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In 1934, on a hill in the Mojave Desert, members of a local VFW erected a small white cross as a memorial to veterans who lost their lives in World War I.

To make a long story short, the land on which the cross sat, a place called Sunrise Rock, later became part of the Mojave Desert National Preserve, thus federal land under the control of the Department of the Interior.

In the late 1990s, the ACLU challeneged the presence of a religious symbol on federal land. The Interior Department countered that it was a War Memorial honoring those who had lost their lives defending our nation, not a per se religious symbol. A federal district judge issued an order directing the Interior Department to remove the cross, saying that its presence on federal land violated the establishment clause of the First Amendment.

A local member of the VFW who desired to protect the memorial then proposed to the Interior Department a land exchange. He offered to exchange five acres of land he owned in the desert, adjacent to the existing preserve, in exchange for the one acre on which the cross sat. The Interior Department accepted the offer and congress passed legislation authorizing and directing the Interior Department to affect the land exchange. Thus, the cross memorial would now sit on private land, a result which pleased the local VFW, which had felt aggrieved by the court's direction that a memorial in honor of war dead be destroyed.

The ACLU went back into court to demand that the land exchange be enjoined and the cross removed. The district judge acted to enjon the land exchange, saying that it was a transparent effort by congress to avoid the direction that the cross be removed. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed. But in late April, the United States Supreme Court (in a case argued by Elena Kagan on behalf of the Interior Department) reversed the lower court rulings, saying that the lower courts had erred in assuming bad intent and by overlooking evidence that the congressional authorization for the land exchange represented a reasonable effort to comply with a court direction to remove the corss from federal land while appeasing war veterans by protecting their memorial.

The Supreme Court's decision directed the District Court to reconsider its decision, outlining criteria which made it clear that the District Court must respect the exercise of authority by a coordinate branch of government and presume the lawfulness and good faith of the congressional action. It was clear to all observers that the land exchange was permissible and that the cross memorial would ultimately be preserved.

Having lost in the courts, the atheists who have been demanding that the cross be removed have now prevailed. They have stolen the cross. The ACLU, which had been seeking the removal of the cross, has condemned the theft as a violation of the "rule of law."

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/arti ... 084/LIFE04

Nah, it was probably ay-rab TERR'ists!

Proof it was atheists?

What a shame... I'm surprised that the anti-Christs haven't gone after the crosses at Arlington and other national monuments/battlefields/cemetaries.

dbackjon wrote:Proof it was atheists?

If Joe were interested in proof of any kind, he wouldn't be a catholic.

dbackjon wrote:Proof it was atheists?

Time will be my proof. You will see.

Atheists abide by the courts, so long as they get their way.

JoltinJoe wrote:

dbackjon wrote:Proof it was atheists?

Time will be my proof. You will see.

Atheists abide by the courts, so long as they get their way.

it could very well be. Or environmentalists that don't want it on a National Park.

Or someone looking to make money off of scrap metal

Or someone pulling a prank.

Or the Pope

JoltinJoe wrote:

dbackjon wrote:Proof it was atheists?

Atheists abide by the courts, so long as they get their way.

And Religious groups are any different?

dbackjon wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
Time will be my proof. You will see.

Atheists abide by the courts, so long as they get their way.

it could very well be. Or environmentalists that don't want it on a National Park.

Or someone looking to make money off of scrap metal

Or someone pulling a prank.

Or the Pope

I was discussing this case with someone after it was decided on April 28 and I told him, "Mark my words. Someone is going to vandalize that cross." As you know, I'm a Jesuit-educated, and the Jesuits say, "Understand your adversary as well as you understand yourself."

A person of non-Christian faith would have tolerated the land exchange solution. Atheists did this.

silly joe, there's no such thing as a true atheist. They just live their lives in open rebellion against the One who've given them that life but rest assured, they WILL bow one day.

JoltinJoe wrote:

dbackjon wrote:Proof it was atheists?

Time will be my proof. You will see.

Atheists abide by the courts, so long as they get their way.

Ahhh yes.......the tried and true ally of all religious a-holes.........TIME. Too bad people only live about 80 years and the religious nuts can never actually be proven wrong.

Ho-hum........

catamount man wrote:silly joe, there's no such thing as a true atheist. They just live their lives in open rebellion against the One who've given them that life but rest assured, they WILL bow one day.

I won't be bowing to anyone.

blueballs wrote:What a shame... I'm surprised that the anti-Christs haven't gone after the crosses at Arlington and other national monuments/battlefields/cemetaries.

Religious symbols in federal cemetaries/battlefields are acceptable because all religious symbols are allowed -- crosses, Star of David, even Wiccan symbols have been allowed.

The problem with this cross was that it was a single religious symbol, associated with Christianity, on federal property. The court was right the first time it ruled, but wrong to reject the land transfer solution. That was a perfectly reasonable and acceptable way for the Interior Department to obey the original court ruling to remove the cross from federal land, while still respecting the requests of war veterans that a memorial honoring war dead not be destroyed.

mainejeff wrote:

catamount man wrote:silly joe, there's no such thing as a true atheist. They just live their lives in open rebellion against the One who've given them that life but rest assured, they WILL bow one day.

I won't be bowing to anyone.

oh but you will friend. EVERYBODY that has ever lived will bow before Jesus Christ and declare him King of Kings and Lord of Lords when he comes again. Some in praise of eternal life and others in fear of eternal Hell.

catamount man wrote:

mainejeff wrote:
I won't be bowing to anyone.

oh but you will friend. EVERYBODY that has ever lived will bow before Jesus Christ and declare him King of Kings and Lord of Lords when he comes again. Some in praise of eternal life and others in fear of eternal Hell.

OK freak.

catamount man wrote:

mainejeff wrote:
I won't be bowing to anyone.

oh but you will friend. EVERYBODY that has ever lived will bow before Jesus Christ and declare him King of Kings and Lord of Lords when he comes again. Some in praise of eternal life and others in fear of eternal Hell.

I have read some places that Jesus might have been gay. If he was would he be the Queen of Queens?

catamount man wrote: oh but you will friend. EVERYBODY that has ever lived will bow before Jesus Christ and declare him King of Kings and Lord of Lords when he comes again. Some in praise of eternal life and others in fear of eternal Hell.

Wow..
Your Jesus sounds like and angry 4 year old having a temper tantrum

interesting god you have

dbackjon wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:


Atheists abide by the courts, so long as they get their way.

And Religious groups are any different?

Yes. If religious zealots choose to violate a court ruling they interpret as violating their religious freedoms, they do so openly and accept the responsibility for their actions: Atheist cower behind anonymity and commit their offenses in the shadows.

Thread of the Year!!!!!!!!!!

Dude gets his ass royally handed to him in a litany of child molestation/pedophile thread, the cases costing his church untold billions of dollars, ANDTHIS IS ALL HE CAN COME UP WITH TO TAKE A SHOT AT ATHEISTS!!!!

He don't even know it's atheists either!!

Hey Fatamountman, you hooked up your trailer to the wrong horse my friend. Stick with me, cuz it's easier and less stressful BEING HONEST.

Keep em coming Joe!

travelinman67 wrote:

dbackjon wrote:
And Religious groups are any different?

Yes. If religious zealots choose to violate a court ruling they interpret as violating their religious freedoms, they do so openly and accept the responsibility for their actions: Atheist cower behind anonymity and commit their offenses in the shadows.

Tman, what happened to you?

Religious zealots do crime in the open because they want to get caught and they especially want the media to see it. That's why I still think your prayer "ALOUD" issue is a ruse concieved to do just this.

Again, dipshit, it's vital for christians that christians be seen as oppressed in this country. Oh, BTW, I'm still waiting for your evidence that they are.

Good luck with that.

Chizzang wrote:

catamount man wrote: oh but you will friend. EVERYBODY that has ever lived will bow before Jesus Christ and declare him King of Kings and Lord of Lords when he comes again. Some in praise of eternal life and others in fear of eternal Hell.

Wow..
Your Jesus sounds like and angry 4 year old having a temper tantrum

interesting god you have

Exactly.

catamount man wrote:silly joe, there's no such thing as a true atheist. They just live their lives in open rebellion against the One who've given them that life but rest assured, they WILL bow one day.

According to Tman, atheists perform their anti christ crimes in the shadows. So what is it?

Catman,

Again, Jesus never existed. Do your homework.

catamount man wrote:

mainejeff wrote:
I won't be bowing to anyone.

oh but you will friend. EVERYBODY that has ever lived will bow before Jesus Christ and declare him King of Kings and Lord of Lords when he comes again. Some in praise of eternal life and others in fear of eternal Hell.

Tell that to the Muslims.

A really rich dude named Sam HIll built a mansion and a replica of Stonehenge to commemorate WWI veterans of Klickitat County in the Columbia River Gorge of Washington State.

The key point being he built this replica of a Pagan site on his own property. There's plenty of places for relgious symbols. Public lands are not one of them.

catamount man wrote:silly joe, there's no such thing as a true atheist. They just live their lives in open rebellion against the One who've given them that life but rest assured, they WILL bow one day.

The list of gods that you and me don't believe in is nearly identical.