For KY Jelly: If Any Other President...

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Baldy
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Re: For KY Jelly: If Any Other President...

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote: I believe it was you who started in with the economic facts. So I'm merely playing the game with ya. That's the fun with economics - you can share all of the facts you want, highlighting some strange coincidences like the part time tennis instructor has done. And thanks to the complicated nature of markets, it's still easy to spin those facts to fit your ideology, which you sometimes do quite well.
Pointing out facts is rather easy, but cherry picking data to support your ideology has become your calling card. It's just too bad that you've had to stoop to the level of needing the assistance of a part time ski instructor and writer of fiction to 'prove' your point.
But what we do know, regardless of other influences, is that every major tax cut from the last century was followed by a bubble and a crash.
Nice cherry picking again. What we do know that every major tax decrease in the past century was followed by a long period of growth and prosperity, and every bubble and crash was due to a massive failure of government. Whether it was the restrictive monetary policy and the abject failure of the Federal Reserve System to prevent bank failures causing the "Great Depression", or abject failure of Congress to listen to it's own regulators allowing Fannie and Freddie to cook their books and blow up the derivatives market in 2008.
And every significant tax increase was followed by solid growth. We can only speculate about how things would have turned if the taxes were kept low during the depression. But it's pretty easy to speculate that if they had, we would have been in far more debt paying for the war, the Marshall Plan, and the GI Bill.
Compared to today's confiscatory tax rates, taxes were low in the 1920's through the start of WWII. Just as an example, in 1935 $2,000 in household income would have comfortably put you in the top 10% of income earners, but your tax bill would only be 4%. In comparison, someone making in the top 10% today will pay about 25% to 28% of their income in taxes. The top level kicks in at about $315,000 today, while the top level didn't kick in until that person made over $1,000,000 a year in 1935. Wow, the definition of 'rich' sure has changed over the years. :roll:
By all means, let's go back the proportionality of income taxes back in 1935. :thumb:
Would we have even been able to afford all of those CCC projects and later, the highways that benefited the private sector so much? Would the auto and oil industries have built their own roads? Would the universities have provided free eductation to the GI's out of their own pocket or perhaps the businesses that benefited from highly eductated workforce? Maybe all of the farmers could have passed the hat around and built their own Hoover and Grand Coulee dams?
Are you specifically talking about state or federal roads and highways, and state or federal dams? :roll:
The GI Bill was a bipartisan bill written by a (gasp) Republican and the least we could have done for our troops coming home from war. Too bad only 51% of the returning vets participated.
I know you think you've got it all figured out and this does not fit your black and white view. So I'm sorry about that.
Maybe in "Progressiveland", facts have gray area, but in the real world they are black and white. :nod:
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Re: For KY Jelly: If Any Other President...

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote: I believe it was you who started in with the economic facts. So I'm merely playing the game with ya. That's the fun with economics - you can share all of the facts you want, highlighting some strange coincidences like the part time tennis instructor has done. And thanks to the complicated nature of markets, it's still easy to spin those facts to fit your ideology, which you sometimes do quite well.
Pointing out facts is rather easy, but cherry picking data to support your ideology has become your calling card. It's just too bad that you've had to stoop to the level of needing the assistance of a part time ski instructor and writer of fiction to 'prove' your point.
But what we do know, regardless of other influences, is that every major tax cut from the last century was followed by a bubble and a crash.
Nice cherry picking again. What we do know that every major tax decrease in the past century was followed by a long period of growth and prosperity, and every bubble and crash was due to a massive failure of government. Whether it was the restrictive monetary policy and the abject failure of the Federal Reserve System to prevent bank failures causing the "Great Depression", or abject failure of Congress to listen to it's own regulators allowing Fannie and Freddie to cook their books and blow up the derivatives market in 2008.
And every significant tax increase was followed by solid growth. We can only speculate about how things would have turned if the taxes were kept low during the depression. But it's pretty easy to speculate that if they had, we would have been in far more debt paying for the war, the Marshall Plan, and the GI Bill.
Compared to today's confiscatory tax rates, taxes were low in the 1920's through the start of WWII. Just as an example, in 1935 $2,000 in household income would have comfortably put you in the top 10% of income earners, but your tax bill would only be 4%. In comparison, someone making in the top 10% today will pay about 25% to 28% of their income in taxes. The top level kicks in at about $315,000 today, while the top level didn't kick in until that person made over $1,000,000 a year in 1935. Wow, the definition of 'rich' sure has changed over the years. :roll:
By all means, let's go back the proportionality of income taxes back in 1935. :thumb:
Would we have even been able to afford all of those CCC projects and later, the highways that benefited the private sector so much? Would the auto and oil industries have built their own roads? Would the universities have provided free eductation to the GI's out of their own pocket or perhaps the businesses that benefited from highly eductated workforce? Maybe all of the farmers could have passed the hat around and built their own Hoover and Grand Coulee dams?
Are you specifically talking about state or federal roads and highways, and state or federal dams? :roll:
The GI Bill was a bipartisan bill written by a (gasp) Republican and the least we could have done for our troops coming home from war. Too bad only 51% of the returning vets participated.
I know you think you've got it all figured out and this does not fit your black and white view. So I'm sorry about that.
Maybe in "Progressiveland", facts have gray area, but in the real world they are black and white. :nod:
Yeah, I'm shedding a real tear for the confiscatory tax rates that our rich pay these days. Man they've got it rough. :coffee:

Funny how I'm cherry picking, but growth under Reagan had to do with tax cuts. :lol:

When cgrad posts one of the Keynes vs. Hayek clips, I tend to find Hayek winning the debate. So I guess the difference between you and I is that one of us questions even our own bullshit. :kisswink:
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Baldy
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Re: For KY Jelly: If Any Other President...

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote: Yeah, I'm shedding a real tear for the confiscatory tax rates that our rich pay these days. Man they've got it rough. :coffee:

Funny how I'm cherry picking, but growth under Reagan had to do with tax cuts. :lol:

When cgrad posts one of the Keynes vs. Hayek clips, I tend to find Hayek winning the debate. So I guess the difference between you and I is that one of us questions even our own bullshit. :kisswink:
No need to question it. Do yourself a favor and find the last article written by Keynes which was published after his death in 1946. He clearly stated he was disappointed in his students and followers who took his philosophy too far. He truly thought that his economic policies were the best possible ones for a depression era 1930's economy, but believed it wasn't appropriate for a 1940's post war economy. :kisswink:
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Re: For KY Jelly: If Any Other President...

Post by free7694 »

Fun fact I thought I'd throw in here: You could tax every person in the country making $100,000 or more at a rate at 100%, and you'd bring in just shy of $1.6 trillion. This year's deficit is just short of $1.7 trillion and the national debt is over $14 trillion.

We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.
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Re: For KY Jelly: If Any Other President...

Post by houndawg »

free7694 wrote:Fun fact I thought I'd throw in here: You could tax every person in the country making $100,000 or more at a rate at 100%, and you'd bring in just shy of $1.6 trillion. This year's deficit is just short of $1.7 trillion and the national debt is over $14 trillion.

We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

A defense spending problem. :coffee:
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Re: For KY Jelly: If Any Other President...

Post by Baldy »

houndawg wrote:
free7694 wrote:Fun fact I thought I'd throw in here: You could tax every person in the country making $100,000 or more at a rate at 100%, and you'd bring in just shy of $1.6 trillion. This year's deficit is just short of $1.7 trillion and the national debt is over $14 trillion.

We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

A defense spending problem. :coffee:
:lol:

No doubt that the DoD's budget needs to be scrutinized under a magnifying glass and curtailed as much as possible, but even you have to realize by now that the true budget killer are all the entitlement programs.
Last edited by Baldy on Wed May 18, 2011 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: For KY Jelly: If Any Other President...

Post by AZGrizFan »

Baldy wrote:
houndawg wrote:

A defense spending problem. :coffee:
:lol:

No doubt that the DoD's budget needs to be scrutinized under a magnifying glass and curtailed as much as possible, but even you has to realize by now that the true budget killer are all the entitlement programs.
He's a UNION man, Baldy. He never met an entitlement program he didn't like. :ohno:
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Re: For KY Jelly: If Any Other President...

Post by houndawg »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Baldy wrote: :lol:

No doubt that the DoD's budget needs to be scrutinized under a magnifying glass and curtailed as much as possible, but even you has to realize by now that the true budget killer are all the entitlement programs.
He's a UNION man, Baldy. He never met an entitlement program he didn't like. :ohno:

Hey, it's my money. :coffee:
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Re: For KY Jelly: If Any Other President...

Post by AZGrizFan »

houndawg wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
He's a UNION man, Baldy. He never met an entitlement program he didn't like. :ohno:

Hey, it's my money. :coffee:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: For KY Jelly: If Any Other President...

Post by JohnStOnge »

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:He.
Got.
Bin Laden.
.
He did not get Bin Laden. The United States military and intelligence apparatus that existed prior to his assuming office and that will exist after he is no longer President got Bin Laden. It got him while he was President. But it probably would have gotten him regardless unless a President would at some point have directed it not to.
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Re: For KY Jelly: If Any Other President...

Post by houndawg »

Better late than never.
You matter. Unless you multiply yourself by c squared. Then you energy.


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