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Congratulations South Carolina..!!! Boeing Picks South Carolina Over Seattle for 787 Line ...

Union demands were too much to overcome - Had to go elsewhere....

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... 4MEq77XPfU

Unions. Another nail in the coffin of America.

Congratulations, donks.

A machinists union? I love that one. Where in the hell do they think the majority of those machinists are going to go to work if they weren't working at Boeing? GM?

It seems to me as if the union was trying to bite the hand that fed them and now they got what they deserved and screwed the Seattle economy with their greed.

SeattleGriz wrote:A machinists union? I love that one. Where in the hell do they think the majority of those machinists are going to go to work if they weren't working at Boeing? GM?

It seems to me as if the union was trying to bite the hand that fed them and now they got what they deserved and screwed the Seattle economy with their greed.

Exactly what happened in Anaconda, MT. Now it's a fucking ghost town. Unions....the donk creation that keeps on giving.

guess they figure Obama's just going to take care of them, right?

AZGrizFan wrote:

SeattleGriz wrote:A machinists union? I love that one. Where in the hell do they think the majority of those machinists are going to go to work if they weren't working at Boeing? GM?

It seems to me as if the union was trying to bite the hand that fed them and now they got what they deserved and screwed the Seattle economy with their greed.

Exactly what happened in Anaconda, MT. Now it's a fucking ghost town. Unions....the donk creation that keeps on giving.

guess they figure Obama's just going to take care of them, right?

Sounds like we need a Union Czar!!!

Like so many good ideas designed originally just so people could eat and live...
Has now turned into a Frankenstein of Greed and Corruption

Of the now 120 years of unions - the last 35 years have been terrible for America...

That is the problem with Unions. They want no compromise. They will give no concessions. It's all or nothing, a very greedy and dangerous practice. Unfortunately, they won't learn from this or any other lessons.

Cleets Part 2 wrote:Congratulations South Carolina..!!! Boeing Picks South Carolina Over Seattle for 787 Line ...

Union demands were too much to overcome - Had to go elsewhere....

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... 4MEq77XPfU

Mack truck HQ has been based in Allentown, PA since the compaines inception. About 15 years ago a ton of great jobs were sent to SC due to Union Pressure. Now the entire Mack HQ will move as well. Another example of Unions driving away employment..awesome job

MarkCCU wrote:That is the problem with Unions. They want no compromise. They will give no concessions. It's all or nothing, a very greedy and dangerous practice. Unfortunately, they won't learn from this or any other lessons.

Wrong. The union offered 10 year no-strike deal in exchange for job security. It's management that won't compromise, and continues to rake in bonus money for twiddling their thumbs.

houndawg wrote:

MarkCCU wrote:That is the problem with Unions. They want no compromise. They will give no concessions. It's all or nothing, a very greedy and dangerous practice. Unfortunately, they won't learn from this or any other lessons.

Wrong. The union offered 10 year no-strike deal in exchange for job security. It's management that won't compromise, and continues to rake in bonus money for twiddling their thumbs.

In the Boeing negotiations the Machinists Union offered a no-strike period... but the fear was that when the no-strike period ended they would strike immediately... which is what the union did during the middle of the 787 project...

the moment the no-strike dates expired - they went on stike and killed the entire 787 project....

Again: Congratulations South Carolina

houndawg wrote:

MarkCCU wrote:That is the problem with Unions. They want no compromise. They will give no concessions. It's all or nothing, a very greedy and dangerous practice. Unfortunately, they won't learn from this or any other lessons.

Wrong. The union offered 10 year no-strike deal in exchange for job security. It's management that won't compromise, and continues to rake in bonus money for twiddling their thumbs.

No it's the greed of union leaders...

Union Leader Salaries:


http://laborpains.org/?p=458


http://labornotes.org/node/513/print

@ Colonel's chart...


While not defending any of those salaries, combined they are probably less than the total compesention of the top 3 or 4 Boeing Execs.


Let's just tax ALL compensation a person recieves from any source (salary, benefits, pension, bonus), etc above 100K at 100% and be done with it - but that include Government Contractors too...

AZGrizFan wrote:Unions. Another nail in the coffin of America.

Congratulations, donks.

Ahem, my little brother from Arizona. The unions were not a "Donk" creation. They were a natural reaction to unfair, obtuse and abusive Conk business practices. Go read up a bit on it.

Thank Conks for unions, my friends.

dbackjon wrote: @ Colonel's chart...


While not defending any of those salaries, combined they are probably less than the total compesention of the top 3 or 4 Boeing Execs.


Let's just tax ALL compensation a person recieves from any source (salary, benefits, pension, bonus), etc above 100K at 100% and be done with it - but that include Government Contractors too...

Yeah, because that's only fair. Right? It wouldn't change behavior and wouldn't affect economic growth at all. Right?

Economics should be a required subject in schools beginning the first year of high school, if not earlier. There are far too many economic illiterates in this country.

Col Hogan wrote:

houndawg wrote:
Wrong. The union offered 10 year no-strike deal in exchange for job security. It's management that won't compromise, and continues to rake in bonus money for twiddling their thumbs.

No it's the greed of union leaders...

Union Leader Salaries:


http://laborpains.org/?p=458


http://labornotes.org/node/513/print

How is that greed?

Compare the locations of the people on that list. $140,000 in Detroit is probably worth right around the same as what some of these guys are making in Jersey, DC, NYC or Cali.

Also, as someone else pointed out, the top paid guy on that list made less than 5% of what the CEO of Boeing made in 2008.

The CEO of Boeing made $14.8 million in 2008.

CitadelGrad wrote:

dbackjon wrote: @ Colonel's chart...


While not defending any of those salaries, combined they are probably less than the total compesention of the top 3 or 4 Boeing Execs.


Let's just tax ALL compensation a person recieves from any source (salary, benefits, pension, bonus), etc above 100K at 100% and be done with it - but that include Government Contractors too...

Yeah, because that's only fair. Right? It wouldn't change behavior and wouldn't affect economic growth at all. Right?

Economics should be a required subject in schools beginning the first year of high school, if not earlier. There are far too many economic illiterates in this country.

No, I understand economics quite well. I was just highlighting to Colonel how dumb HIS idea was.

blame the unions if you want... but it's bullshit.

blame south carolina for anti-union laws... creating a "rush to the bottom" wherein they tell companies "we'll let you fuck over our population, treat them like shit, pollute like mad... we don't care, just move here"

you can point the finger at unions... but they aren't the culprit... the culprit is the companies that have basically decided to pit states, cities, regions against each other - and these people are so desperate for economic development that they undercut any real benefit of the company moving there by removing any and all taxes, removing worker rights provisions of all kinds, and basically promising the company that they can do whatever they want. then they get the company, and it's basically pyrrhic victory...

the problem isn't strong unions in northern states - it's weak unions in the south

danefan wrote:

Col Hogan wrote:
No it's the greed of union leaders...

Union Leader Salaries:


http://laborpains.org/?p=458


http://labornotes.org/node/513/print

How is that greed?

Compare the locations of the people on that list. $140,000 in Detroit is probably worth right around the same as what some of these guys are making in Jersey, DC, NYC or Cali.

Also, as someone else pointed out, the top paid guy on that list made less than 5% of what the CEO of Boeing made in 2008.

The CEO of Boeing made $14.8 million in 2008.

eh... dane - this is pretty hypocritical to be honest. i've had a problem with ufcw for a long time over this... their employees are some of the most in need, most likely to have to strike, etc... paying their presidents 300-400k/year is irresponsible... the UAW rule is a very good one, imo. most unions have those rules - and i think they're a very good idea.

while 140 might = 300 in NY/NJ... that should only serve to remind union presidents how much harder it must be for their rank and file making 22-36k...

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

danefan wrote:
How is that greed?

Compare the locations of the people on that list. $140,000 in Detroit is probably worth right around the same as what some of these guys are making in Jersey, DC, NYC or Cali.

Also, as someone else pointed out, the top paid guy on that list made less than 5% of what the CEO of Boeing made in 2008.

The CEO of Boeing made $14.8 million in 2008.

eh... dane - this is pretty hypocritical to be honest. i've had a problem with ufcw for a long time over this... their employees are some of the most in need, most likely to have to strike, etc... paying their presidents 300-400k/year is irresponsible... the UAW rule is a very good one, imo. most unions have those rules - and i think they're a very good idea.

while 140 might = 300 in NY/NJ... that should only serve to remind union presidents how much harder it must be for their rank and file making 22-36k...

Then its the Union members that have the issue. They elect these folks and approve their pay, don't they?

danefan wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
eh... dane - this is pretty hypocritical to be honest. i've had a problem with ufcw for a long time over this... their employees are some of the most in need, most likely to have to strike, etc... paying their presidents 300-400k/year is irresponsible... the UAW rule is a very good one, imo. most unions have those rules - and i think they're a very good idea.

while 140 might = 300 in NY/NJ... that should only serve to remind union presidents how much harder it must be for their rank and file making 22-36k...

Then its the Union members that have the issue. They elect these folks and approve their pay, don't they?

yes and no - union politics, esp in ufcw can be complicated. there is high turnover among the members - as you might expect... the ones who stick around tend to be an "old boys club" - a hard environment to crack... i dunno what the solution is to that... but it bugs me (not nearly as much as the executive pay gap, but it's troubling nonetheless)

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:blame the unions if you want... but it's bullshit.

blame south carolina for anti-union laws... creating a "rush to the bottom" wherein they tell companies "we'll let you fuck over our population, treat them like shit, pollute like mad... we don't care, just move here"

you can point the finger at unions... but they aren't the culprit... the culprit is the companies that have basically decided to pit states, cities, regions against each other - and these people are so desperate for economic development that they undercut any real benefit of the company moving there by removing any and all taxes, removing worker rights provisions of all kinds, and basically promising the company that they can do whatever they want. then they get the company, and it's basically pyrrhic victory...

the problem isn't strong unions in northern states - it's weak unions in the south

That is an EXTREME exaggeration...
South Carolina would love to have low skilled workers get paid $38.00 an hour as would the state of Washington - but the strikes have killed the deal...

I want to agree with you but the Machinist union at Boeing has FUCKED itself and the state of Washington

Franks Tanks wrote:

Cleets Part 2 wrote:Congratulations South Carolina..!!! Boeing Picks South Carolina Over Seattle for 787 Line ...

Union demands were too much to overcome - Had to go elsewhere....

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... 4MEq77XPfU

Mack truck HQ has been based in Allentown, PA since the compaines inception. About 15 years ago a ton of great jobs were sent to SC due to Union Pressure. Now the entire Mack HQ will move as well. Another example of Unions driving away employment..awesome job

So did the Mack executives take a pay cut to reflect lower cost of living in SC?

And in twenty years, when, in order to continue their multi-million dollar salaries, they cite "competitive pressures" and move the jobs out of the country??

Cleets Part 2 wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:blame the unions if you want... but it's bullshit.

blame south carolina for anti-union laws... creating a "rush to the bottom" wherein they tell companies "we'll let you fuck over our population, treat them like shit, pollute like mad... we don't care, just move here"

you can point the finger at unions... but they aren't the culprit... the culprit is the companies that have basically decided to pit states, cities, regions against each other - and these people are so desperate for economic development that they undercut any real benefit of the company moving there by removing any and all taxes, removing worker rights provisions of all kinds, and basically promising the company that they can do whatever they want. then they get the company, and it's basically pyrrhic victory...

the problem isn't strong unions in northern states - it's weak unions in the south

That is an EXTREME exaggeration...
South Carolina would love to have low skilled workers get paid $38.00 an hour as would the state of Washington - but the strikes have killed the deal...

I want to agree with you but the Machinist union at Boeing has FUCKED itself and the state of Washington

no, it's not... i've watched this phenomenon with my own eyes, time after time. it's not IAM that did this, Boeing will try hard to put this on them - but they were thrilled to be able to move this to S. Carolina where workers have no real rights.

houndawg wrote:

MarkCCU wrote:That is the problem with Unions. They want no compromise. They will give no concessions. It's all or nothing, a very greedy and dangerous practice. Unfortunately, they won't learn from this or any other lessons.

Wrong. The union offered 10 year no-strike deal in exchange for job security. It's management that won't compromise, and continues to rake in bonus money for twiddling their thumbs.

Yeah, because the Unions always comprimse for the better good. That's why Detroit is doing so well these days.

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

Cleets Part 2 wrote:
That is an EXTREME exaggeration...
South Carolina would love to have low skilled workers get paid $38.00 an hour as would the state of Washington - but the strikes have killed the deal...

I want to agree with you but the Machinist union at Boeing has FUCKED itself and the state of Washington

no, it's not... i've watched this phenomenon with my own eyes, time after time. it's not IAM that did this, Boeing will try hard to put this on them - but they were thrilled to be able to move this to S. Carolina where workers have no real rights.

No real rights? C'mon dude. Don't make a blanket statement that is 100% Bullshit. What's the issue with a Right to Work state? Unions served thier purpose but they f'd themselves when you'd have a high schooler mkaing $38/hr installing rear view mirrors. Bottom line, in any economy situation, is cost and profit. Do things cost less here vice Seattle? Probably? Can they train no-low skill workers to produce a product and competively pay them? Can they provide long lasting jobs? I'll tell you what, all those men and women that have been laid off from Bosch, America LaFrance, Force Protection, MRAP, etc...would be perfect candidates. I'm sure some of the people that worked for Honda would relocate for a good gig. Like Cleets said, as soon as it can strike, it will. It's done it before. Unions know they have the balls of the companies, in thier hands.
Oh Christ? You probably think the South is a bunch of hicks. Give me a redneck mechanic any day of the week over some high schooler that learn on the job and is grossly overpaid.