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Barack Obama has written in his autobiography that he organized his life around the ideals imparted by his Kenyan father, Barak H. Obama, a Harvard-trained economist. So what were those ideals?

PrestoPundit has found a 1965 paper written by Obama’s father, in which he advocates:

— 100% taxation

— communal farms / the elimination of private farming

— the nationalization of businesses owned by “Europeans” and “Asians”.

— “active” measures to bring about a classless society

PrestoPundit is calling it the “Rosebud” of the Obama campaign
http://gregransom.com/prestopundit/2008 ... mas-d.html

Ho Hum

Another Right-wing smear on a Democrat.

The Republican Party is morally bankrupt, has NO IDEAS, and is RUINING our great country.

All that is left is to govern by fear. Very disgusting.

What's so sparkley and refreshing about communism? Where has it succeeded without the threat of imprisonment or worse from a tolaiterian ruler?

dback...we gotta get some more Donks over here...

Besides yourself and mvemjsunpx, we're Donk-poor.

...and I hate one-sided debates (shhh...don't say anything to Tod or DIssuesB).

coastal89 wrote:What's so sparkley and refreshing about communism? Where has it succeeded without the threat of imprisonment or worse from a tolaiterian ruler?

Who said anything WAS sparkly and refreshing???

dbackjon wrote:Ho Hum

Another Right-wing smear on a Democrat.

The Republican Party is morally bankrupt, has NO IDEAS, and is RUINING our great country.

All that is left is to govern by fear. Very disgusting.

No ideas. Now THAT'S funny. THat coming from a supporter of a party that has NEVER explained how they're going to DO anything...Lots of ideas....absolutely NO SOLUTIONS.

travelinman67 wrote:dback...we gotta get some more Donks over here...

Besides yourself and mvemjsunpx, we're Donk-poor.

...and I hate one-sided debates (shhh...don't say anything to Tod or DIssuesB).

I should point out that I'm not a Democrat, I'm an independent non-traditional liberal. I vote for whoever I think is the best candidate. I guess that makes me a Democrat-by-default because the Republicans are mostly idiots & the third-party candidates are mostly whack-jobs. Oh, and don't call me a donk. As a poker player, I find that offensive.


As for the "Obama is a closet communist" "controversy" brought up in this thread, you should consider the source. The blog where this person announces his "scoop" is called "PrestoPundit". The name PrestoPundit should give you a clue of this person's analytical ability. In my experience, most every pundit is a complete moron with no sense of objectivity whatsoever. Nothing I've seen of the PrestoPundit refutes that. The argument where he quotes Dreams From My Father to link Obama to his father's ideals is pathetically weak at best. The quotes Mr. Pundit uses do show a strong admiration for Obama, Sr.'s idealism & political abilities, but nothing that would indicate staunch loyalty to his socioeconomic policies. Not to mention the fact that Obama has never advocated anything resembling communism during his campaign. Looking at the truncated & obviously cherry-picked quotes, I'm guessing the one from p. 230 was grossly taken out of context because it doesn't really seem to fit Mr. Pundit's argument even in the mischaracterized form he's given. He's reaching at best. Knowing that he would look foolish in a real discussion, Mr. Pundit elects to play the "fear & smear" card that is so loved by his internet-sniping ilk.

In other words, just another random nut with a blog…

You're reaching dude. Do you believe everything your father believes?

MarkCCU wrote:You're reaching dude. Do you believe everything your father believes?

Dude, your blinded by Obamamania if you don't understand his own words, "I organized my life around the ideals of my father." If that's not definitive enough for you then you deserve what you could get with him as POTUS. Personnally, I never want to pay 18% interest on a car loan again like I did when Jimmy Carter was President.

coastal89 wrote:

MarkCCU wrote:You're reaching dude. Do you believe everything your father believes?

Dude, your blinded by Obamamania if you don't understand his own words, "I organized my life around the ideals of my father." If that's not definitive enough for you then you deserve what you could get with him as POTUS. Personnally, I never want to pay 18% interest on a car loan again like I did when Jimmy Carter was President.

His own words? Those are the words of the PrestoPundit, not Obama. Obama isn't quoted as having said that phrase anywhere in that post. That's just Mr. Pundit's delusionally paranoid paraphrasing.

And what the hell do high interest rates have to do with allegedly communist presidential economic policies? The stagflation of the 1970's (& the Fed's subsequent raising of interest rates) were caused by Vietnam War deficits, the OPEC embargo, & a lack of innovation among American businesses, not any sort of presidential economic policy. Not to mention that the stagflation started well before Carter was even president. You can blame the Fed for stubbornly sticking to Keynesian economic doctrine, but Carter really had nothing to do with it.

Mvemjsunpx wrote:...I should point out that I'm not a Democrat, I'm an independent non-traditional liberal. I vote for whoever I think is the best candidate. I guess that makes me a Democrat-by-default because the Republicans are mostly idiots & the third-party candidates are mostly whack-jobs. Oh, and don't call me a donk...

Fair enough. You be the boss. You have the choice of "lunatic fringe", "sheep" or "hippie".

travelinman67 wrote: Fair enough. You be the boss. You have the choice of "lunatic fringe", "sheep" or "hippie".

The folly with calling me a "sheep" - As I said, I'm an independent.

The folly with calling me a "hippie" - I was born in 1983 & have never smoked marijuana once, so that's out. Leave your ancient cultural wars in the past, please.

The folly with calling me "lunatic fringe" - Aren't you the one thinks a certain race of people are genetically inferior?


I guess you can call me whatever overly-simplistic label you wish. You will almost certainly be wrong, though.

coastal89 wrote:

MarkCCU wrote:You're reaching dude. Do you believe everything your father believes?

Dude, your blinded by Obamamania if you don't understand his own words, "I organized my life around the ideals of my father." If that's not definitive enough for you then you deserve what you could get with him as POTUS. Personnally, I never want to pay 18% interest on a car loan again like I did when Jimmy Carter was President.

I'm trying to follow this logic...Why would we pay 18% interest if Obama is elected...

Carter wasn't/isn't a Communist...so it can't be that...

We didn't anywhere near approach high interest rates during the 8 years of Clinton...so it can't be because of Democrats...

I wonder what could bring that kind of stagflation back.....hmmmmmmmm??????

Col Hogan wrote:

coastal89 wrote: Dude, your blinded by Obamamania if you don't understand his own words, "I organized my life around the ideals of my father." If that's not definitive enough for you then you deserve what you could get with him as POTUS. Personnally, I never want to pay 18% interest on a car loan again like I did when Jimmy Carter was President.

I'm trying to follow this logic...Why would we pay 18% interest if Obama is elected...

Carter wasn't/isn't a Communist...so it can't be that...

We didn't anywhere near approach high interest rates during the 8 years of Clinton...so it can't be because of Democrats...

I wonder what could bring that kind of stagflation back.....hmmmmmmmm??????

Yeah, i didn't follow that logic either.

it is really quite simple. The Dems want to give more of the money you work for to those who want to smoke blunts, play video games, and impregnate women to whom they are not married and the Repups want to aloow you to keep more of your money and tell those mentioned above to get a fucking job and stop depending on the rest of us for your 29 dollar a month public housing, food stamps, welfare checks, needless social programs for layabouts who are leeches on those of us who are productive citizens.

citdog wrote:it is really quite simple. The Dems want to give more of the money you work for to those who want to smoke blunts, play video games, and impregnate women to whom they are not married and the Repups want to aloow you to keep more of your money and tell those mentioned above to get a f**k[*] job and stop depending on the rest of us for your 29 dollar a month public housing, food stamps, welfare checks, needless social programs for layabouts who are leeches on those of us who are productive citizens.

Glad to see you sticking around...

We probably agree with lots of things...I'm not in favor of carte blanche welfare...don't like taxes any more than you...and don't agree with the Dems/Obama on lots of issues...

That said...the GOP is not doing any better at lowering taxes....the national debt is higher than an SR-71 because the Prez is , on one hand, waging a war...but on the other hand telling all other americans life is normal and we won't tax you to pay for the war...and none of these things have anything to do with 18% interest rates...

I just want honest debate on this...not Bush-bashing or Obama-bashing...

Col Hogan wrote:

citdog wrote:it is really quite simple. The Dems want to give more of the money you work for to those who want to smoke blunts, play video games, and impregnate women to whom they are not married and the Repups want to aloow you to keep more of your money and tell those mentioned above to get a f**k[*] job and stop depending on the rest of us for your 29 dollar a month public housing, food stamps, welfare checks, needless social programs for layabouts who are leeches on those of us who are productive citizens.

Glad to see you sticking around...

We probably agree with lots of things...I'm not in favor of carte blanche welfare...don't like taxes any more than you...and don't agree with the Dems/Obama on lots of issues...

That said...the GOP is not doing any better at lowering taxes....the national debt is higher than an SR-71 because the Prez is , on one hand, waging a war...but on the other hand telling all other americans life is normal and we won't tax you to pay for the war...and none of these things have anything to do with 18% interest rates...

I just want honest debate on this...not Bush-bashing or Obama-bashing...

they both suck! that's why you should write in Jefferson Davis's Ghost for President!

citdog wrote:

Col Hogan wrote: Glad to see you sticking around...

We probably agree with lots of things...I'm not in favor of carte blanche welfare...don't like taxes any more than you...and don't agree with the Dems/Obama on lots of issues...

That said...the GOP is not doing any better at lowering taxes....the national debt is higher than an SR-71 because the Prez is , on one hand, waging a war...but on the other hand telling all other americans life is normal and we won't tax you to pay for the war...and none of these things have anything to do with 18% interest rates...

I just want honest debate on this...not Bush-bashing or Obama-bashing...

they both suck! that's why you should write in Jefferson Davis's Ghost for President!

I'm listening...tell me more...

Because you're correct...all the decisions is am facing regarding candidates suck right now...

(sorry about this hijack, gang)

Mvemjsunpx wrote: The folly with calling me a "sheep" - As I said, I'm an independent.

You are not 'independent' as your hatred of conservatives prevents you from considering both sides of a debate. An 'independent's' decisions are not determined or influenced by someone or something else.

The folly with calling me a "hippie" - I was born in 1983 & have never smoked marijuana once, so that's out. Leave your ancient cultural wars in the past, please.

I'll concede this label. I was quite busy fathering children in '83. You're not originally from CA, are you?

The folly with calling me "lunatic fringe" - Aren't you the one thinks a certain race of people are genetically inferior?

Not in this lifetime. I will admit that I have probably suggested liberals are genetically inferior, but never race. (...and btw, I do not consider myself 'independent'...as I've said many time's I'm best defined as a Compassionate, Conservative, Capitalist.)

I guess you can call me whatever overly-simplistic label you wish. You will almost certainly be wrong, though.

Here's one LABEL that I am 100% POSITIVE applies:

"Humorless"

travelinman67 wrote:
You are not 'independent' as your hatred of conservatives prevents you from considering both sides of a debate. An 'independent's' decisions are not determined or influenced by someone or something else.

Well, no-one's opinions can truly be undetermined or uninfluenced by outside forces. But, ignoring that abstract philosophical debate, I'm not sure how you proved I'm not an independent. I said I'm an independent liberal. In this context, independent means non-partisan. I don't like many Republicans, but it's not because they're Republicans. It's because of what most of them stand for.

I'll concede this label. I was quite busy fathering children in '83. You're not originally from CA, are you?

No, I have always lived in Missoula. Now that I think about it, that doesn't really refute me being a hippie, does it?

Not in this lifetime. I will admit that I have probably suggested liberals are genetically inferior, but never race. (...and btw, I do not consider myself 'independent'...as I've said many time's I'm best defined as a Compassionate, Conservative, Capitalist.)

Didn't you refer to Germans as genetically inferior on AGS?

Here's one LABEL that I am 100% POSITIVE applies:

"Humorless"

Not at all.

If your previous post was supposed to be considered humor, it was pretty weak.





Anyway, back to the topic…

Barack Obama: not a communist.

Mvemjsunpx wrote: Not at all.

If your previous post was supposed to be considered humor, it was pretty weak.

Anyway, back to the topic…

Barack Obama: not a communist.

Excuse me, oh 24 year old oracle of wisdom...allow me to correct myself...

Here's one LABEL that I am 100% POSITIVE applies:

"Humorless" AND "PIOUS"

One of the nicest summations of numerous studies on this subject...please read pages 19 & 20...and actually think about it before responding.

http://lbms03.cityu.edu.hk/oaps/ss2007-4708-lhc316.pdf

BTW, Obama cannot be characterized as a communist, since he really hasn't revealed any form of visionary foundation for his policies, nor any specifics that could be described as imposing a homogenization of class and equitable distribution of wealth. Merely pitching "a chicken in every pot" and "can't we all just get along" hardly defines the man (as anything other than a "classic" expitious Donk running for office). Nice guy, but still too young.

(...seems to be this year's theme... )

travelinman67 wrote: Here's one LABEL that I am 100% POSITIVE applies:

"Humorless" AND "PIOUS"

Hey, you're the religious guy, not me.

Mvemjsunpx wrote:
Well, no-one's opinions can truly be undetermined or uninfluenced by outside forces. But, ignoring that abstract philosophical debate, I'm not sure how you proved I'm not an independent. I said I'm an independent liberal. In this context, independent means non-partisan. I don't like many Republicans, but it's not because they're Republicans. It's because of what most of them stand for.

I don't like many Republicans but it's not BECAUSE they're Republicans, it's because of what most of them stand for.


That has got to be the most idiotic example of "doublespeak" that I've encountered in quite some time. I got news for you, px, it's what they stand for that MAKES them Republicans.


One more thing: WTF is an "independent liberal"???? Does that mean you just haven't decided between the Hildabeast and Hussein?

How open-minded of you....

BTW, Obama cannot be characterized as a communist, since he really hasn't revealed any form of visionary foundation for his policies, nor any specifics that could be described as imposing a homogenization of class and equitable distribution of wealth. Merely pitching "a chicken in every pot" and "can't we all just get along" hardly defines the man (as anything other than a "classic" expitious Donk running for office). Nice guy, but still too young.

(...seems to be this year's theme... )

You must have missed this one,S2433 The Global Poverty Act. Redistribution tax.

WASHINGTON, February 13, 2008 -- Accuracy in Media editor Cliff Kincaid disclosed today that a hugely expensive bill called the "Global Poverty Act," sponsored by Democratic Senator Barack Obama, was quickly passed by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday and could result in the imposition of a global tax on the United States. Kincaid said that the major media's cover-up of the bill, which makes levels of U.S. foreign aid spending subservient to the dictates of the United Nations, demonstrates the media's desire to see Senator Obama elected to the presidency.

The legislation would commit the U.S. to spending 0.7 percent of gross national product on foreign aid, which amounts to a phenomenal 13-year total of $845 billion over and above what the U.S. already spends.
http://www.aim.org/press-release/aim-sa ... l-tax-bill

http://obama.senate.gov/press/071211-obama_hagel_can/

AZGrizFan wrote: That has got to be the most idiotic example of "doublespeak" that I've encountered in quite some time. I got news for you, px, it's what they stand for that MAKES them Republicans.

That has got to be the most idiotic example of cluelessness I've encountered. Do you honestly think that party affiliation & ideology are joined at the hip? That has rarely been true in American history. Look at the 1950's & early 1960's, when the Democrats were at least as conservative as the Republicans. Look at the Gilded Age, when party affiliation was more determined by ethnicity & region than by ideology. People don't join the 2 big political parties because they totally agree with them, but instead for electability & campaign funding. How many Republicans do you think would join the Libertarian Party or the Constitution Party if those parties gave them a chance of being elected? Same for Democrats & the Green Party. It is true that the main 2 parties have become more ideologically divided in recent years, but there are still conservative Democrats who support the Iraq War & banning abortion while there are pro-choice & anti-tax cut Republicans. Giving a fun example, there was the 2006 senate race in Rhode Island where the Republican candiditate (Lincoln Chafee) was actually a more liberal than the Democratic candidate (Sheldon Whitehouse).

One more thing: WTF is an "independent liberal"???? Does that mean you just haven't decided between the Hildabeast and Hussein?

How open-minded of you....

You really can't see beyond the two-sided "red vs. blue" dichotomy presented by the media, can you? You seem to assume that every liberal has to be a "Donk" & that every conservative has to be a "Conk". Independent means non-partisan. That's it. I think you know, based on my postings on AGS, that I loathe Hillary Clinton. The main reason I supported Obama for the Democratic primary from the beginning was because he's not Hillary Clinton. It's fortunate for me me that he's a good candidate, but I would have still supported him over Hillary or McCain even if I thought he was an unremarkable, "John Kerry"-type of candidate.