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General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:44 am
by Col Hogan
The top general in Afghanistan is in hot water for comments he made to a reporter that appeared in the Washington Post today...
The Post got an advanced copy of a Rolling Stone article set to publish this Friday in which McChrystal was very critical of the President, his administration, and other military leaders...
The profile of McChrystal, titled the "Runaway General," also raises fresh questions about the judgment and leadership style of the commander appointed by President Obama last year in an effort to turn around a worsening conflict.
McChrystal and some of his senior advisers are quoted criticizing top administration officials, at times in starkly derisive terms. An anonymous McChrystal aide is quoted as calling national security adviser James L. Jones a "clown," who remains "stuck in 1985."
Referring to Richard C. Holbrooke, Obama's senior envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, one McChrystal aide is quoted as saying: "The Boss says he's like a wounded animal. Holbrooke keeps hearing rumors that he's going to get fired, so that makes him dangerous."
On one occasion, McChrystal appears to react with exasperation when he receives an e-mail from Holbrooke. "Oh, not another e-mail from Holbrooke," McChrystal says, according to the article. "I don't even want to read it."
U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan Karl W. Eikenberry, a retired three-star general, isn't spared. Referring to a leaked cable from Eikenberry that expressed concerns about the trustworthiness of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, McChrystal is quoted as having said: "Here's one that covers his flank for the history books. Now if we fail, they can say, 'I told you so.' "
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
McChrystal has been summed to appear in person Wednesday during a normal weekly Afghanistan meeting at the White House...normally, he's on a secure VTC from Afghanistan...
Bets around the office are he gets fired...
IMHO, any General officer who allows this type of discussion to take place in front of a reporter deserves to be fired...your personal opinion is something you share with someone you trust...not with your junior officers...and definately not with a reporter...
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:47 am
by dbackjon
Agreed - and if a top general had said the same things to a reporter about Bush when in office, I'd still agree.
McChrystal may be 100% correct, but it is 100% wrong to do what he did.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:06 am
by Rob Iola
I'm no fan of Obama, but he's in a no win situation with Afghanistan - either surge or go home - and surge is something that a) he needs McChrystal for, and b) might just mean he get's primaried by the Left in 2012...
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:10 am
by Col Hogan
Rob Iola wrote:I'm no fan of Obama, but he's in a no win situation with Afghanistan - either surge or go home - and surge is something that a) he needs McChrystal for, and b) might just mean he get's primaried by the Left in 2012...
And he's in a no-win with McChrystal now...
If he fires him...he loses his best tactician in Afghanistan...
If he keeps him...well, he really can't IMHO...
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:32 am
by Baldy
Obama will do whatever "The Teleprompter" (David Axelrod) tells him to do.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:17 am
by SuperHornet
Obama's in a situation here similar to Truman's with MacArthur, except for the fact that McChrystal is a virtual unknown to the average layperson. Very knowledgeable about his craft, but can't keep his mouth shut. If a vastly popular general like MacArthur gets canned by a one-term President, then I think it's a safe bet that an unknown loose cannon gets the same treatment.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:48 am
by travelinman67
Col Hogan wrote:Rob Iola wrote:I'm no fan of Obama, but he's in a no win situation with Afghanistan - either surge or go home - and surge is something that a) he needs McChrystal for, and b) might just mean he get's primaried by the Left in 2012...
And he's in a no-win with McChrystal now...
If he fires him...he loses his best tactician in Afghanistan...
If he keeps him...well, he really can't IMHO...
But Col, we can always send Gen. Odalayheewho.
(...and Rahm can run the Joint Command...
)
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:44 am
by ALPHAGRIZ1
Good for McChrystal, he should be looking out for his men and if the unqualified community organizer doesnt like it he can go fu*k himself.
Obama is clueless and is putting our troops in harms way for poll numbers. His input should be disregarded because he really doesnt have the brain or experience to run our military.
Hes no Bush, that much is certain.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:51 am
by danefan
ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:Good for McChrystal, he should be looking out for his men and if the unqualified community organizer doesnt like it he can go fu*k himself.
Obama is clueless and is putting our troops in harms way for poll numbers. His input should be disregarded because he really doesnt have the brain or experience to run our military.
Hes no Bush, that much is certain.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:30 am
by OL FU
Shit, if he gives up this kind of information to Rolling Stone Magazine just imagine how he would squeal if the enemy captured him
Wait
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:26 pm
by GannonFan
A general who doesn't know his place is a general not worth having. You can have all the private disagreements in the world, but the minute you air these grievances for all to see publically is the minute you should hand in your resignation. Obama shouldn't have to fire him, he should've offerred his resignation himself. Correct or not, a general shouldn't be talking like that.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:51 pm
by 93henfan
Excerpt from Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice:
“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
Elements.
(1) That the accused was a commissioned officer of the United States armed forces;
(2) That the accused used certain words against an official or legislature named in the article;
(3) That by an act of the accused these words came to the knowledge of a person other than the accused; and
(4) That the words used were contemptuous, either in themselves or by virtue of the circumstances under which they were used. Note: If the words were against a Governor or legislature, add the following element
(5) That the accused was then present in the State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the Governor or legislature concerned.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:59 pm
by native
Col Hogan wrote:Rob Iola wrote:I'm no fan of Obama, but he's in a no win situation with Afghanistan - either surge or go home - and surge is something that a) he needs McChrystal for, and b) might just mean he get's primaried by the Left in 2012...
And he's in a no-win with McChrystal now...
If he fires him...he loses his best tactician in Afghanistan...
If he keeps him...well, he really can't IMHO...
Obama truly is in a no-win situation in Afganistan.
However, the comparison with McArthur is not entirely apt. MacArthur was past his prime when Truman fired him. McChrystal is at his peak. There is no one who can replace McChrystal and succeeed in such a short time frame with the current rules of engagement. McChrystal is probably closer to Obama's frame of mind tha nany other competent general. Firing McChrystal will kill morale and destrroy Obama's chances for success. Keeping McChrystal will enhance Obama's chances for success but make him look weak.
Indeed, the differences between Obama and Truman are stark and compelling. Unlike "the-buck-stops-here" Truman, Obama cannot un-do his "the-buck-stops-anywhere-but-here" reputation. The emty suit in chief looks like an un-Presidential titty-baby drag-queen for all his meaningless prancing and pouting about McChrystal and BP.
Firing McChrystal cannot repair the damage Obama has already done to himself and will continue to inflict regardless of whom he selects as his general.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:00 pm
by native
93henfan wrote:Excerpt from Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice:
“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
Elements.
(1) That the accused was a commissioned officer of the United States armed forces;
(2) That the accused used certain words against an official or legislature named in the article;
(3) That by an act of the accused these words came to the knowledge of a person other than the accused; and
(4) That the words used were contemptuous, either in themselves or by virtue of the circumstances under which they were used. Note: If the words were against a Governor or legislature, add the following element
(5) That the accused was then present in the State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the Governor or legislature concerned.
We should probably read the actual article in the Rolling Stone before we jump to conclusions about McChrystal.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:04 pm
by UNHWildCats
McChrystal has submitted his resignation.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:09 pm
by native
UNHWildCats wrote:McChrystal has submitted his resignation.
...removing any possible upside for Obama.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:20 pm
by GannonFan
native wrote:UNHWildCats wrote:McChrystal has submitted his resignation.
...removing any possible upside for Obama.
Nonsense - this is the chance Obama has to not accept the resgination, reprimand the guy who many say is the best general available for this war, and get him back in there. It's a win win - Obama properly asserts the role of the President to be the commander in chief and he still gets the best general for the job. IMO, that would be the best outcome of this affair.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:36 pm
by native
GannonFan wrote:native wrote:
...removing any possible upside for Obama.
Nonsense - this is the chance Obama has to not accept the resgination, reprimand the guy who many say is the best general available for this war, and get him back in there. It's a win win - Obama properly asserts the role of the President to be the commander in chief and he still gets the best general for the job. IMO, that would be the best outcome of this affair.
Very good point, GF, but Obama "wins" only in comparison with other scenarions in which he would lose even more.
I am not convinced that any scenario is a net win for Obama. He has wounded himself and boxed himself into too many corners, including his rules of engagement that get our own soldiers killed. The ROE possibly turn out in the long run to be approporiate, but not without a victory strategy and not without McChrystal at the helm.
Obama is still "below glided slope," and "behind the eight ball," but perhaps not as much as he otherwise might have been.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:53 pm
by UNHWildCats
Senior aide says there is a path where McChrystal can keep his job, it will all depend on how meeting goes with Obama tomorrow morning.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:49 pm
by native
UNHWildCats wrote:Senior aide says there is a path where McChrystal can keep his job, it will all depend on how meeting goes with Obama tomorrow morning.
Obama running into the closet and hiding behnd a nameless administration official like the helpless, worthless coward that he is. Obama's goose is cooked and he knows it!
What a house of cards! Crooked Rahmbo sucks, but without him, the leftie leftovers offer no competent substance whatsoever.
A Can-o-whooopass
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:06 pm
by native
Does Obama really know how to kick ass?
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:18 pm
by houndawg
Rob Iola wrote:I'm no fan of Obama, but he's in a no win situation with Afghanistan - either surge or go home - and surge is something that a) he needs McChrystal for, and b) might just mean he get's primaried by the Left in 2012...
We need to get out of the Graveyard of Empires and do it now. Dead or Alive isn't going to happen, unfortunately.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:21 pm
by SeattleGriz
Col Hogan wrote:Rob Iola wrote:I'm no fan of Obama, but he's in a no win situation with Afghanistan - either surge or go home - and surge is something that a) he needs McChrystal for, and b) might just mean he get's primaried by the Left in 2012...
And he's in a no-win with McChrystal now...
If he fires him...
he loses his best tactician in Afghanistan...
If he keeps him...well, he really can't IMHO...
Interesting. I was reading an article that stated McChrystal has imposed some really weak rules of engagement on the troops and is depressing their morale, not to mention their effectiveness.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:24 pm
by native
SeattleGriz wrote:Col Hogan wrote:
And he's in a no-win with McChrystal now...
If he fires him...he loses his best tactician in Afghanistan...
If he keeps him...well, he really can't IMHO...
Interesting. I was reading an article that stated McChrystal has imposed some really weak rules of engagement on the troops and is depressing their morale, not to mention their effectiveness.
Apparently the troops blame Obama for the weak ROE, which are reminiscent of shamefully weak ROE in previous lost wars. I look forward to what is really in the Rolling Stone article.
Re: General McChrystal - Dead Man Walking
Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:33 pm
by houndawg
native wrote:SeattleGriz wrote:
Interesting. I was reading an article that stated McChrystal has imposed some really weak rules of engagement on the troops and is depressing their morale, not to mention their effectiveness.
Apparently the troops blame Obama for the weak ROE, which are reminiscent of shamefully weak ROE in previous lost wars. I look forward to what is really in the Rolling Stone article.
Weak ROE is not why we're losing in Afghanistan, Nate, and you trying to link them with lost wars is simply another of your bald faced lies.
The Russians killed anything that moved and went after children with land mine toys, a straight up terror campaign, and the Afghans threw them out like they've done to everybody else who has invaded them throughout their history. The problem is that there is no military solution to Afghanistan, not weak ROE.