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So, it looks like the most free-loaders are in the South

dbackjon wrote:So, it looks like the most free-loaders are in the South

I'm for changing the fucking law and making those southern freeloaders pay. how bout you

Only Texas, Georgia, and Florida fall into the top 10 most populous states (from Wiki) and Florida, SC, Alabama, and Mississippi are in the top 10 states with the highest unemployment rates, therefore requiring higher unemployment benefits.

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's your point?

ASUG8 wrote:Only Texas, Georgia, and Florida fall into the top 10 most populous states (from Wiki) and Florida, SC, Alabama, and Mississippi are in the top 10 states with the highest unemployment rates, therefore requiring higher unemployment benefits.

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's your point?

This was for 2008, to begin with.

Second, it is funny that the solidly Republican South has the highest percentage of freeloaders in the country.

dbackjon wrote:

ASUG8 wrote:Only Texas, Georgia, and Florida fall into the top 10 most populous states (from Wiki) and Florida, SC, Alabama, and Mississippi are in the top 10 states with the highest unemployment rates, therefore requiring higher unemployment benefits.

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's your point?

This was for 2008, to begin with.

Second, it is funny that the solidly Republican South has the highest percentage of freeloaders in the country.

I see your point to some extent. However, looking at a state like California or NY with huge populations and pretty high non-payment, the absolute dollars in tax avoidance dramatically overshadow the majority of states shaded in red. You don't spend percentages, only real $.

dbackjon wrote:So, it looks like the most free-loaders are in the South

I find it quaint that you refer to natural Democratic constituencies -- low-income populations in relatively poor states -- as "freeloaders."

dbackjon wrote:

ASUG8 wrote:Only Texas, Georgia, and Florida fall into the top 10 most populous states (from Wiki) and Florida, SC, Alabama, and Mississippi are in the top 10 states with the highest unemployment rates, therefore requiring higher unemployment benefits.

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's your point?

This was for 2008, to begin with.

Second, it is funny that the solidly Republican South has the highest percentage of freeloaders in the country.

Doesn't surprise me.

Ivytalk wrote:

dbackjon wrote:So, it looks like the most free-loaders are in the South

I find it quaint that you refer to natural Democratic constituencies -- low-income populations in relatively poor states -- as "freeloaders."

States that are also very high in minority population (i.e. Donk voters).

Baldy wrote:

Ivytalk wrote:
I find it quaint that you refer to natural Democratic constituencies -- low-income populations in relatively poor states -- as "freeloaders."

States that are also very high in minority population (i.e. Donk voters).

Stop trying to kid yourself.......those are all RED STATES that vote REPUBLICAN.

mainejeff wrote:

Baldy wrote: States that are also very high in minority population (i.e. Donk voters).

Stop trying to kid yourself.......those are all RED STATES that vote REPUBLICAN.

Florida and New Mexico went for Barry in '08, Clyde.

mainejeff wrote:

Baldy wrote: States that are also very high in minority population (i.e. Donk voters).

Stop trying to kid yourself.......those are all RED STATES that vote REPUBLICAN.

Your immense wisdom is captivating. Are you trying to tell me that Georgia doesn't have a very large minority population just because it is a red state?

dbackjon wrote:

ASUG8 wrote:Only Texas, Georgia, and Florida fall into the top 10 most populous states (from Wiki) and Florida, SC, Alabama, and Mississippi are in the top 10 states with the highest unemployment rates, therefore requiring higher unemployment benefits.

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's your point?

This was for 2008, to begin with.

Second, it is funny that the solidly Republican South has the highest percentage of freeloaders in the country.

37% of California + 35% of New York is > 35% of the entire South, COMBINED.

Get a fuckin' clue, Jon...you're looking real stupid here.

Baldy is right that this is due to minority populations. It's the old Confederacy with only a few additions and subtractions.

But, it's a great example of why we can't rely solely on states to take care of their citizens... especially those states that have a long history of government sanctioned racism and discrimination (and are, coincidentally, the most vocal opponents of such federal "intrusion"). The states don't want to take care of their poor (the poor that are directly attributable to the failed institutions and policies of those states... slavery, sharecropping, Jim Crow, etc.). The federal government ultimately has to play a larger role in those states than those states wish... including overturning racist laws in those states, providing aid to the minority and impoverished population that the states ignore.

Skjellyfetti wrote:Baldy is right that this is due to minority populations. It's the old Confederacy with only a few additions and subtractions.

But, it's a great example of why we can't rely solely on states to take care of their citizens... especially those states that have a long history of government sanctioned racism and discrimination (and are, coincidentally, the most vocal opponents of such federal "intrusion"). The states don't want to take care of their poor (the poor that are directly attributable to the failed institutions and policies of those states... slavery, sharecropping, Jim Crow, etc.). The federal government ultimately has to play a larger role in those states than those states wish... including overturning racist laws in those states, providing aid to the minority and impoverished population that the states ignore.

I think your comments would have validity if blacks weren't generally in the lower income levels in the north also. The percentage is just smaller. Increase that percentage and unfortunately you are probably in the same percentage of non tax payers.

Blacks in every part of the country sit squarely on the lower income levels. There are many reasons and you have mentioned a few but add in the welfare culture created in the 60s and 70s continuing today and then you probably have them all.


There is a nother part of this also which is one of the great inequities of taxing income. Not sure what you do about it but it is simply cost of living. $20,000 in rural South Carolina isn't much. But it is a hell of alot more than in the urban north.

As always on these threads I am trying to determine the point other than being a prick.

The people that generally support more welfare and lower taxes rates including rebates for taxes not even paid on lower income households are the ones that are bitching about these things occuring. Do me a favor and write your congressman and tell him everyone needs to pay income taxes. I'm behind you 100% in that effort.

Skjellyfetti wrote:Baldy is right that this is due to minority populations. It's the old Confederacy with only a few additions and subtractions.

But, it's a great example of why we can't rely solely on states to take care of their citizens... especially those states that have a long history of government sanctioned racism and discrimination (and are, coincidentally, the most vocal opponents of such federal "intrusion"). The states don't want to take care of their poor (the poor that are directly attributable to the failed institutions and policies of those states... slavery, sharecropping, Jim Crow, etc.). The federal government ultimately has to play a larger role in those states than those states wish... including overturning racist laws in those states, providing aid to the minority and impoverished population that the states ignore.

Oh cry me a fucking river. We're 150 years removed from slavery and 50 years removed from Jim Crow. At some point these folks need to man up, grow a pair, and take responsibility for their OWN lives.

Oh. Wait. No they don't. They know the federal government will do it FOR them.

OL FU wrote: Blacks in every part of the country sit squarely on the lower income levels. There are many reasons and you have mentioned a few but add in the welfare culture created in the 60s and 70s continuing today and then you probably have them all.

Not entirely true. According to census data... Blacks 25+ are getting very close to equaling white men in average earned income annually. Black women 25+ actually surpass white women in average earned income.

This part isn't based on hard numbers... just my hypothesis but, I think if you looked at average black income outside of the slave states and territories vs. average white income nationally they'd be very close. Blacks outside of the South stand a much higher chance of success... hence why they scrambled to places like New York, Chicago, Detroit, etc.

There are, of course, poor blacks everywhere just as there are poor whites everywhere. But, there are HUGE, disproportionate numbers of rural, poor blacks in the South that are the obvious remnant of slavery and the institutions that followed Emancipation.

AZGrizFan wrote:At some point these folks need to man up, grow a pair, and take responsibility for their OWN lives.

Of course they do... but, they need a more level playing field. It's much more difficult to come out of poverty than you want to believe. A person that grows up in poverty is MUCH more likely to live their entire life in poverty than someone who grows up in a middle class or upper class family. Let's be honest... you are normally a bit of a fuckup to go from upper middle class or upper class to poverty. And "manning up", "growing a pair", and "taking responsibility" isn't enough. The American Dream is a myth.

And.. just because we are so far removed from slavery and Jim Crow doesn't mean institutional racism doesn't exist. I'm sure people back in the 60's were saying "Slaves were freed 100 years ago!! Man up, grow a pair, and take responsibility!! Separate but EQUAL!!! The playing field is level!!!"

Skjellyfetti wrote:The American Dream is a myth.

Only to the people who don't have the intelligence, desire, or testicular fortitude to work for it.

I want to add one more thing... since this issue is largely responsible for forming my liberal political beliefs and I remember the exact moment it occured.

I grew up in Alabama and went to private schools from preschool on. Most families in Alabama that can afford to send their children to private school do so. I didn't pay it much attention until around 8th or 9th grade when I started to notice that my school was overwhelmingly white... and that all the schools I had ever attended were founded, coincidentally , the same time of Brown vs. Board and the Civil Rights Act. The public schools I would have attended if I were not as fortunate as I was were underfunded shitholes. I became aware of the new Southern tradition of sending your kids to disproportionately white private schools and forgetting about (or just not caring) about disproportionately minority public schools. My parents weren't racist and I don't believe most people in the South were racist... but, I realized that if I were born with a different color skin or in a different income bracket my chances of success were MUCH smaller. I saw the need for a leveling of the playing field. If I ever come to the conclusion that the playing field has been leveled my political beliefs may start to change... but, for now... I'm convinced of the need.

Baldy wrote:

Skjellyfetti wrote:The American Dream is a myth.

Only to the people who don't have the intelligence, desire, or testicular fortitude to work for it.

And working hard doesn't necessarily equal success, Baldy. The myth of the American Dream is part of the utopic conservatism we were getting at in another thread.

Hard work helps, but you need a lot of breaks and a level playing field.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:At some point these folks need to man up, grow a pair, and take responsibility for their OWN lives.

Of course they do... but, they need a more level playing field. It's much more difficult to come out of poverty than you want to believe. A person that grows up in poverty is MUCH more likely to live their entire life in poverty than someone who grows up in a middle class or upper class family. Let's be honest... you are normally a bit of a fuckup to go from upper middle class or upper class to poverty. And "manning up", "growing a pair", and "taking responsibility" isn't enough. The American Dream is a myth.

And.. just because we are so far removed from slavery and Jim Crow doesn't mean institutional racism doesn't exist. I'm sure people back in the 60's were saying "Slaves were freed 100 years ago!! Man up, grow a pair, and take responsibility!! Separate but EQUAL!!! The playing field is level!!!"

Skjellyfetti wrote:I want to add one more thing... since this issue is largely responsible for forming my liberal political beliefs and I remember the exact moment it occured.

I grew up in Alabama and went to private schools from preschool on. Most families in Alabama that can afford to send their children to private school do so. I didn't pay it much attention until around 8th or 9th grade when I started to notice that my school was overwhelmingly white... and that all the schools I had ever attended were founded, coincidentally , the same time of Brown vs. Board and the Civil Rights Act. The public schools I would have attended if I were not as fortunate as I was were underfunded shitholes. I became aware of the new Southern tradition of sending your kids to disproportionately white private schools and forgetting about (or just not caring) about disproportionately minority public schools. My parents weren't racist and I don't believe most people in the South were racist... but, I realized that if I were born with a different color skin or in a different income bracket my chances of success were MUCH smaller. I saw the need for a leveling of the playing field. If I ever come to the conclusion that the playing field has been leveled my political beliefs may start to change... but, for now... I'm convinced of the need.

Here's my take: EVERY attempt by the Federal Government to artificially "level" the playing field has resulted in dragging out the transformation of this country to one where the color of a person's skin doesn't matter. And if "manning up" and "growing a pair" weren't enough, how do you explain your own damned stats regarding black vs white incomes outside the South?

Does it take a rocket scientist to understand that "man, it sucks here, I think I'll go look for something better somewhere else."? KY, it comes down to the fact that these people have been trained to live off the government teet, and Democrats like it that way. They're good, solid, democrat voters (when they vote at all, which apparently is increasing rapidly with a black presidential candidate) despite the fact that for 75 years the Democrats given nothing but lip service to their plight. You don't stay poverty-striken for 4-5 generations and NOT do something about it. Many, many people HAVE manned up and done something about it....just like Baldy says, the American dream is NOT a myth, Democrats just have to keep painting it that way to ensure they get these gullable saps to keep voting for them.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

Baldy wrote: Only to the people who don't have the intelligence, desire, or testicular fortitude to work for it.

And working hard doesn't necessarily equal success, Baldy. We're back to the utopic conservatism again. Hard work helps, but you need breaks and a level playing field.

You can NOT artificially create a level playing field. Attempts to do so only serve to exacerbate the problem.

All the po' folk I saw down in Tennessee were WHITE. They were running food stamps through the registers at Wal-Mart like they were going out of style!

mainejeff wrote:All the po' folk I saw down in Tennessee were WHITE. They were running food stamps through the registers at Wal-Mart like they were going out of style!

That's because they got on the loudspeaker and told all the blacks to leave the Walmart.