Page 1 of 2
As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:49 am
by dbackjon
BP conceded Thursday that more oil than it estimated is gushing into the Gulf of Mexico as heavy crude washed into Louisiana's wetlands for the first time, feeding worries and uncertainty about the massive month-long spill.
Mark Proegler, a spokesman for oil giant BP PLC, said a mile-long tube inserted into a leaking pipe over the weekend is now capturing 210,000 gallons a day - the total amount the company and the Coast Guard have estimated is gushing into the sea - but some is still escaping. He would not say how much.
Several professors who have watched video of the leak have already said they believe the amount gushing out is much higher than the official estimates.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/ ... ?tag=stack" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:51 am
by ASUG8
No surprise - BP is in full PR crisis mode.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:32 am
by GannonFan
Even more reason why we should have had, and still should have, a more national, governmental response to this. I understand this is BP's mess and they're on the hook for it, but we've known for at least the past 10 years that BP was a real, flat out, bad guy when it comes to safety and the environment. Considering that at the end of the day, we may have to live with the ramifications of this spill for years to come, I would've hoped we could have stepped in with more of a response than making sure BP foots the bill for this.
This isn't just Obama's fault for not having a real response - any President before him would've suffered the same as well. Why we can't marshall enough resources and know-how to combat something like this is a tough commentary on America. And that's beyond the dismay that we can't seem to have a decent regulatory body to oversee this stuff in the first place.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:53 am
by mainejeff
GannonFan wrote:Even more reason why we should have had, and still should have, a more national, governmental response to this. I understand this is BP's mess and they're on the hook for it, but we've known for at least the past 10 years that BP was a real, flat out, bad guy when it comes to safety and the environment. Considering that at the end of the day, we may have to live with the ramifications of this spill for years to come, I would've hoped we could have stepped in with more of a response than making sure BP foots the bill for this.
This isn't just Obama's fault for not having a real response - any President before him would've suffered the same as well. Why we can't marshall enough resources and know-how to combat something like this is a tough commentary on America. And that's beyond the dismay that we can't seem to have a decent regulatory body to oversee this stuff in the first place.
Capitalism cures all. Corporations will take care of us.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:00 pm
by houndawg
GannonFan wrote:Even more reason why we should have had, and still should have, a more national, governmental response to this. I understand this is BP's mess and they're on the hook for it, but we've known for at least the past 10 years that BP was a real, flat out, bad guy when it comes to safety and the environment. Considering that at the end of the day, we may have to live with the ramifications of this spill for years to come, I would've hoped we could have stepped in with more of a response than making sure BP foots the bill for this.
This isn't just Obama's fault for not having a real response - any President before him would've suffered the same as well. Why we can't marshall enough resources and know-how to combat something like this is a tough commentary on America. And that's beyond the dismay that we can't seem to have a decent regulatory body to oversee this stuff in the first place.
Get used to it.
Unlimited corporate campaign contributions = Game Over.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:03 pm
by mainejeff
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:50 pm
by AZGrizFan
mainejeff wrote:GannonFan wrote:Even more reason why we should have had, and still should have, a more national, governmental response to this. I understand this is BP's mess and they're on the hook for it, but we've known for at least the past 10 years that BP was a real, flat out, bad guy when it comes to safety and the environment. Considering that at the end of the day, we may have to live with the ramifications of this spill for years to come, I would've hoped we could have stepped in with more of a response than making sure BP foots the bill for this.
This isn't just Obama's fault for not having a real response - any President before him would've suffered the same as well. Why we can't marshall enough resources and know-how to combat something like this is a tough commentary on America. And that's beyond the dismay that we can't seem to have a decent regulatory body to oversee this stuff in the first place.
Capitalism cures all. Corporations will take care of us.
Nah...but I'm sure our government will.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:51 pm
by AZGrizFan
houndawg wrote:GannonFan wrote:Even more reason why we should have had, and still should have, a more national, governmental response to this. I understand this is BP's mess and they're on the hook for it, but we've known for at least the past 10 years that BP was a real, flat out, bad guy when it comes to safety and the environment. Considering that at the end of the day, we may have to live with the ramifications of this spill for years to come, I would've hoped we could have stepped in with more of a response than making sure BP foots the bill for this.
This isn't just Obama's fault for not having a real response - any President before him would've suffered the same as well. Why we can't marshall enough resources and know-how to combat something like this is a tough commentary on America. And that's beyond the dismay that we can't seem to have a decent regulatory body to oversee this stuff in the first place.
Get used to it.
Unlimited corporate campaign contributions = Game Over.
Question: Is that the CAPITALISTS fault? Or the government's?
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:51 pm
by GannonFan
houndawg wrote:GannonFan wrote:Even more reason why we should have had, and still should have, a more national, governmental response to this. I understand this is BP's mess and they're on the hook for it, but we've known for at least the past 10 years that BP was a real, flat out, bad guy when it comes to safety and the environment. Considering that at the end of the day, we may have to live with the ramifications of this spill for years to come, I would've hoped we could have stepped in with more of a response than making sure BP foots the bill for this.
This isn't just Obama's fault for not having a real response - any President before him would've suffered the same as well. Why we can't marshall enough resources and know-how to combat something like this is a tough commentary on America. And that's beyond the dismay that we can't seem to have a decent regulatory body to oversee this stuff in the first place.
Get used to it.
Unlimited corporate campaign contributions = Game Over.
Well, they are limited - not a lot of shareholders are going to be willing to sink gobs and gobs of money into campaign contributions - people are still pretty greedy, they want their money.
But again - tell me when massive amounts of money
weren't involved in elections? You make it seem like everything that happened before was some wonderful, Rockwellian-fantasy world where elections were fairly fought. Welcome to America - it's been pretty down and dirty election-wise since 1796.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:56 pm
by GannonFan
mainejeff wrote:GannonFan wrote:Even more reason why we should have had, and still should have, a more national, governmental response to this. I understand this is BP's mess and they're on the hook for it, but we've known for at least the past 10 years that BP was a real, flat out, bad guy when it comes to safety and the environment. Considering that at the end of the day, we may have to live with the ramifications of this spill for years to come, I would've hoped we could have stepped in with more of a response than making sure BP foots the bill for this.
This isn't just Obama's fault for not having a real response - any President before him would've suffered the same as well. Why we can't marshall enough resources and know-how to combat something like this is a tough commentary on America. And that's beyond the dismay that we can't seem to have a decent regulatory body to oversee this stuff in the first place.
Capitalism cures all. Corporations will take care of us.
Sure, in a black or white world one can view things in absolutes, but once you get back to reality tell me how we should be doing it? At some point the national government needs to protect the country, whether militarily from abroad or in this case, from environmental disaster. Obviously a bad corporate player has helped cause this, and BP is about as bad as they come, but they were also allowed by the government to get this far, both in terms of creating the mess and in terms of letting the mess get bigger and bigger. When and how do we as a national government start playing a real role other than a public scolder and rebuker?
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:59 pm
by Grizalltheway
AZGrizFan wrote:houndawg wrote:
Get used to it.
Unlimited corporate campaign contributions = Game Over.
Question: Is that the CAPITALISTS fault? Or the government's?
I believe houndawg has lambasted the SC on many occasions for their decision.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:04 pm
by AZGrizFan
Grizalltheway wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
Question: Is that the CAPITALISTS fault? Or the government's?
I believe houndawg has lambasted the SC on many occasions for their decision.
I understand that, and I applaud him for it. But it's a serious question. Is it the capitalist organizations fault for SPENDING lots of money on congressmen & senators, or is it the congressmen & senators fault for ACCEPTING the money, and then being beholden to them to look the other way on regulatory issues?
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:09 pm
by Grizalltheway
AZGrizFan wrote:Grizalltheway wrote:
I believe houndawg has lambasted the SC on many occasions for their decision.
I understand that, and I applaud him for it. But it's a serious question. Is it the capitalist organizations fault for SPENDING lots of money on congressmen & senators, or is it the congressmen & senators fault for ACCEPTING the money, and then being beholden to them to look the other way on regulatory issues?
It would appear to be a systemic problem. Both parties benefit greatly from how the system is set up, and thus have no incentive to change it. Sad, really.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:11 pm
by ASUG8
So far I think I've read exactly ZERO posts defending BP and their actions from either side of the aisle. No question they have played the game with lobbyists and campaign contributions to further their particular causes and are at fault for what is happening in the gulf. Taking a step back from that, why is the political system in place that allows these clear violations to occur? The government should be setting the rules and enforcing them, not bending to the almighty dollar or they are at LEAST as corrupt as the entities they are tasked to moderate. These aren't self appointed positions folks - they were either elected or appointed by our elected officials.
Some here are pretty long on criticism and short on solutions. Big oil/Wall Street breaks the rules, works the system available to them, and somehow all capitalism and private industry is bad? Even the Chinese know better than that. The system is broken - we need qualified people to fix it if we can find individuals who aren't already tainted.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:20 pm
by houndawg
GannonFan wrote:houndawg wrote:
Get used to it.
Unlimited corporate campaign contributions = Game Over.
Well, they are limited - not a lot of shareholders are going to be willing to sink gobs and gobs of money into campaign contributions - people are still pretty greedy, they want their money.
But again - tell me when massive amounts of money weren't involved in elections? You make it seem like everything that happened before was some wonderful, Rockwellian-fantasy world where elections were fairly fought. Welcome to America - it's been pretty down and dirty election-wise since 1796.
I think you're reading that in on your own, actually. What annoys me is SCOTUS giving its blessing to making government officially for sale.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:13 pm
by AZGrizFan
Grizalltheway wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
I understand that, and I applaud him for it. But it's a serious question. Is it the capitalist organizations fault for SPENDING lots of money on congressmen & senators, or is it the congressmen & senators fault for ACCEPTING the money, and then being beholden to them to look the other way on regulatory issues?
It would appear to be a systemic problem. Both parties benefit greatly from how the system is set up, and thus have no incentive to change it. Sad, really.
Agreed. As soon as I heard of the SC decision, I basically threw in the towel for this country standing a chance.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:14 pm
by AZGrizFan
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:48 pm
by houndawg
AZGrizFan wrote:houndawg wrote:
Get used to it.
Unlimited corporate campaign contributions = Game Over.
Question: Is that the CAPITALISTS fault? Or the government's?
Most of the blame lies with the government.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:20 pm
by SunCoastBlueHen
AZGrizFan wrote:houndawg wrote:
Get used to it.
Unlimited corporate campaign contributions = Game Over.
Question: Is that the CAPITALISTS fault? Or the government's?
Obviously it is BOTH. Big corporation will do anything, no matter how unethical, to increase the bottom line. Government allows most anything to be fair game as long pockets are fairly lines. Capitalists and the people that run our government are both greedy, bastard, soulless fucks. Both are equally to blame.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:40 pm
by ALPHAGRIZ1
With the undeserved beating BP has teken by the government, lamestream media and on this board, I wish they would hold a press conference and say "we tried but since you guys can do a better job you do it we quit"
You idiots do realize that BP is losing a tremendous amout of money on this whole thing right? Its not like they did it on purpose. They had more than enough safety measures in place and they all failed.
It was an accident
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:47 pm
by ASUG8
ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:With the undeserved beating BP has teken by the government, lamestream media and on this board, I wish they would hold a press conference and say "we tried but since you guys can do a better job you do it we quit"
You idiots do realize that BP is losing a tremendous amout of money on this whole thing right? Its not like they did it on purpose. They had more than enough safety measures in place and they all failed.
It was an accident
They have a staff of risk/return guys like me - they should fire most of theirs.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:47 pm
by ∞∞∞
ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:With the undeserved beating BP has teken by the government, lamestream media and on this board, I wish they would hold a press conference and say "we tried but since you guys can do a better job you do it we quit"
You idiots do realize that BP is losing a tremendous amout of money on this whole thing right? Its not like they did it on purpose. They had more than enough safety measures in place and they all failed.
It was an accident
One of the first things you learn in engineering is that accidents are NEVER acceptable. They should NEVER happen...period...no ifs, ands, or buts. Either BP was negligent, Transocean built the platform wrong, or both.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:25 pm
by ALPHAGRIZ1
You dont need to tell me about engineering.
I also live in the real world so I know nothings perfect.
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:33 pm
by mainejeff
Re: As Oil Spreads, BP Says it Underestimated Flow
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:56 pm
by ALPHAGRIZ1
Maybe because this hasnt happened to an American company in what............26-30 years?
Its not a common problem because they have multiple stages of safety. This one went through 3 or 4 safety devices.
If you want to point the finger point it at environmental groups, they are ultimately the ones that are responsible for this accident. If they didnt push companies out to sea this never would have happened. A leak like this on land would have been dealt with in a few days and no oil into any water.
