Coronavirus COVID-19

[AZGrizFan]

Is that an oversimplistic characterization?

On the casino side - How long is the casino open? How many people are in the casino on average? At peak/capacity? Are lines shorter and more manageable (easier to maintain 6 ft) because of the longer hours?

On the stadium side - How do you handle the lines of people arriving before / leaving after a 2-3 hour event? How many people can you fit in the stadium and still maintain 6 ft of separation? Probably 25% or less. Assigning seats knowing that family group size will vary could be extremely complicated.

Casino's have been open since June 10th, 24 hours a day.

Designated entrances and exits to assist with traffic control into and out of the casino
Mask requirement for all guests and team members
Required daily health screenings for team members
Required thermal temperature scans for guests
-Floor decals are in place to encourage social distancing while waiting for thermal scanning
Any team member or guest with an elevated temperature as defined by the CDC will be required to leave until they are healthy again
Social distancing measures on the gaming floor, with open seats and spaces between slot machines and limited seating at table games
No smoking allowed at table games
Limited restaurants and bars, with designated dining areas
Limited hotel capacity and the removal of unnecessary high-touch surfaces within the rooms.
Enhanced cleaning and sanitizing, including on-demand cleaning from our new TI Clean Team
Plexi-barriers at most guest interaction points
Hand sanitizing stations throughout the property
The maximum capacity of Treasure Island Resort & Casino is limited.
Self-service beverage stations have been removed; coffee and soda are available from waitstaff upon request

There is zero reason a stadium couldn’t do exactly these things.

[Gil Dobie]

Casino's have been open since June 10th, 24 hours a day.

Designated entrances and exits to assist with traffic control into and out of the casino
Mask requirement for all guests and team members
Required daily health screenings for team members
Required thermal temperature scans for guests
-Floor decals are in place to encourage social distancing while waiting for thermal scanning
Any team member or guest with an elevated temperature as defined by the CDC will be required to leave until they are healthy again
Social distancing measures on the gaming floor, with open seats and spaces between slot machines and limited seating at table games
No smoking allowed at table games
Limited restaurants and bars, with designated dining areas
Limited hotel capacity and the removal of unnecessary high-touch surfaces within the rooms.
Enhanced cleaning and sanitizing, including on-demand cleaning from our new TI Clean Team
Plexi-barriers at most guest interaction points
Hand sanitizing stations throughout the property
The maximum capacity of Treasure Island Resort & Casino is limited.
Self-service beverage stations have been removed; coffee and soda are available from waitstaff upon request

There is zero reason a stadium couldn’t do exactly these things.

Might want to try it in the clubhouse too, since the Marlins are having trouble.

[Gil Dobie]

[AZGrizFan]

[GannonFan]

Apparently the Marlins are as inept at personal hygiene as they are at playing baseball, and they really stink at baseball (and my Phils can't do better than going 1-2 in a homestand against that team). This wasn't difficult, and the Marlins found a way to screw it up.

[GannonFan]

Got back from a week at the beach (Ocean City, NJ), first team really outside of my home or work or the areas in between since all of this began. Been working the entire time since it began (work has been doing social distancing, routine cleanings, mask wearing, and temperature checks since mid April - no cases whatsoever in our plant). I'm in the part of PA were things are pretty ok virus rate-wise and NJ's been good as well. My observations:

- Generally people were good on the beach - certainly more spacing on the beach than ever before, and while people didn't wear masks on the beach (or the water) it seemed like people were keeping more than enough distance (much more than 6ft) to not need them. Even in the water people were keeping much more distance than normally.
- On the boardwalk, it was much more of a mixed bag. Certainly were people (my family) who wore masks whenever on the boardwalk (except for when eating ice cream for instance). Were certainly plenty of people not wearing masks. No particular pattern, although it was noticeable that older teenagers were often not wearing masks. Even some people wearing masks didn't do it consistently.
- Rides were open, at least those that were outside and could be cleaned between loadings (the Gravitron, the one that spins around and then lowers the floor so you hang there, was not operating). They were restricting the number of people allowed back on the pier where the rides were - something they should consider even after Covid.
- We were down the same week that friends of my wife were up from Virginia - pretty sure the wife was a Trump voter in '16 and the husband was a Hillary voter in '16 - fairly well off in terms of money. Interesting that they were pooh-poohing the whole Covid thing - they weren't wearing masks except where you had too (inside businesses) and even then they'd pull them off occasionally to breathe. They thought we were a bit odd in that we didn't want to hug or shake hands or get too close the whole week. Really upset that their kids' school district is starting completely online this fall - even have signed up their youngest to go to a Catholic school where they are returning in the classroom instead as a sort of protest enrollment. Definitely an eye opener - all they had to do was wear masks and maintain social distance and they didn't see any reason to do so and seemed put off to even be asked.
- Spoke with the owner of the old time photo place we frequent every year for one of those old time photos (we did Union soldiers this year - probably can't ever do anything other than the Appomattox surrender if we're going to include Confederate soldiers from now on) - he's only doing 33% of the same business year on year - not sure he's going to even be in business next year. Said only places that regularly do counter service (like ice cream places) are doing okay, and even then they are only around 80% of business.

I don't think any of this is really news - people are all over the place in terms of what they believe and what they're willing to do with regards to Covid. Until we get a vaccine, I don't see any of this changing really. Figure that between the federal response, 50 different responses from states, and hundreds/thousands more responses once you get down to the local levels, there's a position for everyone to latch on to and debate from, and we are a nation that loves to argue now. What a cluster.

[93henfan]

Google extends work from home through June 2021.

Woot. Hopefully this influences decision-makers in the federal government.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN24S1M8

[Winterborn]

For those people who are holding out hope for a vaccine, what would be your response (with respect to the policies that have been put in place since COVID hit, Ex: Mask's, social distancing, limited capacities, etc) when or if there is no vaccine or one that is only partially effective?

Do we continue them indefinitely? Put a time limit on them based on ones location? ?????

The reason I ask is that there is looking like there are becoming more strains (7 last I read) of COVID that a vaccine would have to cover (assuming one doesn't give immunity or partial immunity to the others).

[GannonFan]

For those people who are holding out hope for a vaccine, what would be your response (with respect to the policies that have been put in place since COVID hit, Ex: Mask's, social distancing, limited capacities, etc) when or if there is no vaccine or one that is only partially effective?

Do we continue them indefinitely? Put a time limit on them based on ones location? ?????

The reason I ask is that there is looking like there are becoming more strains (7 last I read) of COVID that a vaccine would have to cover (assuming one doesn't give immunity or partial immunity to the others).

I think you keep them long term but you make it clear what's being asked - I think the problem has been inconsistent messaging and people trying to score political points from both sides of the aisle. If you can't maintain 6 ft from someone, wear a mask. And wear masks inside a business except when eating or drinking. Limit capacities, but I like doing it by percentage - saying no more than a specific number doesn't take into account different sizes of spaces. And make businesses commit to frequent cleaning/disinfection. And from there, carry on as you would normally. It doesn't need to be complicated, just be simple and clear with what's needed and go from there.

[UNI88]

Got back from a week at the beach (Ocean City, NJ), first team really outside of my home or work or the areas in between since all of this began. Been working the entire time since it began (work has been doing social distancing, routine cleanings, mask wearing, and temperature checks since mid April - no cases whatsoever in our plant). I'm in the part of PA were things are pretty ok virus rate-wise and NJ's been good as well. My observations:

- Generally people were good on the beach - certainly more spacing on the beach than ever before, and while people didn't wear masks on the beach (or the water) it seemed like people were keeping more than enough distance (much more than 6ft) to not need them. Even in the water people were keeping much more distance than normally.
- On the boardwalk, it was much more of a mixed bag. Certainly were people (my family) who wore masks whenever on the boardwalk (except for when eating ice cream for instance). Were certainly plenty of people not wearing masks. No particular pattern, although it was noticeable that older teenagers were often not wearing masks. Even some people wearing masks didn't do it consistently.
- Rides were open, at least those that were outside and could be cleaned between loadings (the Gravitron, the one that spins around and then lowers the floor so you hang there, was not operating). They were restricting the number of people allowed back on the pier where the rides were - something they should consider even after Covid.
- We were down the same week that friends of my wife were up from Virginia - pretty sure the wife was a Trump voter in '16 and the husband was a Hillary voter in '16 - fairly well off in terms of money. Interesting that they were pooh-poohing the whole Covid thing - they weren't wearing masks except where you had too (inside businesses) and even then they'd pull them off occasionally to breathe. They thought we were a bit odd in that we didn't want to hug or shake hands or get too close the whole week. Really upset that their kids' school district is starting completely online this fall - even have signed up their youngest to go to a Catholic school where they are returning in the classroom instead as a sort of protest enrollment. Definitely an eye opener - all they had to do was wear masks and maintain social distance and they didn't see any reason to do so and seemed put off to even be asked.
- Spoke with the owner of the old time photo place we frequent every year for one of those old time photos (we did Union soldiers this year - probably can't ever do anything other than the Appomattox surrender if we're going to include Confederate soldiers from now on) - he's only doing 33% of the same business year on year - not sure he's going to even be in business next year. Said only places that regularly do counter service (like ice cream places) are doing okay, and even then they are only around 80% of business.

I don't think any of this is really news - people are all over the place in terms of what they believe and what they're willing to do with regards to Covid. Until we get a vaccine, I don't see any of this changing really. Figure that between the federal response, 50 different responses from states, and hundreds/thousands more responses once you get down to the local levels, there's a position for everyone to latch on to and debate from, and we are a nation that loves to argue now. What a cluster.

[UNI88]

For those people who are holding out hope for a vaccine, what would be your response (with respect to the policies that have been put in place since COVID hit, Ex: Mask's, social distancing, limited capacities, etc) when or if there is no vaccine or one that is only partially effective?

Do we continue them indefinitely? Put a time limit on them based on ones location? ?????

The reason I ask is that there is looking like there are becoming more strains (7 last I read) of COVID that a vaccine would have to cover (assuming one doesn't give immunity or partial immunity to the others).

I think you keep them long term but you make it clear what's being asked - I think the problem has been inconsistent messaging and people trying to score political points from both sides of the aisle. If you can't maintain 6 ft from someone, wear a mask. And wear masks inside a business except when eating or drinking. Limit capacities, but I like doing it by percentage - saying no more than a specific number doesn't take into account different sizes of spaces. And make businesses commit to frequent cleaning/disinfection. And from there, carry on as you would normally. It doesn't need to be complicated, just be simple and clear with what's needed and go from there.

An effective vaccine would be great but I don't think we can count on one so I think we're going to be wearing masks and physical distancing for a while. It's easy to write off a percentage of the population to death and other serious health problems if you don't know someone who has been seriously impacted but eventually we're all going to know someone. Masks and distancing are a common sense approach that gives businesses an opportunity to operate. The challenge will be how to increase capacity so that businesses can be profitable and school can be in-person.

[GannonFan]

I think you keep them long term but you make it clear what's being asked - I think the problem has been inconsistent messaging and people trying to score political points from both sides of the aisle. If you can't maintain 6 ft from someone, wear a mask. And wear masks inside a business except when eating or drinking. Limit capacities, but I like doing it by percentage - saying no more than a specific number doesn't take into account different sizes of spaces. And make businesses commit to frequent cleaning/disinfection. And from there, carry on as you would normally. It doesn't need to be complicated, just be simple and clear with what's needed and go from there.

An effective vaccine would be great but I don't think we can count on one so I think we're going to be wearing masks and physical distancing for a while. It's easy to write off a percentage of the population to death and other serious health problems if you don't know someone who has been seriously impacted but eventually we're all going to know someone. Masks and distancing are a common sense approach that gives businesses an opportunity to operate. The challenge will be how to increase capacity so that businesses can be profitable and school can be in-person.

Some businesses were already operating in the red or were close to that before any of this happened - those businesses aren't going to make it (and there are always, even in good times, that don't make it). There's going to be many that will never recover, just have to realize that. As for in-person school, I'm already on board with it. Follow the rules - wear masks, keep social distance as much as possible (hence the wearing of masks in case you can't), and clean regularly. Keep teachers as separated as possible from the kids (big plastic shield at the front of the classroom - find an alternative to walking around and seeing/talking to each kid - harder in elementary than in the older grades, but there'll have to be some compromise). It can be done and we already know what has to be done so get on with it.

[Winterborn]

I think you keep them long term but you make it clear what's being asked - I think the problem has been inconsistent messaging and people trying to score political points from both sides of the aisle. If you can't maintain 6 ft from someone, wear a mask. And wear masks inside a business except when eating or drinking. Limit capacities, but I like doing it by percentage - saying no more than a specific number doesn't take into account different sizes of spaces. And make businesses commit to frequent cleaning/disinfection. And from there, carry on as you would normally. It doesn't need to be complicated, just be simple and clear with what's needed and go from there.

An effective vaccine would be great but I don't think we can count on one so I think we're going to be wearing masks and physical distancing for a while. It's easy to write off a percentage of the population to death and other serious health problems if you don't know someone who has been seriously impacted but eventually we're all going to know someone. Masks and distancing are a common sense approach that gives businesses an opportunity to operate.

I agree for the most part what you and Gannon are saying, that the protocols in place are "officially" going to be here for awhile, but I think in practice we are going to wind up is "un-offically" just writing off a segment of the population due to a couple of factors (of which I could be completely off basis on):

1) I don't there will be an effective vaccine or at least one that covers all the strains and that leads to an approach like the flu vaccine. Whereas the most common or lethal strain is chosen to get the best benefit. This will limit its effectiveness. To note 2019-2020 season the flu vaccine is estimated to be 45% effective against Influenza A & B, 50% effective against influenza B/Victoria viruses and 37% effective against influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 (per a CDC report). https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6907a1.htm

2) Not everybody is going to get the vaccine. I fully expect take rates to be on par or slightly higher than the normal flu vaccine unless it is mandated by law (which is another discussion all on its own). Lets face it, even if it is free or insurance covers it, there is going to be a segment of the population for right or wrong that will not get it. From another CDC study for the 2018-2019 flu season: Vaccination coverage varied by state, ranging from 46.0%–81.1% among children and from 33.9%–56.3% among adults. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/fluvaxview/cove ... imates.htm

3) Finally (to Gannon's point) we are going to have a mess of inconsistent messaging and political posturing that will muddy the waters even further on the mask/social distancing front and as people start either wearing a mask or not wearing one anymore due to either not knowing or knowing somebody with COVID (valid point 88). The message and compliance to any mandates is going to be very mixed at best. A unified message is the best thing we can do for business and for normal interactions again but it is my belief that people will take (and are taking from what I have noticed) this decision into their own hands and it will not matter what the policy is, people will do their own thing.

My question was proposed along the lines that I keep seeing people tout the vaccine as a silver bullet but I do not think reality will bear that out. Now I very much might be too pessimistic (aka realist ) but I wanted to see what the CS.com brain trust was thinking. Appreciate the replies "88 and Gannon to my question. Feel free to pick the apart the above.

[kalm]

An effective vaccine would be great but I don't think we can count on one so I think we're going to be wearing masks and physical distancing for a while. It's easy to write off a percentage of the population to death and other serious health problems if you don't know someone who has been seriously impacted but eventually we're all going to know someone. Masks and distancing are a common sense approach that gives businesses an opportunity to operate.

I agree for the most part what you and Gannon are saying, that the protocols in place are "officially" going to be here for awhile, but I think in practice we are going to wind up is "un-offically" just writing off a segment of the population due to a couple of factors (of which I could be completely off basis on):

1) I don't there will be an effective vaccine or at least one that covers all the strains and that leads to an approach like the flu vaccine. Whereas the most common or lethal strain is chosen to get the best benefit. This will limit its effectiveness. To note 2019-2020 season the flu vaccine is estimated to be 45% effective against Influenza A & B, 50% effective against influenza B/Victoria viruses and 37% effective against influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 (per a CDC report). https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6907a1.htm

2) Not everybody is going to get the vaccine. I fully expect take rates to be on par or slightly higher than the normal flu vaccine unless it is mandated by law (which is another discussion all on its own). Lets face it, even if it is free or insurance covers it, there is going to be a segment of the population for right or wrong that will not get it. From another CDC study for the 2018-2019 flu season: Vaccination coverage varied by state, ranging from 46.0%–81.1% among children and from 33.9%–56.3% among adults. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/fluvaxview/cove ... imates.htm

3) Finally (to Gannon's point) we are going to have a mess of inconsistent messaging and political posturing that will muddy the waters even further on the mask/social distancing front and as people start either wearing a mask or not wearing one anymore due to either not knowing or knowing somebody with COVID (valid point 88). The message and compliance to any mandates is going to be very mixed at best. A unified message is the best thing we can do for business and for normal interactions again but it is my belief that people will take (and are taking from what I have noticed) this decision into their own hands and it will not matter what the policy is, people will do their own thing.

My question was proposed along the lines that I keep seeing people tout the vaccine as a silver bullet but I do not think reality will bear that out. Now I very much might be too pessimistic (aka realist ) but I wanted to see what the CS.com brain trust was thinking. Appreciate the replies "88 and Gannon to my question. Feel free to pick the apart the above.

There’s an awful lot of ink be spilled here to get someone to say...”Well...I ain’t holding my breath.”

[Winterborn]

I agree for the most part what you and Gannon are saying, that the protocols in place are "officially" going to be here for awhile, but I think in practice we are going to wind up is "un-offically" just writing off a segment of the population due to a couple of factors (of which I could be completely off basis on):

1) I don't there will be an effective vaccine or at least one that covers all the strains and that leads to an approach like the flu vaccine. Whereas the most common or lethal strain is chosen to get the best benefit. This will limit its effectiveness. To note 2019-2020 season the flu vaccine is estimated to be 45% effective against Influenza A & B, 50% effective against influenza B/Victoria viruses and 37% effective against influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 (per a CDC report). https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6907a1.htm

2) Not everybody is going to get the vaccine. I fully expect take rates to be on par or slightly higher than the normal flu vaccine unless it is mandated by law (which is another discussion all on its own). Lets face it, even if it is free or insurance covers it, there is going to be a segment of the population for right or wrong that will not get it. From another CDC study for the 2018-2019 flu season: Vaccination coverage varied by state, ranging from 46.0%–81.1% among children and from 33.9%–56.3% among adults. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/fluvaxview/cove ... imates.htm

3) Finally (to Gannon's point) we are going to have a mess of inconsistent messaging and political posturing that will muddy the waters even further on the mask/social distancing front and as people start either wearing a mask or not wearing one anymore due to either not knowing or knowing somebody with COVID (valid point 88). The message and compliance to any mandates is going to be very mixed at best. A unified message is the best thing we can do for business and for normal interactions again but it is my belief that people will take (and are taking from what I have noticed) this decision into their own hands and it will not matter what the policy is, people will do their own thing.

My question was proposed along the lines that I keep seeing people tout the vaccine as a silver bullet but I do not think reality will bear that out. Now I very much might be too pessimistic (aka realist ) but I wanted to see what the CS.com brain trust was thinking. Appreciate the replies "88 and Gannon to my question. Feel free to pick the apart the above.

There’s an awful lot of ink be spilled here to get someone to say...”Well...I ain’t holding my breath.”

I had ink to spill and nothing like typing something out to get a grasp of where one's thought process are going.

[kalm]

There’s an awful lot of ink be spilled here to get someone to say...”Well...I ain’t holding my breath.”

I had ink to spill and nothing like typing something out to get a grasp of where one's thought process are going.

Just bustin your chops WB. I agree.

[Winterborn]

I had ink to spill and nothing like typing something out to get a grasp of where one's thought process are going.

Just bustin your chops WB. I agree.

Somebody needs to.

I wouldn't have typed it if I didn't expect some type of feedback, good or bad. It is something I have been thinking about for a few weeks and I hadn't seen it mentioned here before, so I figured I would pose the question.

[UNI88]

An effective vaccine would be great but I don't think we can count on one so I think we're going to be wearing masks and physical distancing for a while. It's easy to write off a percentage of the population to death and other serious health problems if you don't know someone who has been seriously impacted but eventually we're all going to know someone. Masks and distancing are a common sense approach that gives businesses an opportunity to operate.

I agree for the most part what you and Gannon are saying, that the protocols in place are "officially" going to be here for awhile, but I think in practice we are going to wind up is "un-offically" just writing off a segment of the population due to a couple of factors (of which I could be completely off basis on):

1) I don't there will be an effective vaccine or at least one that covers all the strains and that leads to an approach like the flu vaccine. Whereas the most common or lethal strain is chosen to get the best benefit. This will limit its effectiveness. To note 2019-2020 season the flu vaccine is estimated to be 45% effective against Influenza A & B, 50% effective against influenza B/Victoria viruses and 37% effective against influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 (per a CDC report). https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6907a1.htm

2) Not everybody is going to get the vaccine. I fully expect take rates to be on par or slightly higher than the normal flu vaccine unless it is mandated by law (which is another discussion all on its own). Lets face it, even if it is free or insurance covers it, there is going to be a segment of the population for right or wrong that will not get it. From another CDC study for the 2018-2019 flu season: Vaccination coverage varied by state, ranging from 46.0%–81.1% among children and from 33.9%–56.3% among adults. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/fluvaxview/cove ... imates.htm

3) Finally (to Gannon's point) we are going to have a mess of inconsistent messaging and political posturing that will muddy the waters even further on the mask/social distancing front and as people start either wearing a mask or not wearing one anymore due to either not knowing or knowing somebody with COVID (valid point 88). The message and compliance to any mandates is going to be very mixed at best. A unified message is the best thing we can do for business and for normal interactions again but it is my belief that people will take (and are taking from what I have noticed) this decision into their own hands and it will not matter what the policy is, people will do their own thing.

My question was proposed along the lines that I keep seeing people tout the vaccine as a silver bullet but I do not think reality will bear that out. Now I very much might be too pessimistic (aka realist ) but I wanted to see what the CS.com brain trust was thinking. Appreciate the replies "88 and Gannon to my question. Feel free to pick the apart the above.

I can't really disagree with anything here. How many other coronaviruses have effective vaccines? The inconsistent messaging and partisan leadership has contributed to people doing their own thing (either not wearing a mask or scolding other people for not wearing a mask). If we have another shutdown they will share responsibility for it. I wish people would just wear a mask when in close proximity to others (even briefly) and try to maintain 6 ft of separation when possible. I do think we're going to see debate and evolving standards on how much distance you need with a mask on, especially when you factor in time duration. This has a huge impact on schools and restaurants and it's going to be harder to have outdoor seating as the temperature drops and rains increase in the fall.

[kalm]

I agree for the most part what you and Gannon are saying, that the protocols in place are "officially" going to be here for awhile, but I think in practice we are going to wind up is "un-offically" just writing off a segment of the population due to a couple of factors (of which I could be completely off basis on):

1) I don't there will be an effective vaccine or at least one that covers all the strains and that leads to an approach like the flu vaccine. Whereas the most common or lethal strain is chosen to get the best benefit. This will limit its effectiveness. To note 2019-2020 season the flu vaccine is estimated to be 45% effective against Influenza A & B, 50% effective against influenza B/Victoria viruses and 37% effective against influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 (per a CDC report). https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6907a1.htm

2) Not everybody is going to get the vaccine. I fully expect take rates to be on par or slightly higher than the normal flu vaccine unless it is mandated by law (which is another discussion all on its own). Lets face it, even if it is free or insurance covers it, there is going to be a segment of the population for right or wrong that will not get it. From another CDC study for the 2018-2019 flu season: Vaccination coverage varied by state, ranging from 46.0%–81.1% among children and from 33.9%–56.3% among adults. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/fluvaxview/cove ... imates.htm

3) Finally (to Gannon's point) we are going to have a mess of inconsistent messaging and political posturing that will muddy the waters even further on the mask/social distancing front and as people start either wearing a mask or not wearing one anymore due to either not knowing or knowing somebody with COVID (valid point 88). The message and compliance to any mandates is going to be very mixed at best. A unified message is the best thing we can do for business and for normal interactions again but it is my belief that people will take (and are taking from what I have noticed) this decision into their own hands and it will not matter what the policy is, people will do their own thing.

My question was proposed along the lines that I keep seeing people tout the vaccine as a silver bullet but I do not think reality will bear that out. Now I very much might be too pessimistic (aka realist ) but I wanted to see what the CS.com brain trust was thinking. Appreciate the replies "88 and Gannon to my question. Feel free to pick the apart the above.

I can't really disagree with anything here. How many other coronaviruses have effective vaccines? The inconsistent messaging and partisan leadership has contributed to people doing their own thing (either not wearing a mask or scolding other people for not wearing a mask). If we have another shutdown they will share responsibility for it. I wish people would just wear a mask when in close proximity to others (even briefly) and try to maintain 6 ft of separation when possible. I do think we're going to see debate and evolving standards on how much distance you need with a mask on, especially when you factor in time duration. This has a huge impact on schools and restaurants and it's going to be harder to have outdoor seating as the temperature drops and rains increase in the fall.

The cynic in me thinks there’s a hesitation by the Dems to let Trump hang himself over Covid politics. This won’t be gone by November.

The best to hope for is a decline in acceleration of infections followed by hospitalizations and deaths continuing to rise and lag slowly once we’re on the downward side. Economy is similar.

And that’s assuming no additional waves.

We are rudderless.

[AZGrizFan]

I can't really disagree with anything here. How many other coronaviruses have effective vaccines? The inconsistent messaging and partisan leadership has contributed to people doing their own thing (either not wearing a mask or scolding other people for not wearing a mask). If we have another shutdown they will share responsibility for it. I wish people would just wear a mask when in close proximity to others (even briefly) and try to maintain 6 ft of separation when possible. I do think we're going to see debate and evolving standards on how much distance you need with a mask on, especially when you factor in time duration. This has a huge impact on schools and restaurants and it's going to be harder to have outdoor seating as the temperature drops and rains increase in the fall.

The cynic in me thinks there’s a hesitation by the Dems to let Trump hang himself over Covid politics. This won’t be gone by November.

The best to hope for is a decline in acceleration of infections followed by hospitalizations and deaths continuing to rise and lag slowly once we’re on the downward side. Economy is similar.

And that’s assuming no additional waves.

We are rudderless.

Dems WANT this to hang on til November. The last thing they want it to see the economy mostly recover prior to the election. THAT is the politics of it. And the reality is, if we don’t just put on our big boy pants and restart this fucker, the damage that’ll be done and continues to be done will be so long term NO president will be able to recover it. Businesses are closing up shop left and right. Unemployment #’s are going back up. More and more people are becoming dependent on the government for survival. Sure, Dems love it because it looks bad for Trump—it also give them the chance to force some of their more extreme policy planks down peoples throats (living wage, for example). Some here have been saying for months (some literally since Trump was elected) that the Dems would rather see the country fail than to allow Trump to succeed...well, we’re witnessing it first hand in real time. And it ain’t pretty.

At the end of the day, this is twice as dangerous as the flu. We are going to have to decided whether we want to cower in our basements forever or get on with living, having taken on the “burden” of a slight additional risk in walking out the door each morning. The people who need to be working need to get out and work. Businesses need to be open. Because what we have now? It’s not sustainable. It’s destroying the country, and it’s causing more deaths than the virus.

[kalm]

The cynic in me thinks there’s a hesitation by the Dems to let Trump hang himself over Covid politics. This won’t be gone by November.

The best to hope for is a decline in acceleration of infections followed by hospitalizations and deaths continuing to rise and lag slowly once we’re on the downward side. Economy is similar.

And that’s assuming no additional waves.

We are rudderless.

Dems WANT this to hang on til November. The last thing they want it to see the economy mostly recover prior to the election. THAT is the politics of it. And the reality is, if we don’t just put on our big boy pants and restart this fucker, the damage that’ll be done and continues to be done will be so long term NO president will be able to recover it. Businesses are closing up shop left and right. Unemployment #’s are going back up. More and more people are becoming dependent on the government for survival. Sure, Dems love it because it looks bad for Trump—it also give them the chance to force some of their more extreme policy planks down peoples throats (living wage, for example). Some here have been saying for months (some literally since Trump was elected) that the Dems would rather see the country fail than to allow Trump to succeed...well, we’re witnessing it first hand in real time. And it ain’t pretty.

At the end of the day, this is twice as dangerous as the flu. We are going to have to decided whether we want to cower in our basements forever or get on with living, having taken on the “burden” of a slight additional risk in walking out the door each morning. The people who need to be working need to get out and work. Businesses need to be open. Because what we have now? It’s not sustainable. It’s destroying the country, and it’s causing more deaths than the virus.

How is opening back up now going to save the economy?

1). voluntary social distancing for both the healthy and compromised
2). Mandated restrictions in flare ups
3. Lost production even for those who recover or are quarantined.
4). Long term health effects and costs
5). What’s the tolerance level for deaths?




3).

[Gil Dobie]

The cynic in me thinks there’s a hesitation by the Dems to let Trump hang himself over Covid politics. This won’t be gone by November.

The best to hope for is a decline in acceleration of infections followed by hospitalizations and deaths continuing to rise and lag slowly once we’re on the downward side. Economy is similar.

And that’s assuming no additional waves.

We are rudderless.

Dems WANT this to hang on til November. The last thing they want it to see the economy mostly recover prior to the election. THAT is the politics of it. And the reality is, if we don’t just put on our big boy pants and restart this fucker, the damage that’ll be done and continues to be done will be so long term NO president will be able to recover it. Businesses are closing up shop left and right. Unemployment #’s are going back up. More and more people are becoming dependent on the government for survival. Sure, Dems love it because it looks bad for Trump—it also give them the chance to force some of their more extreme policy planks down peoples throats (living wage, for example). Some here have been saying for months (some literally since Trump was elected) that the Dems would rather see the country fail than to allow Trump to succeed...well, we’re witnessing it first hand in real time. And it ain’t pretty.

At the end of the day, this is twice as dangerous as the flu. We are going to have to decided whether we want to cower in our basements forever or get on with living, having taken on the “burden” of a slight additional risk in walking out the door each morning. The people who need to be working need to get out and work. Businesses need to be open. Because what we have now? It’s not sustainable. It’s destroying the country, and it’s causing more deaths than the virus.

What's not open? Pretty much any business that wants to be open is open around here, albeit Covid restrictions. Schools and attendance at sports are about the only thing I don't see open at this point.

[bobbythekidd]

And the reality is, if we don’t just put on our big boy pants and restart this fucker.

You keep saying this and I don't get it. What isn't open around you that is going to have such a massive impact on the economy? Here's what I see still not operating:
1. Movie Theaters
2. Bars

Neither of these type of establishments are key drivers of our economy. Hell, statistically, they don't even show up. What am I missing?

[AZGrizFan]

And the reality is, if we don’t just put on our big boy pants and restart this fucker.

You keep saying this and I don't get it. What isn't open around you that is going to have such a massive impact on the economy? Here's what I see still not operating:
1. Movie Theaters
2. Bars

Neither of these type of establishments are key drivers of our economy. Hell, statistically, they don't even show up. What am I missing?

Well Bobby, there’s 18 million people out of work who were working 90 days ago, so you tell me? Even the business that ARE open are operating at a much diminished capacity. And there’s thousands of businesses that’ll NEVER open up again because of this.

[AZGrizFan]

Dems WANT this to hang on til November. The last thing they want it to see the economy mostly recover prior to the election. THAT is the politics of it. And the reality is, if we don’t just put on our big boy pants and restart this fucker, the damage that’ll be done and continues to be done will be so long term NO president will be able to recover it. Businesses are closing up shop left and right. Unemployment #’s are going back up. More and more people are becoming dependent on the government for survival. Sure, Dems love it because it looks bad for Trump—it also give them the chance to force some of their more extreme policy planks down peoples throats (living wage, for example). Some here have been saying for months (some literally since Trump was elected) that the Dems would rather see the country fail than to allow Trump to succeed...well, we’re witnessing it first hand in real time. And it ain’t pretty.

At the end of the day, this is twice as dangerous as the flu. We are going to have to decided whether we want to cower in our basements forever or get on with living, having taken on the “burden” of a slight additional risk in walking out the door each morning. The people who need to be working need to get out and work. Businesses need to be open. Because what we have now? It’s not sustainable. It’s destroying the country, and it’s causing more deaths than the virus.

What's not open? Pretty much any business that wants to be open is open around here, albeit Covid restrictions. Schools and attendance at sports are about the only thing I don't see open at this point.

Right...those pesky Covid restrictions....