Jesus had a wife

[JoltinJoe]

Myopia. Only to a person already brainwashed into the author's viewpoint. I've long ago deeply considered all of his nonsense and moved past it.

No one expects you to get it. You're in the cult of internet-based atheism.

As for the word "cult":

Cult doesn't necessarily involve size.

cult
kəlt/Submit
noun
1.
a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
"the cult of St. Olaf"

In the sense that D1B is using it, as a pejorative, it certainly does. "Cult" has numerous definitions associated with it, and you cited merely the first one. If THAT is all that D1B intends when he uses the word "cult," I'm fine with it. But D1B is using it as a pejorative, in the sense that cult is most commonly used today:

a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous

When you are speaking about a belief system to which over 2 billion people worldwide ascribe, the pejorative D1B employs is inapplicable.

Now, it's nice you are familiar with the first dictionary definition of cult, but the Scholastic Aptitude Test tests your familiarity with the second most or third most common use of a word. Knowing the difference between the most commonly-used definition, and the second or third use of the word, is the difference between attending a private college or a directional university.

[D1B]

No. Somebody told somebody who told somebody something about he rose from the dead. Not an eyewitness account. And don't even get started on scribes adding their own version (like the last 12 verses of Mark) when they made a copy.

Fact is, if this person existed and rose bodily, (and therefore has mass and is constrained by c), from the grave he is no more than 2,000 light years from here and most likely not even a quarter of that distance. Our instruments are getting sensitive enough that we may be able to find him within the next decade.

First of all, simply because testimonies are recorded by another doesn't change the fact the testimonies given are based on eye-witness accounts.

The only writings on Christ were four poorly written gospels that give totally different accounts of his life. They are unsigned and undated and the authors, who are unknown, either were talking about two different people or were full of shit like all myth makers.

They never met Christ.

[kalm]

Cult doesn't necessarily involve size.

In the sense that D1B is using it, as a pejorative, it certainly does. "Cult" has numerous definitions associated with it, and you cited merely the first one. If THAT is all that D1B intends when he uses the word "cult," I'm fine with it. But D1B is using it as a pejorative, in the sense that cult is most commonly used today:

a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous

When you are speaking about a belief system to which over 2 billion people worldwide ascribe, the pejorative D1B employs is inapplicable.

Now, it's nice you are familiar with the first dictionary definition of cult, but the Scholastic Aptitude Test tests your familiarity with the second most or third most use of a word. Knowing the difference between the most commonly-used definition, and the second or third most commonly use of the word, is the difference between attending a private college or a directional university.

Which is why I qualified my remark...but your arrogance saw that fly right over your head as usual. The number of Catholics world wide is about as relevant or impressive as a private school education.

Do you like apples?

[JoltinJoe]

Myopia. Only to a person already brainwashed into the author's viewpoint. I've long ago deeply considered all of his nonsense and moved past it.

No one expects you to get it. You're in the cult of internet-based atheism.

As for the word "cult":

Hits people like you (arrogant and delusional) straight in the chest. I Can tell because you're lashing out, calling names and employing futile school yard debate schemes.

Praise Apollo!

I'm just turning the tables on you, paraphrasing names you have long used against me, and you say it is "lashing out," "calling names," and "employing futile school yard debate schemes." These are are your tactics; I'm just having a little fun turning them against you. So you admit you call names, lash out and employ futile school-yard debate schemes.

[D1B]

Cult doesn't necessarily involve size.

In the sense that D1B is using it, as a pejorative, it certainly does. "Cult" has numerous definitions associated with it, and you cited merely the first one. If THAT is all that D1B intends when he uses the word "cult," I'm fine with it. But D1B is using it as a pejorative, in the sense that cult is most commonly used today:

a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous

When you are speaking about a belief system to which over 2 billion people worldwide ascribe, the pejorative D1B employs is inapplicable.

Now, it's nice you are familiar with the first dictionary definition of cult, but the Scholastic Aptitude Test tests your familiarity with the second most or third most common use of a word. Knowing the difference between the most commonly-used definition, and the second or third use of the word, is the difference between attending a private college or a directional university.

Joe has his dictionary and his copy of US News & World Report Annual Best Colleges in America! ooooh. Watch out!

By every definition of the term, the Catholic Church is a cult.

Imagine for a moment that I started a church; and our doctrinal statement contained the following articles:

1. We are the only church that has the truth and there is salvation in no other.

2. You are incapable of interpreting the Bible yourself. Only I and those whom I appoint can correctly interpret the Bible for you. Therefore, you should not read the Bible and you must not question our authority or our interpretations of it.

3. As the head of the church, when I speak on matters of faith and morals I am incapable of deceiving or being deceived. I am immune from error. I am the vicar of Christ on earth.

4. Only I and those I appoint have the authority to forgive sin.

5. My mother was born without sin, she lived a perfectly sinless life, She is the Queen of Heaven and is Co-Redemtrix along with Christ.

6. You must go to my mother to get to Jesus.

7. I can pray over a piece of bread and a glass of wine and as a result, it turns into the actual (literal) body and blood of Jesus Christ!

8. The death of Jesus on the cross was not sufficient to pay for your sin. You must first go the a place of fire for an indeterminate amount of time for further purification. And then you must go to a treasure-chest where all of the good deeds done by all the saints who have gone before you will be the final merit you need before you can enter heaven.

9. Our church tradition has equal or more authority than Scripture.

10. If you do not agree with these tenets and every one of the more than 125 other articles of faith (that read like complex and difficult to understand legal documents) we have the authority and the power to condemn your soul to eternal damnation, and we will!

If I started a church like that every cult watcher in the world would condemn it and rightly so. This is just a small sample of the literally hundreds of heretical doctrines held by Roman Catholicism.

[D1B]

Hits people like you (arrogant and delusional) straight in the chest. I Can tell because you're lashing out, calling names and employing futile school yard debate schemes.

Praise Apollo!

I'm just turning the tables on you, paraphrasing names you have long used against me, and you say it is "lashing out," "calling names," and "employing futile school yard debate schemes." These are are your tactics; I'm just having a little fun turning them against you. So you admit you call names, lash out and employ futile school-yard debate schemes.

Yes, just like kids do. You're backed up against the wall. It's all you can do.

We understand it, you're in a cult and your cant answer our questions.

[D1B]

Cult doesn't necessarily involve size.

In the sense that D1B is using it, as a pejorative, it certainly does. "Cult" has numerous definitions associated with it, and you cited merely the first one. If THAT is all that D1B intends when he uses the word "cult," I'm fine with it. But D1B is using it as a pejorative, in the sense that cult is most commonly used today:

a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous

When you are speaking about a belief system to which over 2 billion people worldwide ascribe, the pejorative D1B employs is inapplicable.

Now, it's nice you are familiar with the first dictionary definition of cult, but the Scholastic Aptitude Test tests your familiarity with the second most or third most common use of a word. Knowing the difference between the most commonly-used definition, and the second or third use of the word, is the difference between attending a private college or a directional university.

Joe, I accept your surrender !

[JoltinJoe]

In the sense that D1B is using it, as a pejorative, it certainly does. "Cult" has numerous definitions associated with it, and you cited merely the first one. If THAT is all that D1B intends when he uses the word "cult," I'm fine with it. But D1B is using it as a pejorative, in the sense that cult is most commonly used today:



When you are speaking about a belief system to which over 2 billion people worldwide ascribe, the pejorative D1B employs is inapplicable.

Now, it's nice you are familiar with the first dictionary definition of cult, but the Scholastic Aptitude Test tests your familiarity with the second most or third most use of a word. Knowing the difference between the most commonly-used definition, and the second or third most commonly use of the word, is the difference between attending a private college or a directional university.

Which is why I qualified my remark...but your arrogance saw that fly right over your head as usual. The number of Catholics world wide is about as relevant or impressive as a private school education.

Do you like apples?

Duh, kalm. No wonder you slid in off the wait list at Directional U.

I answered your qualification -- the word does not necessarily include size -- by pointing out that it certainly includes size in the sense that D1B is using the word "cult." You might have noticed that I said if the first definition was all D1B intends, I'd have no problem with the use of the word. But in your arrogance, that slid right over your head as usual. The number of Christians worldwide is certainly relevant, and a bar, to the use of the word "cult" as a pejorative. Even after all these years, you still seem to be having problems distinguishing the first dictionary definition from the second or third. You are a disgrace to Nowhere Palouse U.

[JoltinJoe]

By every definition of the term, the Catholic Church is a cult.

Imagine for a moment that I started a church; and our doctrinal statement contained the following articles:

1. We are the only church that has the truth and there is salvation in no other.

2. You are incapable of interpreting the Bible yourself. Only I and those whom I appoint can correctly interpret the Bible for you. Therefore, you should not read the Bible and you must not question our authority or our interpretations of it.

3. As the head of the church, when I speak on matters of faith and morals I am incapable of deceiving or being deceived. I am immune from error. I am the vicar of Christ on earth.

4. Only I and those I appoint have the authority to forgive sin.

5. My mother was born without sin, she lived a perfectly sinless life, She is the Queen of Heaven and is Co-Redemtrix along with Christ.

6. You must go to my mother to get to Jesus.

7. I can pray over a piece of bread and a glass of wine and as a result, it turns into the actual (literal) body and blood of Jesus Christ!

8. The death of Jesus on the cross was not sufficient to pay for your sin. You must first go the a place of fire for an indeterminate amount of time for further purification. And then you must go to a treasure-chest where all of the good deeds done by all the saints who have gone before you will be the final merit you need before you can enter heaven.

9. Our church tradition has equal or more authority than Scripture.

10. If you do not agree with these tenets and every one of the more than 125 other articles of faith (that read like complex and difficult to understand legal documents) we have the authority and the power to condemn your soul to eternal damnation, and we will!

What church is this? Don't recognize it. You obviously lifted this from another bigoted anti-Catholic, Bircher website. These are the lies they tell about the Catholic Church.

[JoltinJoe]

In the sense that D1B is using it, as a pejorative, it certainly does. "Cult" has numerous definitions associated with it, and you cited merely the first one. If THAT is all that D1B intends when he uses the word "cult," I'm fine with it. But D1B is using it as a pejorative, in the sense that cult is most commonly used today:



When you are speaking about a belief system to which over 2 billion people worldwide ascribe, the pejorative D1B employs is inapplicable.

Now, it's nice you are familiar with the first dictionary definition of cult, but the Scholastic Aptitude Test tests your familiarity with the second most or third most common use of a word. Knowing the difference between the most commonly-used definition, and the second or third use of the word, is the difference between attending a private college or a directional university.

Joe, I accept your surrender !

Oh, butt out. This is my "thing" with kalm. He doesn't butt in when we're doing our "thing."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k80nW6AOhTs[/youtube]

[D1B]

Joe, I accept your surrender !

Oh, butt out. This is my "thing" with kalm. He doesn't butt in when we're doing our "thing."

I cannot allow it.

[kalm]

Which is why I qualified my remark...but your arrogance saw that fly right over your head as usual. The number of Catholics world wide is about as relevant or impressive as a private school education.

Do you like apples?

Duh, kalm. No wonder you slid in off the wait list at Directional U.

I answered your qualification -- the word does not necessarily include size -- by pointing out that it certainly includes size in the sense that D1B is using the word "cult." You might have noticed that I said if the first definition was all D1B intends, I'd have no problem with the use of the word. But in your arrogance, that slid right over your head as usual. The number of Christians worldwide is certainly relevant, and a bar, to the use of the word "cult" as a pejorative. Even after all these years, you still seem to be having problems distinguishing the first dictionary definition from the second or third. You are a disgrace to Nowhere Palouse U.

D1B is aware of the size of the church. It can still be considered a cult by his definition. You simply don't like his definition which happens to be one of the definitions of cult.

Keep on lawyering though...this is fun!

[JoltinJoe]

Duh, kalm. No wonder you slid in off the wait list at Directional U.

I answered your qualification -- the word does not necessarily include size -- by pointing out that it certainly includes size in the sense that D1B is using the word "cult." You might have noticed that I said if the first definition was all D1B intends, I'd have no problem with the use of the word. But in your arrogance, that slid right over your head as usual. The number of Christians worldwide is certainly relevant, and a bar, to the use of the word "cult" as a pejorative. Even after all these years, you still seem to be having problems distinguishing the first dictionary definition from the second or third. You are a disgrace to Nowhere Palouse U.

D1B is aware of the size of the church. It can still be considered a cult by his definition. You simply don't like his definition which happens to be one of the definitions of cult.

Keep on lawyering though...this is fun!

No, D1B can't have "his" definition of a word.

Moreover, when you have over 2 billion adherents worldwide, it lacks credibility to assert that this belief system "has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous." Ironically, only a person mired in a cult themselves would make such a claim.

[D1B]

D1B is aware of the size of the church. It can still be considered a cult by his definition. You simply don't like his definition which happens to be one of the definitions of cult.

Keep on lawyering though...this is fun!

No, D1B can't have "his" definition of a word.

Moreover, when you have over 2 billion adherents worldwide, it lacks credibility to assert that this belief system "has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous." Ironically, only a person mired in a cult themselves would make such a claim.

Kalm and I accept you surrender, again.

[kalm]

D1B is aware of the size of the church. It can still be considered a cult by his definition. You simply don't like his definition which happens to be one of the definitions of cult.

Keep on lawyering though...this is fun!

No, D1B can't have "his" definition of a word.

Moreover, when you have over 2 billion adherents worldwide, it lacks credibility to assert that this belief system "has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous." Ironically, only a person mired in a cult themselves would make such a claim.

1) He used A definition of the word…pejoratively.

2) "Extreme or dangerous" were not in the first definition I posted.

It's fun watching you put that learnedness and awesome private school education to work.

[JoltinJoe]

No, D1B can't have "his" definition of a word.

Moreover, when you have over 2 billion adherents worldwide, it lacks credibility to assert that this belief system "has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous." Ironically, only a person mired in a cult themselves would make such a claim.

1) He used A definition of the word…pejoratively.

2) "Extreme or dangerous" were not in the first definition I posted.

It's fun watching you put that learnedness and awesome private school education to work.

You cited definition one of the word. He used the pejorative sense of the word, historically considered the third most common use of the word. The definition you cited is not a pejorative.

So you have proven my point. D1B has tried to inject a pejorative sense to the first definition of the word, which I cite Montoya's quote in response. The pejorative sense of the word includes that the "cult" be small (definition three). He wants to read a pejorative into other uses of the word, in a way that does not exist.

Seeking a pejorative, he is stuck with definition three of the word. And it simply does not apply. So he is using a word which is defined other than the way he is trying to use it. Thus,



Please send you tuition fee for this lesson to:

JoltinJoe University
PO Box
NY, NY 10958

[kalm]

1) He used A definition of the word…pejoratively.

2) "Extreme or dangerous" were not in the first definition I posted.

It's fun watching you put that learnedness and awesome private school education to work.

You cited definition one of the word. He used the pejorative sense of the word, historically considered the third most common use of the word. The definition you cited is not a pejorative.

So you have proven my point. D1B has tried to inject a pejorative sense to the first definition of the word, which I cite Montoya's quote in response. The pejorative sense of the word includes that the "cult" be small (definition three). He wants to read a pejorative into other uses of the word, in a way that does not exist.

Seeking a pejorative, he is stuck with definition three of the word. And it simply does not apply. So he is using a word which is defined other than the way he is trying to use it. Thus,



Please send you tuition fee for this lesson to:

JoltinJoe University
PO Box
NY, NY 10958

I cited definition 1 and qualified it as one definition. Please show where the pejorative definition can only pertain to small groups.

[D1B]

Joe, thoroughly destroyed in this thread, must change the subject to something he's more comfortable with: word-play red herrings and University-dropping.

[houndawg]

No. Somebody told somebody who told somebody something about he rose from the dead. Not an eyewitness account. And don't even get started on scribes adding their own version (like the last 12 verses of Mark) when they made a copy.

Fact is, if this person existed and rose bodily, (and therefore has mass and is constrained by c), from the grave he is no more than 2,000 light years from here and most likely not even a quarter of that distance. Our instruments are getting sensitive enough that we may be able to find him within the next decade.

First of all, simply because testimonies are recorded by another doesn't change the fact the testimonies given are based on eye-witness accounts.

Second, your Carl Sagan line is ridiculous. It is based on the assumption that all dimensions of reality are perceptible to humans. Nice try.

First of all, these "testimonies" have been recorded and re-recorded ad infinitum and every scribe that ever recorded them added his own bias.

Second, where do you get off calling anybody, let alone Carl Sagan, ridiculous? You're the one peddling some preposterous nonsense about virgins having babies and dead people climbing out of their tomb and flying away up into the sky. And please, JJ, tell us more about these so-called "dimensions of reality" that we can't perceive and how they have anything to do with the dead bodies flying away.

[Chizzang]

Whoa! there mister...
Are you suggesting Apollo doesn't exist? Because there are well documented sightings of Apollo (fact)
Also Christopher Columbus has two documented sightings of Mermaids (fact)

These things can't be disputed ^ they are documented

Lets just stick with the facts people

You lose credibility when you imply that that there is much evidence supporting the existence of Apollo as that of Jesus. Geez, only on the internet ...

So serious Joe...
Eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable
Even Christopher Columbus reported seeing Mermaids (two separate reports) in his captains log

My point is if Christopher Columbus had reported seeing Jesus - YOU - would be referencing it as documented fact. What Christianity is willing to accept in favor and deny in contrast is stunningly embarrassing from the long view

[JoltinJoe]

First of all, simply because testimonies are recorded by another doesn't change the fact the testimonies given are based on eye-witness accounts.

Second, your Carl Sagan line is ridiculous. It is based on the assumption that all dimensions of reality are perceptible to humans. Nice try.

First of all, these "testimonies" have been recorded and re-recorded ad infinitum and every scribe that ever recorded them added his own bias.

Second, where do you get off calling anybody, let alone Carl Sagan, ridiculous? You're the one peddling some preposterous nonsense about virgins having babies and dead people climbing out of their tomb and flying away up into the sky. And please, JJ, tell us more about these so-called "dimensions of reality" that we can't perceive and how they have anything to do with the dead bodies flying away.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you believe in a god and his name is Carl Sagan. Sorry to offend you.

Carl Sagan's line was ridiculous -- a classic example of a scientist, thinking because he had exceptional knowledge of science, that he could speak authoratatively on matters of theology, specifically the divinity of Christ. I say the same thing about Stephen Hawking. Modern scientists think no other discipline matters, and that all are dependent on science -- they have intellectual hubris, when in truth they are narrow, myopic thinkers. It was amusing to see a Jesuit priest -- a philosopher and quantum scientist -- run circles around Hawking's co-author on that Larry King special. Hawking must have moritified as Mlodinow constantly conceded the priest's points.

As for dimensions that we don't perceive, you might want to study up on modern quantum physics/mechanics. A lot has changed since you went to college. For example, when I was in college, it was taken as a given that gravity was not subject to laws of quantum mechanics. But just recently, a theory was proposed regarding the Big Bang which includes a theory that gravity is, in fact, siubject to quantum mechanics. That would put a huge hole in the theory that Hawking/Mlodinow proposed only a few years ago in "The Grand Design."

[JoltinJoe]

You lose credibility when you imply that that there is much evidence supporting the existence of Apollo as that of Jesus. Geez, only on the internet ...

So serious Joe...
Eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable
Even Christopher Columbus reported seeing Mermaids (two separate reports) in his captains log

My point is if Christopher Columbus had reported seeing Jesus - YOU - would be referencing it as documented fact. What Christianity is willing to accept in favor and deny in contrast is stunningly embarrassing from the long view

Explain this:



Science has not been able to debunk it. In fact, science continually affirms that there are remarkable things about this cloth.

[JoltinJoe]

Then explain how this Sudarium, known to have been in Spain since at least the 6th century, claimed to be the sudarium of Christ which covered his face while dead on the cross, and never having been known contact with the cloth in Turin, presents wound markings identical to the cloth in Turin. And why modern pathologists have claimed that this sudarium must have covered the face of the man on the shroud. These aren't cray scientists. These are world-renowned pathologists who have made this claim.

[JoltinJoe]

Second, where do you get off calling anybody, let alone Carl Sagan, ridiculous? You're the one peddling some preposterous nonsense about virgins having babies and dead people climbing out of their tomb and flying away up into the sky. And please, JJ, tell us more about these so-called "dimensions of reality" that we can't perceive and how they have anything to do with the dead bodies flying away.

Let's see, who I should go with?

Jesus, a figure revered in history as a miracle worker, preacher, theologian, philosopher, and who has been called God incarnate for two thousand years, or some simp on an internet message board?

Easy call.

[LeadBolt]

Another definition that would be good to know in the context of this thread would be the first meaning of the word myth:

1. a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

It is the secondary meaning of myth that seems to be the one being used by D1B

2. a widely held but false belief or idea.

Certainly based upon the primary definition of the word myth, the Bible does contain myths. Based upon the secondary definition, it is open to debate. Either way the existence of Jesus in history is well documented outside of the Bible, even the Qu'ran refers to him as a prophet and His existence shouldn't really be a question, although debate on who He was and what He did is.