"Creationism is not appropriate for children"

[JohnStOnge]

Evolution is a fact, but natural selection is the theory behind it. We can and do observe evolution in real-time with microorganisms.

I think you've got the fact/theory idea reversed. That natural selection occurs and results in changes in population characteristics is not a theory. It is known to be a fact as it has been directly observed. Also evolution is a fact in the sense that changes in population characteristics have been directly observed. In fact a population that is observed to change due to changes introduced through natural selection has evolved. It has changed. The classic melanistic moth thing is an example (see http://www.christs.cam.ac.uk/darwin200/ ... page_id=g5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

What's not known to be fact is the overall theory of evolution. That is the theory that the kind of change...or evolution...that has been seen in real time with microorganisms as well as with multicellular organisms such as the moth and darwin's finches (changes in predominant occurence of beak morphology) led to changes such as populations of single celled organisms giving rise to multicellular organisms and eventually...over billions of years...to populations of such things as human beings and blue whales.

Anyway, population change through natural selection is known to be a fact. The overall theory of evolution is not.

[JohnStOnge]

Remember, guys, the point is that it's a real stretch to say that parents teaching their kids creationism will harm the society by depriving it of competent people to fill various science and technology roles. That's what the science guy appeared to be saying and it's a false alarm.

First of all, it's probably true that the overwhelming majority of people who's parents tell them that nowadays end up not believing that Genesis is a literal history of how things came to be anyway. And even if they do grow up to believe it, again, that's not going to hamper their efforts to become engineers and doctors and such. Not in itself. Prejudice against them for their beliefs is more likely to hamper their ability to contribute than their actual belief in that regard will.

[kalm]

Remember, guys, the point is that it's a real stretch to say that parents teaching their kids creationism will harm the society by depriving it of competent people to fill various science and technology roles. That's what the science guy appeared to be saying and it's a false alarm.

First of all, it's probably true that the overwhelming majority of people who's parents tell them that nowadays end up not believing that Genesis is a literal history of how things came to be anyway. And even if they do grow up to believe it, again, that's not going to hamper their efforts to become engineers and doctors and such. Not in itself. Prejudice against them for their beliefs is more likely to hamper their ability to contribute than their actual belief in that regard will.

A belief that the universe is black and white and that their answers are fact will cause them to be shitty scientists, not to mention the greater propensity to be shitty people... which will further cause them to be shitty professionals. That's the point.

[BlueHen86]

[BlueHen86]

[Pwns]

We have been able to create new, self-replicating life (synthetic bacteria) out of chemicals for years now.

And when you say "chemicals", you are referring to organic matter. The bacteria are not made just from water, methane, nitrogen gas, and energy. You still have a chicken-and-egg problem.

Also, the operative word here is "create". The process is controlled with ideal conditions.

Maybe not now, but it's certainly imaginable. If we want to stay world leaders in technology, we gotta keep thinkin' big and see if we can push the limit. In 200, 100, hell maybe even 50 years, why can't we have the ability to replicate a billion-years in a lab?

What do you mean by "replicate a billion years in a lab"?

[Pwns]

A belief that the universe is black and white and that their answers are fact will cause them to be shitty scientists, not to mention the greater propensity to be shitty people... which will further cause them to be shitty professionals. That's the point.

If you teach someone intelligent design you are not necessarily teaching someone that their answers are fact. I don't see what is so had to understand about that.

This thread is a testament to what a sacred cow evolution has become. I don't care that my kids aren't going to learn physics or computer science. I don't care if algebra is removed from schools. But don't do anything that resembles intelligent design in any form. That's the worst thing imagineable.

[BlueHen86]

A belief that the universe is black and white and that their answers are fact will cause them to be shitty scientists, not to mention the greater propensity to be shitty people... which will further cause them to be shitty professionals. That's the point.

If you teach someone intelligent design you are not necessarily teaching someone that their answers are fact. I don't see what is so had to understand about that.

This thread is a testament to what a sacred cow evolution has become. I don't care that my kids aren't going to learn physics or computer science. I don't care if algebra is removed from schools. But don't do anything that resembles intelligent design in any form. That's the worst thing imagineable.

[jmufan]

A belief that the universe is black and white and that their answers are fact will cause them to be shitty scientists, not to mention the greater propensity to be shitty people... which will further cause them to be shitty professionals. That's the point.

If you teach someone intelligent design you are not necessarily teaching someone that their answers are fact. I don't see what is so had to understand about that.

This thread is a testament to what a sacred cow evolution has become. I don't care that my kids aren't going to learn physics or computer science. I don't care if algebra is removed from schools. But don't do anything that resembles intelligent design in any form. That's the worst thing imagineable.

Teaching evolution also does not support fact, if it was fact, it wouldn't be called a theory, so why is it taught?

[BlueHen86]

If you teach someone intelligent design you are not necessarily teaching someone that their answers are fact. I don't see what is so had to understand about that.

This thread is a testament to what a sacred cow evolution has become. I don't care that my kids aren't going to learn physics or computer science. I don't care if algebra is removed from schools. But don't do anything that resembles intelligent design in any form. That's the worst thing imagineable.

Teaching evolution also does not support fact, if it was fact, it wouldn't be called a theory, so why is it taught?

Are you suggesting that anything that is a theory shouldn't be taught?

[Pwns]

Are you suggesting that anything that is a theory shouldn't be taught?

No, that only applies to theories that the Darwin fanboys don't approve of.

[Vidav]

If you teach someone intelligent design you are not necessarily teaching someone that their answers are fact. I don't see what is so had to understand about that.

This thread is a testament to what a sacred cow evolution has become. I don't care that my kids aren't going to learn physics or computer science. I don't care if algebra is removed from schools. But don't do anything that resembles intelligent design in any form. That's the worst thing imagineable.

Teaching evolution also does not support fact, if it was fact, it wouldn't be called a theory, so why is it taught?

You are one dumb motherfucker.

Learn what the meaning of "theory" is in science then come back to the grownup discussion.

[jmufan]

Teaching evolution also does not support fact, if it was fact, it wouldn't be called a theory, so why is it taught?

You are one dumb motherfucker.

Learn what the meaning of "theory" is in science then come back to the grownup discussion.

Anyone that resorts to name calling obviously isn't smart or grown up.

[jmufan]

Teaching evolution also does not support fact, if it was fact, it wouldn't be called a theory, so why is it taught?

Are you suggesting that anything that is a theory shouldn't be taught?

Nope, not saying that at all, I have a problem when people try to claim that you shouldn't teach intelligent design because they say it isn't proven. Guess what, evolution has yet to be proven, but it has become standard teaching, while the other has been demonized.

You are not doing a disservice by teaching your children creation. That is like saying if you teach evolution you are doing your children a disservice. Of all the Christians, Muslims, etc... I know believe in Creation, and hold fast to science teaching. They love science and all that it offers, but also love the idea that there is a God who created it all. So what is wrong with that?

[BlueHen86]

Are you suggesting that anything that is a theory shouldn't be taught?

Nope, not saying that at all, I have a problem when people try to claim that you shouldn't teach intelligent design because they say it isn't proven. Guess what, evolution has yet to be proven, but it has become standard teaching, while the other has been demonized.

You are not doing a disservice by teaching your children creation. That is like saying if you teach evolution you are doing your children a disservice. Of all the Christians, Muslims, etc... I know believe in Creation, and hold fast to science teaching. They love science and all that it offers, but also love the idea that there is a God who created it all. So what is wrong with that?

Intelligent design is just made up fantasy crap. If you don't like evolution come up with a better theory, don't make something up and then try and give it equal status to something based in science.

The inability to travel faster than the speed of light is also a theory. Should we also teach about warp drive because we don't like Einstein?

[D1B]

You are one dumb motherfucker.

Learn what the meaning of "theory" is in science then come back to the grownup discussion.

Anyone that resorts to name calling obviously isn't smart or grown up.

You're another christian moron.

[kalm]

Are you suggesting that anything that is a theory shouldn't be taught?

No, that only applies to theories that the Darwin fanboys don't approve of.

Are those who favor creationism ok with it being taught as a theory? 'God may have created the universe as the bible suggests, but perhaps not...'

[MSUDuo]

No, that only applies to theories that the Darwin fanboys don't approve of.

Are those who favor creationism ok with it being taught as a theory? 'God may have created the universe as the bible suggests, but perhaps not...'

Actually, yes. We don't know so don't act like we know. Feel free to believe what you want

[kalm]

Are those who favor creationism ok with it being taught as a theory? 'God may have created the universe as the bible suggests, but perhaps not...'

Actually, yes. We don't know so don't act like we know. Feel free to believe what you want

Really? You're not sure if the bible is correct?

[Vidav]

You are one dumb motherfucker.

Learn what the meaning of "theory" is in science then come back to the grownup discussion.

Anyone that resorts to name calling obviously isn't smart or grown up.

You had no response to the fact that you don't know what a scientific theory is so you focused on the other part of the post. Good job

[jmufan]

Nope, not saying that at all, I have a problem when people try to claim that you shouldn't teach intelligent design because they say it isn't proven. Guess what, evolution has yet to be proven, but it has become standard teaching, while the other has been demonized.

You are not doing a disservice by teaching your children creation. That is like saying if you teach evolution you are doing your children a disservice. Of all the Christians, Muslims, etc... I know believe in Creation, and hold fast to science teaching. They love science and all that it offers, but also love the idea that there is a God who created it all. So what is wrong with that?

Intelligent design is just made up fantasy crap. If you don't like evolution come up with a better theory, don't make something up and then try and give it equal status to something based in science.

The inability to travel faster than the speed of light is also a theory. Should we also teach about warp drive because we don't like Einstein?

You just proved the point. Evolution is a made up theory that has yet to be proven. But yet it is taught. Intelligent design is also a theory that many believe has yet to be proven, but because evolutionist tend to disagree that a God created all things, they attack it calling it "fantasy crap," or they resort to name calling. I could just as easily say that evolution is "fantasy crap," after all it does take a lot of fantasy for one to take a single bone and create either a human or an animal and then try to pawn it off as the next great thing in evolution.

[Vidav]

Intelligent design is just made up fantasy crap. If you don't like evolution come up with a better theory, don't make something up and then try and give it equal status to something based in science.

The inability to travel faster than the speed of light is also a theory. Should we also teach about warp drive because we don't like Einstein?

You just proved the point. Evolution is a made up theory that has yet to be proven. But yet it is taught. Intelligent design is also a theory that many believe has yet to be proven, but because evolutionist tend to disagree that a God created all things, they attack it calling it "fantasy crap," or they resort to name calling. I could just as easily say that evolution is "fantasy crappy," after all it does take a lot of fantasy for one to take a single bone and create either a human or an animal and then try to pawn it off as the next great thing in evolution.

This time I'm going to say this without calling names.

You should educate yourself on evolution. You obviously have no idea at all what it is.

[jmufan]

You just proved the point. Evolution is a made up theory that has yet to be proven. But yet it is taught. Intelligent design is also a theory that many believe has yet to be proven, but because evolutionist tend to disagree that a God created all things, they attack it calling it "fantasy crap," or they resort to name calling. I could just as easily say that evolution is "fantasy crappy," after all it does take a lot of fantasy for one to take a single bone and create either a human or an animal and then try to pawn it off as the next great thing in evolution.

This time I'm going to say this without calling names.

You should educate yourself on evolution. You obviously have no idea at all what it is.

You are obviously biased and view anyone who thinks different than you as someone who isn't educated.

Evolution does happen in various forms, things evolve all the time, but things deteriorate all the time as well.

[SeattleGriz]

We should teach our children to be critical thinkers. Creationism isn't critical thought.

It depends on how you think about it. It's one thing to say "The Bible said God created man and the heavens and the Earth and that is that".

As far as I'm concerned if you can't show me how the first self-replicating biomolecules formed from inorganic matter and how those molecules in turn formed the first cells and how those cells became the first multicellular organisms then believing in creationism is not the same thing as denying gravity exists. And of course ID isn't really scientifically testable, but who cares. The many-worlds hypothesis isn't either and no one would say that isn't science.

Which brings me to what Cleets says....

Bioinformatics. That is where the ID field is really looking. Trying to show that the accumulation and transfer of data just didn't happen by chance. It is too ordered.

On a separate note as the resident ID expert, I haven't ever read anything saying evolution is incorrect, just the complaint that Darwinists twist data and invent workarounds to make their results fit into Darwinian Evolution.

[SeattleGriz]

I've been thinking about this one for a couple days now and gawdamn that is profound.

Were that in the Bible - we'd be a vastly different planet today - VASTLY DIFFERENT
And by the way that sentiment is what Galileo believed and he was under house arrest because of it

That may not be in the Bible, but that sentiment is in the Bible and it is actually what drove the mass implementation of the scientific theory. The scientific theory was fine tuned and mass produced in monasteries and church universities by those who believe God wants them to know the unknown.