The Ukraine Crisis

[SeattleGriz]

Tough to argue and you are the expert.

I’m viewing this as a conversion to cleaner energy not the pie in the sky instant replacement. Everything is a trade off but we have the ability right now to improve both technologically and culturally. (Heck the cultural change has already been happening for awhile but it can still go faster). Impediments are money associated with political will and systemic corruption.

Then allow incentives and tax breaks for R&D (more than there already are) and try to push the good side of technology (innovation) rather than punish the behavior (oil consumption). Right now it is a push against fuel but what about the other petroleum products? We need other replacements (74% used for fuel, rest is other uses in a barrel of oil) for those products.

My thoughts are use more of a carrot than stick approach and let markets/consumers work on it. I am all for the cleaner engine emissions and letting the cost of that drive consumers towards electric vehicles (because it will). Offer me a viable alternative to my current vehicle and I will consider it. I will not even consider an EV right now because of their winter performance (lack thereof).

I've been thinking this way for years. Instead of trying to tear companies down as pieces of shits, build them up and help offset the costs of innovation.

[89Hen]

Tell me you don't understand oil prices without telling me you don't understand oil prices.

I’m willing to change my opinion. Tell me how avg production suddenly made prices skyrocket. Its more than domestic production - that’s my point. Are you saying inflation and other global factors play ZERO role?

Oil is a commodity. It moves up and down based on predicted future prices. Slowing production raises the price. Production under Trump went up so the price went down. Production under Biden is expected to drop, so the price is up.

[AZGrizFan]

Then allow incentives and tax breaks for R&D (more than there already are) and try to push the good side of technology (innovation) rather than punish the behavior (oil consumption). Right now it is a push against fuel but what about the other petroleum products? We need other replacements (74% used for fuel, rest is other uses in a barrel of oil) for those products.

My thoughts are use more of a carrot than stick approach and let markets/consumers work on it. I am all for the cleaner engine emissions and letting the cost of that drive consumers towards electric vehicles (because it will). Offer me a viable alternative to my current vehicle and I will consider it. I will not even consider an EV right now because of their winter performance (lack thereof).

I've been thinking this way for years. Instead of trying to tear companies down as pieces of shits, build them up and help offset the costs of innovation.

That’s not the way of the instant gratification crowd.

[kalm]

This war is going embarrassingly bad for Putin. On paper, Russia should have blown through Ukraine and its defenses with ease. The shock and awe of their blitzkrieg was supposed to have brought on a quick victory. But 3 weeks later there are 1000s of dead Russians, including many generals, they've had logistical problems from the beginning, troop morale is in the pits, the Russian people are voicing their opposition, sanctions have destroyed the Russian economy, a vast majority of the industrialized worlds has joined the side of the Ukraine and they're ever increasing the likelihood of a bitter and embarrassing acquiesce to Ukraine.

I truly believe Putin is feeling more and more backed into a corner. I don't see the man having the courage to cease hostilities and retreat so that leaves 2 options:
1) Start another World War and unleash the nukes
or;
2) Suicide


I may be a bit dramatic but I was called dramatic for saying the Russians would eventually invade Ukraine.

May have been you who mentioned something like 3 generals, 7 colonels killed. We lost around 20 line officers in all of WWII.

Watched a 60 minutes piece last night about one oligarch offering a $1 million bounty on Putin. (Seems like low balling IDK).

The sanctions themselves are effective. But there’s also word that India is considering an oil deal exchanging rupees for roubles.

Fuck Modi.

[Ibanez]

I’m willing to change my opinion. Tell me how avg production suddenly made prices skyrocket. Its more than domestic production - that’s my point. Are you saying inflation and other global factors play ZERO role?

Oil is a commodity. It moves up and down based on predicted future prices. Slowing production raises the price. Production under Trump went up so the price went down. Production under Biden is expected to drop, so the price is up.

I understand how oil prices fluctuate with anticipated supply and demand, among other factors.

And, production under Biden has gone up and is still expecting to increase. The US industry is producing more now than it did, on average, during Trump's administration. Supply is but one factor into gas prices.

[AZGrizFan]

Oil is a commodity. It moves up and down based on predicted future prices. Slowing production raises the price. Production under Trump went up so the price went down. Production under Biden is expected to drop, so the price is up.

I understand how oil prices fluctuate with anticipated supply and demand, among other factors.

And, production under Biden has gone up and is still expecting to increase. The US industry is producing more now than it did, on average, during Trump's administration. Supply is but one factor into gas prices.

Again with the qualifier. Why don’t you average Biden’s production too? You’re comparing marginal production to average production, like a good lib.

[89Hen]

Oil is a commodity. It moves up and down based on predicted future prices. Slowing production raises the price. Production under Trump went up so the price went down. Production under Biden is expected to drop, so the price is up.

I understand how oil prices fluctuate with anticipated supply and demand, among other factors.

And, production under Biden has gone up and is still expecting to increase. The US industry is producing more now than it did, on average, during Trump's administration. Supply is but one factor into gas prices.

Your figures:

2020 - 11,289.08
2021 - 11,174.50

[Winterborn]

I understand how oil prices fluctuate with anticipated supply and demand, among other factors.

And, production under Biden has gone up and is still expecting to increase. The US industry is producing more now than it did, on average, during Trump's administration. Supply is but one factor into gas prices.

Your figures:

2020 - 11,289.08
2021 - 11,174.50

So much flubbing of the numbers on a day dedicated to math.

[Ibanez]

I understand how oil prices fluctuate with anticipated supply and demand, among other factors.

And, production under Biden has gone up and is still expecting to increase. The US industry is producing more now than it did, on average, during Trump's administration. Supply is but one factor into gas prices.

Your figures:

2020 - 11,289.08
2021 - 11,174.50

Operative word there is "average". On average, 10966.95 millions of barrels a day were produced from 2017-2020 compare that with an average of 11,174.50 in 2021.

Btw, forecasts are showing that production will increase by 12 million barrels a day in 2022.

You aren't looking at the whole problem wrt soaring gas prices.

[Ibanez]

I understand how oil prices fluctuate with anticipated supply and demand, among other factors.

And, production under Biden has gone up and is still expecting to increase. The US industry is producing more now than it did, on average, during Trump's administration. Supply is but one factor into gas prices.

Again with the qualifier. Why don’t you average Biden’s production too? You’re comparing marginal production to average production, like a good lib.

I have, you just aren't paying attention or reading. You are trying to take a random point in time in 4 years and use it as a benchmark. I'm at least taking all the data.

We can stick with their first year - where US production in 2017 was less than it was in 2021.

Just ignore inconvenient data and facts like a good conk.

[89Hen]

Your figures:

2020 - 11,289.08
2021 - 11,174.50

Operative word there is "average". On average, 10966.95 millions of barrels a day were produced from 2017-2020 compare that with an average of 11,174.50 in 2021.

Btw, forecasts are showing that production will increase by 12 million barrels a day in 2022.

You aren't looking at the whole problem wrt soaring gas prices.

I can't tell if you're just being obtuse. Prices went down 2017-2020 because production was going up. Prices go up when they think production will go down. Using an average is pointless.

[Ibanez]

Operative word there is "average". On average, 10966.95 millions of barrels a day were produced from 2017-2020 compare that with an average of 11,174.50 in 2021.

Btw, forecasts are showing that production will increase by 12 million barrels a day in 2022.

You aren't looking at the whole problem wrt soaring gas prices.

I can't tell if you're just being obtuse. Prices went down 2017-2020 because production was going up. Prices go up when they think production will go down. Using an average is pointless.

If production, as you seem to imply, is the only factor, prices today would be lower than that were in 2017 and 2018. They aren't - why is that if supply is the only factor?

What's has happened to the demand for oil? The buying power of the dollar? There is so much more than just supply that factors in.

[Skjellyfetti]

[89Hen]

I can't tell if you're just being obtuse. Prices went down 2017-2020 because production was going up. Prices go up when they think production will go down. Using an average is pointless.

If production, as you seem to imply, is the only factor, prices today would be lower than that were in 2017 and 2018. They aren't - why is that if supply is the only factor?

What's has happened to the demand for oil? The buying power of the dollar? There is so much more than just supply that factors in.

As I said.... Oil is a commodity. It moves up and down based on predicted future prices. Slowing production raises the price.

Even if the US increased slightly, production is not keeping up with an ever increasing demand. It's like getting a 3% raise when inflation is 7.9%.

[AZGrizFan]

Again with the qualifier. Why don’t you average Biden’s production too? You’re comparing marginal production to average production, like a good lib.

I have, you just aren't paying attention or reading. You are trying to take a random point in time in 4 years and use it as a benchmark. I'm at least taking all the data.

We can stick with their first year - where US production in 2017 was less than it was in 2021.

Just ignore inconvenient data and facts like a good conk.

I’m not taking a random point in time. Look at the TREND during Trump’s presidency. You want to average in the first 18 months when production was ramping up coming out of an unfriendly donk administration that hamstrung the industry for 8 years.

Point being: we have never hit those numbers again, and we’re 1,000,000 per month short as we speak.

[BDKJMU]

Well I know they provide lots of products, and lots of cheap products, but is there anything THEY provide we can’t get somewhere else? Or here at home, albeit at a more expensive price?

A lot of computer chips.

As I understand it for the top computer chips, that’s Taiwan, not China.

[BDKJMU]

Meh. We've turned our heads on all kinds of killings when we are the ones doing it, not really buying all the hype about the killing in Ukraine.

Again, all the angst from the political elite is that their money laundering schemes in Ukraine are going to dry up when Putin finally wrestles control from Ukraine away from the West. Pretty sure I read that one of Romney's kids has one of those sweetheart deals like Hunter does over there.

At this point all I care about is US troops not being sent in. For those that have read up on the End Times, you know how this war is going to end.

Trut so pure, BUT, there is a difference, to the surviviors any way, between collateral damage and deliberatly targeting civilian dwelling with air and artillery. That shit is right up there with what Roosevelt, Truman & Churchill did during WWII with allied bombing.

FIFY..

[BDKJMU]

Romney isn’t wrong

We really should be trying to think about how to whip their Russian asses back to Moscow. His position is righteous

But the position that we should not precipitate WWIII is also righteous. Romney is no more a shitbag than Reagan was when he challenged the Soviet Union on all fronts- the unified Dem talking point during those days was “don’t piss off the Russians it might cause war! “

Yet again Dems and Republicans have flipflopped


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Meh. We've turned our heads on all kinds of killings when we are the ones doing it, not really buying all the hype about the killing in Ukraine.

Again, all the angst from the political elite is that their money laundering schemes in Ukraine are going to dry up when Putin finally wrestles control from Ukraine away from the West. Pretty sure I read that one of Romney's kids has one of those sweetheart deals like Hunter does over there.

At this point all I care about is US troops not being sent in. For those that have read up on the End Times, you know how this war is going to end.

Yeah, most major German and Jap cities we leveled in WWII.

[BDKJMU]

Meh. We've turned our heads on all kinds of killings when we are the ones doing it, not really buying all the hype about the killing in Ukraine.

Again, all the angst from the political elite is that their money laundering schemes in Ukraine are going to dry up when Putin finally wrestles control from Ukraine away from the West. Pretty sure I read that one of Romney's kids has one of those sweetheart deals like Hunter does over there.

At this point all I care about is US troops not being sent in. For those that have read up on the End Times, you know how this war is going to end.

Trut so pure, BUT, there is a difference, to the surviviors any way, between collateral damage and deliberatly targeting civilian dwelling with air and artillery. That shit is right up there with trump pardonning that scumbag navy dude that knifed bound 15 year old captives

Suffering from TDS delirium again I see.

[BDKJMU]

It all has to be gradual.


And more nuclear power. Democrats have been wrong on this issue for too long.

In general. I agree with you on the topic, the wildcard being the severity and urgency of climate change.

Energy technology seems similar to residential development. Months turn into years, years turn into decades with external forces like environmental regulations/approval and competition (other land development, housing market, and growth management in the way for new developments and traditional energy, consumer familiarity and existing M&O in the case of new energy).

You mean global warming?
Severity and urgency my ass...

[BDKJMU]

It all has to be gradual.


And more nuclear power. Democrats have been wrong on this issue for too long.

Smaller decentralized reactors are what we should be bridging the gap with while we develop a worldwide grid upon which the sun always shines. I've got some land for a demonstration project...

Well, yeah, we’ve got I believe 99% if not 100% agreement on this board about nuclear. Too bad your fellow leftards won’t agree.

[BDKJMU]

Creative propaganda about Paris being under attack.

Where are the white flags in the video? Paris would have fallen and France surrendered before NATO could even react.

[BDKJMU]

With the talk of tactical nukes. Here is NukeMap. Pick your spot and yield. Wouldn't doubt the NSA created this site!

https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

https://www.championshipsubdivision.com ... 2#p1398652

[BDKJMU]

Your figures:

2020 - 11,289.08
2021 - 11,174.50

Operative word there is "average". On average, 10966.95 millions of barrels a day were produced from 2017-2020 compare that with an average of 11,174.50 in 2021.

Btw, forecasts are showing that production will increase by 12 million barrels a day in 2022.

You aren't looking at the whole problem wrt soaring gas prices.

That would mean production would go up to over 23 million barrells per day..You mean will increase to 12 million barrels per day?

Wake me up when it gets to upper 12s/13 ballpark, what we had in the later half of 2019/early 2020 before the China Virus hit full bore..

[BDKJMU]

Talking production #s is too complicated for most of the elecorate & make their eyes glaze over. Here’s the bottom line of what the ‘average voter’ or a majority of the electorate remembers and sees, the simple stuff:
1.Gas under Trump was around $2+

2. Fall 2020: Biden’s get rid of/eliminate oil statements during the campaign when gas was $2+. They’re all over the interwebs with millions of hits, and they were played ad nauseum on TV and in campaign commercials.

3. Jan 2021 Biden’s well publicized anti oil/natural production EOs in his 1st days in office.

4. Gas under Biden rose from the election to $3.50+ before the Russian invasion, and $4.30+ now (and according to THE HILL poll, 62% of voters say no invasion if Trump in office, so those folks are going to blame Biden for the Russian invasion increase. And they’re hearing that a major reason for the inflation increase (that will likely get worse) is because of the increased gas prices.

Even if the majority of the electorate were to forget or ignore #2 and #3, they won’t #1 and #4. Bottom line inflation and bigh gas prices at the pump, no matter the reason, are an albatross to the party in power, because they’re in the face of voters every day. Biden’s 2020 campaign statements juxtaposed with him signing the anti oil EOs and sky high gas prices, will make for great conk campaign commercials, even this fall. Guess which party gets hammered because of it this fall, and in 2024 if prices are still high?