellyfetti wrote:Teddy was the fucking MAN!

I blew him in the bathroom of a Havana bar.

:oops:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:19 am
by AZGrizFan
Cap'n Cat wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
While I agree with much of what TR had to say, I think here he had it ass-backwards. Ruin for our democracy will be inevitable when voters realize they can perform wealth redistribution through granting themselves largesse from the public treasury.

And Kalm....I know you don't want to admit it, and you constantly try to claim you're a centrist....but dude. Give up the charade. You're a card carryin' donk and you KNOW it.

As much as you're a card-carrying teabagger, Z!

He's right and your shit about wealth distribution coming from the public tit is just the kind of radical, scare tactic guano you and your Conk cohorts live by and will eventually die by. You want to maintain your cushy desert mansion with the three Escalades and the Olympic-size pool with 14 Mexican gardeners bowing and curtsying at your every whim.

Your people have failed us and the time has already begun in which your type will be brought to justice.

And the revolution WILL be televised, bitch! On Al Jazeera, too!

Image
"Honey? The ground motion detection system is indicating that either a niqqer or a wetback has stepped on the property back by the Maserati garage. Will you please phone John McCain about it?"
Yep. You've SURE got me pegged. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:19 am
by CitadelGrad
Skjellyfetti wrote:Teddy was the fucking MAN!
He was also one of the architects of American imperialism.

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:34 am
by Col Hogan
CitadelGrad wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:Teddy was the **** MAN!
He was also one of the architects of American imperialism.
An inconvenient truth... :nod:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:02 am
by Skjellyfetti
CitadelGrad wrote:
He was also one of the architects of American imperialism.
One of the architects? No.

US in 1789:
Image

US in 1900 (Teddy became President in 1901):
Image



American imperialism existed long before Roosevelt and is an inconvenient truth of our entire history. Good to see Conks jumping on the "American imperialism" critiquing bandwagon, though. :nod:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:22 am
by Cap'n Cat
AZGrizFan wrote:
Cap'n Cat wrote:

As much as you're a card-carrying teabagger, Z!

He's right and your shit about wealth distribution coming from the public tit is just the kind of radical, scare tactic guano you and your Conk cohorts live by and will eventually die by. You want to maintain your cushy desert mansion with the three Escalades and the Olympic-size pool with 14 Mexican gardeners bowing and curtsying at your every whim.

Your people have failed us and the time has already begun in which your type will be brought to justice.

And the revolution WILL be televised, bitch! On Al Jazeera, too!

Image
"Honey? The ground motion detection system is indicating that either a niqqer or a wetback has stepped on the property back by the Maserati garage. Will you please phone John McCain about it?"
Yep. You've SURE got me pegged. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :kisswink: :kisswink: :kisswink:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:44 am
by Appaholic
kalm wrote:TR's ideals laid the ground work for a thriving middle class. Guys like TR, Ike, and later in life - Goldwater were real conservatives. You guys should take note. :ohno:
fify

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:49 am
by Cap'n Cat
I read a biography of Barry Goldwater a couple years ago and came away with much admiration for the guy. KEY DIFFERENCE between he and current Conks - he was not a bully, he shied away from underhanded politics AND he didn't push his religion on people and despised those who did. A thoroughly honest guy, unlike all his Cro-Magnon Conk decendents.

He and Bush One are the only Conks I enjoy.

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:09 am
by Baldy
Skjellyfetti wrote:
CitadelGrad wrote:
He was also one of the architects of American imperialism.
One of the architects? No.

US in 1789:
Image

US in 1900 (Teddy became President in 1901):
Image



American imperialism existed long before Roosevelt and is an inconvenient truth of our entire history. Good to see Conks jumping on the "American imperialism" critiquing bandwagon, though. :nod:
And Manifest Destiny was a Conk philosophy. :roll: :tothehand:

For claiming to be a student of history, you don't know very much about it. :ohno:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:14 am
by Baldy
Appaholic wrote:
kalm wrote:TR's ideals laid the ground work for a thriving middle class. Guys like TR, Ike, and later in life - Goldwater were real conservatives. You guys should take note. :ohno:
fify
Sorry, Teddy R. was no conservative.
In today's terminology, he is Obama light, or a John McCain type of Republican. Good in a few aspects, but horrible in many others.

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:39 am
by Cap'n Cat
Baldy wrote:
Appaholic wrote:
fify
Sorry, Teddy R. was no conservative.
In today's terminology, he is Obama light, or a John McCain type of Republican. Good in a few aspects, but horrible in many others.

Man, Baldy, there ain't a man or woman alive or dead you'd give a scintilla of respect, is there? Besides Rush Limbaugh and Timothy McVeigh, or that buffoon, Reagan.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:21 pm
by Skjellyfetti
Baldy wrote:
And Manifest Destiny was a Conk philosophy. :roll: :tothehand:

For claiming to be a student of history, you don't know very much about it. :ohno:
I didn't say Manifest Destiny was a Conk philosophy. :roll: Pretty sure I said it was an "inconvenient truth" of our country's past. Every President, every Congress, etc. had a role to play.

I was talking about Conks on this board coming around to criticizing American imperialism. Wouldn't have expected dyed-in-the-wool conservatives like Col. Hogan and CitadelGrad to criticize American imperialism. Glad to see it, though. :thumb: :nod:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:32 pm
by Baldy
Skjellyfetti wrote:
Baldy wrote:
And Manifest Destiny was a Conk philosophy. :roll: :tothehand:

For claiming to be a student of history, you don't know very much about it. :ohno:
I didn't say Manifest Destiny was a Conk philosophy. :roll: Pretty sure I said it was an "inconvenient truth" of our country's past. Every President, every Congress, etc. had a role to play.

I was talking about Conks on this board coming around to criticizing American imperialism. Wouldn't have expected dyed-in-the-wool conservatives like Col. Hogan and CitadelGrad to criticize American imperialism. Glad to see it, though. :thumb: :nod:
American Imperialism? That is more of an oxymoron than anything else.
So what people, colonies, and strange lands make up this so-called vast "American Empire"? :?

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:33 pm
by Baldy
Cap'n Cat wrote:
Baldy wrote:
Sorry, Teddy R. was no conservative.
In today's terminology, he is Obama light, or a John McCain type of Republican. Good in a few aspects, but horrible in many others.

Man, Baldy, there ain't a man or woman alive or dead you'd give a scintilla of respect, is there? Besides Rush Limbaugh and Timothy McVeigh, or that buffoon, Reagan.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Just calling a spade a spade. :thumb:

Besides, respect is earned, not given. :nod:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:36 pm
by CitadelGrad
Skjellyfetti wrote:
Baldy wrote:
And Manifest Destiny was a Conk philosophy. :roll: :tothehand:

For claiming to be a student of history, you don't know very much about it. :ohno:
I didn't say Manifest Destiny was a Conk philosophy. :roll: Pretty sure I said it was an "inconvenient truth" of our country's past. Every President, every Congress, etc. had a role to play.

I was talking about Conks on this board coming around to criticizing American imperialism. Wouldn't have expected dyed-in-the-wool conservatives like Col. Hogan and CitadelGrad to criticize American imperialism. Glad to see it, though. :thumb: :nod:
I'm tired of telling your this, but I'm not a Conk. You just don't fucking listen, do you?

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:46 pm
by BigSkyBears
kalm wrote:TR's ideals laid the ground work for a thriving middle class. Guys like TR, Ike, and later in life - Goldwater were real Repbulicans. You guys should take note. :ohno:


“The Constitution guarantees protections to property, and we must make that promise good,” Roosevelt noted. “But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation.”

We must “prohibit the use of corporate funds directly or indirectly for political purposes,” TR enunciated, and hold corporate officials “personally responsible when any corporation breaks the law.”

Again and again, Roosevelt urged his listeners to demand state “and, especially, national, restraint upon unfair money-getting.” The absence of that restraint, he noted, “has tended to create a small class of enormously wealthy and economically powerful men, whose chief object is to hold and increase their power.”

But TR didn’t stop there. Restraining fortunes based on “unfair money-getting” had to be only a first step. A fortune “gained without doing damage to the community,” he added, deserves no praise. Americans needed to set a higher standard. We should permit fortunes “to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community.”

And even those fortunes, Roosevelt added, needed to be checked, because the “really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size acquires qualities” that “differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means,” qualities that help ensure the “political domination of money.”
Published on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 by CommonDreams.org
The August Day Plutocracy Would Love Us to Forget
Today marks the 100th anniversary of the most ‘radical speech’ an American ex-President has ever delivered.
by Chuck Collins and Sam Pizzigati

Ex-Presidents almost always follow a small number of well-worn scripts. Some rush to cash in on their celebrity. Some do charitable good deeds. Some just lay low.

Exactly one century ago, on August 31, 1910, we had an ex-President who took a brash and bold leap that took him far beyond these narrowly circumscribed roles. On that day, in the middle of Middle America, a former President — Theodore Roosevelt — essentially called on his fellow citizens to smash the nation’s rich down to democratic size.

We need, Roosevelt told a massive assembly of 30,000 listeners, to “destroy privilege.” Ruin for our democracy, he warned, will be “inevitable if our national life brings us nothing better than swollen fortunes for the few.”

Those listeners — in Osawatomie, Kansas — roared their approval. Back East, apologists for grand fortune would be aghast. Editorial writers would label Roosevelt “frankly socialistic,” even “anarchistic.” A later historian, George Mowry, would call TR’s talk, soon to be known as his “New Nationalism” address, ”the most radical speech ever given by an ex-President.”

Time hasn’t dimmed that radicalism. Indeed, TR’s speech speaks powerfully to us today, mainly because we confront, a hundred years after he spoke in Osawatomie, the same concentrated wealth and power that TR so feared.

As President, between 1901 and early 1909, Roosevelt had taken on a plutocracy just as entrenched as ours today. He won some battles and ducked many others. But he left the White House feeling the nation, under his successor William Howard Taft, would be headed in the right direction.

But Taft disappointed Roosevelt and outraged the progressive wing of Roosevelt’s Republican Party. TR saw a burning need to spell out a clearer vision for his nation’s future, and he jumped at the invitation from Osawatomie to help dedicate the historic small city’s John Brown Memorial Park.

The event quickly figured to be the biggest in Kansas political history. Roosevelt had just finished a triumphal global tour. He ranked, observers agreed, as the “world’s most popular citizen.”

Kansans would pull out all the stops to set the stage for a memorable speech. By the appointed day, Osawatomie had never looked better. Bands and dignitaries would be everywhere.

“We are ready for plutocrat and peasant,” wrote one local editor, “to honor the ground where John Brown made his decisive stand for freedom.”

Plutocrats never did show. But average Kansans did. They started coming the day before TR’s scheduled appearance, in a driving rain, via “foot, bicycles, motors, buggies, wagons, trains.”

The rain, fortunately, would stop before the mud became too deep. Roosevelt would have open skies when he stepped up onto his podium, a kitchen table, to begin his address. The “surging throng,” says historian Robert La Forte, “continually cheered” for the next hour and a half.

Most Americans today would cheer, too. Are you outraged by the BP oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico? Our national resources, Roosevelt pronounced, “must be used for the benefit of all our people, and not monopolized for the benefit of the few.”

Think corporations wield too much clout?

“The Constitution guarantees protections to property, and we must make that promise good,” Roosevelt noted. “But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation.”

We must “prohibit the use of corporate funds directly or indirectly for political purposes,” TR enunciated, and hold corporate officials “personally responsible when any corporation breaks the law.”

Again and again, Roosevelt urged his listeners to demand state “and, especially, national, restraint upon unfair money-getting.” The absence of that restraint, he noted, “has tended to create a small class of enormously wealthy and economically powerful men, whose chief object is to hold and increase their power.”

But TR didn’t stop there. Restraining fortunes based on “unfair money-getting” had to be only a first step. A fortune “gained without doing damage to the community,” he added, deserves no praise. Americans needed to set a higher standard. We should permit fortunes “to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community.”

And even those fortunes, Roosevelt added, needed to be checked, because the “really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size acquires qualities” that “differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means,” qualities that help ensure the “political domination of money.”

To check the growth and limit the power of these fortunes, Roosevelt called for a progressive income tax and an “inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion and increasing rapidly in amount with the sizes of the estate.”

Three years after TR’s Osawatomie speech, we would have an income tax in the United States. Six years later after Osawatomie, we would have an estate tax. By the middle of the 20th century, many of the corporate regulatory reforms that Roosevelt demanded on that August day a century ago would be the law of the land.

By that mid century, the plutocracy that Roosevelt decried had essentially disappeared. The United States had become a middle class nation where average workers, as TR envisioned in 1910, had “a wage more than sufficient to cover the bare cost of living, and hours of labor short enough” to leave them “time and energy” to bear their “share in the management of the community.”

Now that mid 20th century middle class has disappeared. We live amid plutocracy once again. In fact, 2010 marks the first year since 1916 that we don’t even have an estate tax on the books. The heirs of the super rich can this year inherit billions in inheritance totally tax-free.

A hundred years ago, Theodore Roosevelt refused to accept these sorts of concentrations of enormous wealth. At Osawatomie, he helped inspire a generation-long struggle to break up these concentrations. That struggle succeeded.

Our struggle has only just begun. We can succeed, too.

Chuck Collins, a senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies, is the co-author, with Bill Gates Sr. of Wealth and Our Commonwealth: Why America Should Tax Accumulated Fortunes. Sam Pizzigati, an Institute associate fellow, edits Too Much, an online weekly on excess and inequality.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/08/31-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And Nixon. :thumb:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:26 pm
by kalm
AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:We need, Roosevelt told a massive assembly of 30,000 listeners, to “destroy privilege.” Ruin for our democracy, he warned, will be “inevitable if our national life brings us nothing better than swollen fortunes for the few.”
While I agree with much of what TR had to say, I think here he had it ass-backwards. Ruin for our democracy will be inevitable when voters realize they can perform wealth redistribution through granting themselves largesse from the public treasury.

And Kalm....I know you don't want to admit it, and you constantly try to claim you're a centrist....but dude. Give up the charade. You're a card carryin' donk and you KNOW it.
Wrong, it's both. Consolidation of power corrupts and fedualism can also lead to authoritarianism, just like communism does. It's a good thing we had the Roosevelts during the last century to save capitalism from itself.

As for my donk status, I think we should be able to have rich folks as well as reward hard working middle class folks. And sure, the middle class has become overly consumptive and loose with money over the past 3 decades as you so often point out. So have the wealthiest 1%, but they haven't suffered as a result.

Bottom line is, I'm a cynic. So put that in your redistribution pipe and smoke it. :thumb:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:31 pm
by D1B
Cap'n Cat wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
While I agree with much of what TR had to say, I think here he had it ass-backwards. Ruin for our democracy will be inevitable when voters realize they can perform wealth redistribution through granting themselves largesse from the public treasury.

And Kalm....I know you don't want to admit it, and you constantly try to claim you're a centrist....but dude. Give up the charade. You're a card carryin' donk and you KNOW it.

As much as you're a card-carrying teabagger, Z!

He's right and your shit about wealth distribution coming from the public tit is just the kind of radical, scare tactic guano you and your Conk cohorts live by and will eventually die by. You want to maintain your cushy desert mansion with the three Escalades and the Olympic-size pool with 14 Mexican gardeners bowing and curtsying at your every whim.

Your people have failed us and the time has already begun in which your type will be brought to justice.

And the revolution WILL be televised, bitch! On Al Jazeera, too!

Image
"Honey? The ground motion detection system is indicating that either a niqqer or a wetback has stepped on the property back by the Maserati garage. Will you please phone John McCain about it?"
LMFAO - this one gave me a hernia :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:09 pm
by Cap'n Cat
CitadelGrad wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:
I didn't say Manifest Destiny was a Conk philosophy. :roll: Pretty sure I said it was an "inconvenient truth" of our country's past. Every President, every Congress, etc. had a role to play.

I was talking about Conks on this board coming around to criticizing American imperialism. Wouldn't have expected dyed-in-the-wool conservatives like Col. Hogan and CitadelGrad to criticize American imperialism. Glad to see it, though. :thumb: :nod:
I'm tired of telling your this, but I'm not a Conk. You just don't fucking listen, do you?


"Conk" is a derogatory term for conservative, Graddy, and you're one of the worst specimens on here.

:coffee:

Re: When Republicans understood the values of democracy

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:14 pm
by D1B
Cap'n Cat wrote:
CitadelGrad wrote:
I'm tired of telling your this, but I'm not a Conk. You just don't fucking listen, do you?


"Conk" is a derogatory term for conservative, Graddy, and you're one of the worst specimens on here.

:coffee:
Not sure bout this on Cap'n. Graddy is pretty cool and fucking hilarious. He's had me in tears a few times. Compared to the other victims of that godforsaken shithole of a school, he's Jerry Brown.

Good, strong atheist too. :thumb: