Coronavirus COVID-19

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:33 am
89Hen wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:26 am

I would think not having a vaccine for it until 9 months into the spread kinda has something to do with that. 130,000,000 - 150,000,000 people usually get flu shots. If that many folks were pre-emptively vaccinated for Covid, what do you think the numbers would have looked like?
Less deadly and less contagious than Covid.
Covid would be less deadly and less contagious than itself?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

GannonFan wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:17 am
kalm wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 4:25 am

I get that but considering peak manufacturing of planes and tanks in 1944, it’s still surprising given the entire world is motivated against a common enemy now.
So it took us about 5 years to get up to peak manufacturing for those planes and tanks, and we're just a few months into this ramping up. I say give it time.

Amazing, once again the whole "follow the science thing" only works when it meets the person's personal political agenda. We all loved Angela Merkel when she went against Trump and talked about how to properly contain COVID. Now when she goes against Biden and points out the peril of just freely throwing away intellectual property we don't like science anymore. Politics are funny that way.
We’re actually further down that road than just one year. But I know...politics and such. Yawn.
“We created a center here in Texas to develop vaccines that the big pharma companies are not in a position to make because there's not a financial model for the shareholders,” Dr. Hotez said during a recent episode of the “AMA COVID-19 Update” about his 10 years of work with coronaviruses. He is the dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine, and professor of pediatrics and molecular virology and microbiology at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston.

“About 10 years ago, we got connected to a virology group at the New York Blood Center led by Shibo Jiang, MD, PhD, and Lanying Du, PhD, who had a pretty good idea for coronavirus vaccines,” said Dr. Hotez who is also co-director of the Center for Vaccine Development with Maria Elena Bottazzi, PhD at the Texas Children’s Hospital. “At the time, interest in coronavirus vaccines was not high. They were sort of orphaned, so we adopted it just like we adopted Chagas disease vaccines and leishmaniasis vaccines.”
https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-car ... 9-vaccines
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 10:28 am
kalm wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:33 am

Less deadly and less contagious than Covid.
Covid would be less deadly and less contagious than itself?
Yes
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 10:47 am
89Hen wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 10:28 am

Covid would be less deadly and less contagious than itself?
Yes
Thanks for your keen insight.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 12:21 pm
kalm wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 10:47 am

Yes
Thanks for your keen insight.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 10:47 am
GannonFan wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:17 am
So it took us about 5 years to get up to peak manufacturing for those planes and tanks, and we're just a few months into this ramping up. I say give it time.

Amazing, once again the whole "follow the science thing" only works when it meets the person's personal political agenda. We all loved Angela Merkel when she went against Trump and talked about how to properly contain COVID. Now when she goes against Biden and points out the peril of just freely throwing away intellectual property we don't like science anymore. Politics are funny that way.
We’re actually further down that road than just one year. But I know...politics and such. Yawn.
“We created a center here in Texas to develop vaccines that the big pharma companies are not in a position to make because there's not a financial model for the shareholders,” Dr. Hotez said during a recent episode of the “AMA COVID-19 Update” about his 10 years of work with coronaviruses. He is the dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine, and professor of pediatrics and molecular virology and microbiology at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston.

“About 10 years ago, we got connected to a virology group at the New York Blood Center led by Shibo Jiang, MD, PhD, and Lanying Du, PhD, who had a pretty good idea for coronavirus vaccines,” said Dr. Hotez who is also co-director of the Center for Vaccine Development with Maria Elena Bottazzi, PhD at the Texas Children’s Hospital. “At the time, interest in coronavirus vaccines was not high. They were sort of orphaned, so we adopted it just like we adopted Chagas disease vaccines and leishmaniasis vaccines.”
https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-car ... 9-vaccines
Is this a "they didn't build that" attempt to minimize credit for the vaccine makers?

And what does it have to do with Merkel being right when she criticizes Trump but wrong when she defends intellectual property rights?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 4:21 pm
kalm wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 10:47 am

We’re actually further down that road than just one year. But I know...politics and such. Yawn.



https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-car ... 9-vaccines
Is this a "they didn't build that" attempt to minimize credit for the vaccine makers?

And what does it have to do with Merkel being right when she criticizes Trump but wrong when she defends intellectual property rights?
The makers deserve credit, but also scrutiny just like government does.

:coffee:
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:04 pm
UNI88 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 4:21 pm
Is this a "they didn't build that" attempt to minimize credit for the vaccine makers?

And what does it have to do with Merkel being right when she criticizes Trump but wrong when she defends intellectual property rights?
The makers deserve credit, but also scrutiny just like government does.

:coffee:
I won't hold my breath waiting for Warren, AOChe or the other ctrl-lefters to give for-profit enterprises real credit just like I won't hold my breath waiting for MAGAts and other alt-righters to give the government credit for anything. :coffee:
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

kalm wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:33 am
89Hen wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:26 am

I would think not having a vaccine for it until 9 months into the spread kinda has something to do with that. 130,000,000 - 150,000,000 people usually get flu shots. If that many folks were pre-emptively vaccinated for Covid, what do you think the numbers would have looked like?
Less deadly and less contagious than Covid.
Covid
2020-21 - 33,000,000 cases, 587,000 deaths

Flu
2010-20 - 296,000,000 cases, 350,000 deaths from the flu
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by GannonFan »

Gil Dobie wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:16 am
kalm wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:33 am

Less deadly and less contagious than Covid.
Covid
2020-21 - 33,000,000 cases, 587,000 deaths

Flu
2010-20 - 296,000,000 cases, 350,000 deaths from the flu
??? How many deaths since vaccinations have come into effect?
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

From the China thread but part of it applies here ...
UNI88 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:28 am Internal Memo to Beijing: China’s Competitive Advantage against America
First, Americans can no longer do basic public policy.
...
The U.S. coronavirus response over two different administrations exposed that this system is broken. The U.S. overwhelmingly prioritized only one goal — coronavirus health issues — and let it overwhelm almost all other social- and economic-policy goals. Even with that singular focus, they failed to do the central task of their own chosen strategy — to protect the elderly and vulnerable. Over 80 percent of their COVID deaths were among the elderly. And yet, for a period of time, they shut down almost all economic and social activity by the least vulnerable populations, without any cost-benefit analysis of this approach. This contributed to all of the points below that have accelerated our strategic advantage.

Despite the Americans’ professed policy focus on public health, we see good estimates that the singular health-system focus on the coronavirus at the expense of so many other health practices will likely kill far more people in the next few years than the virus itself did. Especially when you add in the issues associated with the economic privation, stress, and isolation they voluntarily underwent. Our internal data support the U.K. Department of Health report noting that, “when morbidity is taken into account, the estimates for the health impacts from a lockdown and lockdown-induced recession are greater in terms of quality adjusted life years than the direct COVID-19 deaths.”

Second, because of this policy choice, America is purposely eroding the very sources of its own economic competitiveness.
...
Third, their coronavirus responses have also weakened another one of their great competitive advantages: the vaunted U.S. education system.
...
Fourth, I am happy to report that the American political experiment is declining in legitimacy — there and everywhere else.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

GannonFan wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:23 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:16 am

Covid
2020-21 - 33,000,000 cases, 587,000 deaths

Flu
2010-20 - 296,000,000 cases, 350,000 deaths from the flu
??? How many deaths since vaccinations have come into effect?
This just illustrates Covid was more deadly per case, and that won't change with vaccines. There will be less cases and therefore less death with the vaccines. During May the 7 day moving average has dropped from 726 per day to 648 per day.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by 89Hen »

Gil Dobie wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:32 am
GannonFan wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:23 am

??? How many deaths since vaccinations have come into effect?
This just illustrates Covid was more deadly per case, and that won't change with vaccines. There will be less cases and therefore less death with the vaccines. During May the 7 day moving average has dropped from 726 per day to 648 per day.
Maybe I'm way off but I thought the benefit of the vaccine was two fold. First, to keep you from getting it but second, to lesser the severity of it if you did get it.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

89Hen wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:52 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:32 am

This just illustrates Covid was more deadly per case, and that won't change with vaccines. There will be less cases and therefore less death with the vaccines. During May the 7 day moving average has dropped from 726 per day to 648 per day.
Maybe I'm way off but I thought the benefit of the vaccine was two fold. First, to keep you from getting it but second, to lesser the severity of it if you did get it.
True, but the vaccine doesn't help the people that don't get vaccinated.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

Gil Dobie wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:32 am
GannonFan wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:23 am
??? How many deaths since vaccinations have come into effect?
This just illustrates Covid was more deadly per case, and that won't change with vaccines. There will be less cases and therefore less death with the vaccines. During May the 7 day moving average has dropped from 726 per day to 648 per day.
Covid was more contagious and more deadly than the flu.

Hoaxers seem to believe that the flu happened as normal and that flu deaths were just counted as Covid deaths, inflating the number. It's seems like common sense to me that flu cases and deaths were lower because of masks, social distancing, no school, etc. but who wants to let common sense get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

Gil Dobie wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:57 am
89Hen wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:52 am
Maybe I'm way off but I thought the benefit of the vaccine was two fold. First, to keep you from getting it but second, to lesser the severity of it if you did get it.
True, but the vaccine doesn't help the people that don't get vaccinated.
Some people are going to refuse to get vaccinated so at some point we need to move forward and let them be responsible for their choices.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by 89Hen »

UNI88 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:21 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:32 am

This just illustrates Covid was more deadly per case, and that won't change with vaccines. There will be less cases and therefore less death with the vaccines. During May the 7 day moving average has dropped from 726 per day to 648 per day.
Covid was more contagious and more deadly than the flu.

Hoaxers seem to believe that the flu happened as normal and that flu deaths were just counted as Covid deaths, inflating the number. It's seems like common sense to me that flu cases and deaths were lower because of masks, social distancing, no school, etc. but who wants to let common sense get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
FWIW, I think both contributed to the low flu death numbers.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by 89Hen »

Gil Dobie wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:57 am
89Hen wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:52 am

Maybe I'm way off but I thought the benefit of the vaccine was two fold. First, to keep you from getting it but second, to lesser the severity of it if you did get it.
True, but the vaccine doesn't help the people that don't get vaccinated.
I was speaking to the death per case percentage. That should drop too with the vaccine. Just like the flu numbers are lower because of the flu shot.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

89Hen wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:36 am
Gil Dobie wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:57 am

True, but the vaccine doesn't help the people that don't get vaccinated.
I was speaking to the death per case percentage. That should drop too with the vaccine. Just like the flu numbers are lower because of the flu shot.
It should drop a small percentage. Of the 75 million fully vaccinated people, there have been 5800 cases or .0075%, and 24 have died. The more that are vaccinated also help reduce the spread.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by 89Hen »

So while Covid may be more contagious or deadly than the flu, the vaccine sounds like it's far more effective than the flu shot.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:28 am From the China thread but part of it applies here ...
Decent satire and a few uncomfortable truths.

I know when I want info on the effects Covid has had on the US economy, I often to turn to the UK Department of Health. :lol:
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:17 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 10:28 am From the China thread but part of it applies here ...
Decent satire and a few uncomfortable truths.

I know when I want info on the effects Covid has had on the US economy, I often to turn to the UK Department of Health. :lol:
Maybe the UK Department of Health was reporting on the impact on the UK economy? Is it possible that the impact on the US economy could be similar? The US and UK economies are a lot more similar than the US and Iceland but that doesn't stop people from making that comparison.

The UK Department of Health is more credible than the WHO.

Uncomfortable truths/possibilities:
  • Truth: They shut down almost all economic and social activity by the least vulnerable populations, without any cost-benefit analysis of this approach. (I & others have been posting about this for more than a year)
  • Possibility: The singular health-system focus on the coronavirus at the expense of so many other health practices will likely kill far more people in the next few years than the virus itself did. (once again, I & others have been posting about this possibility for more than a year)
  • Truth: Their coronavirus responses have also weakened another one of their great competitive advantages: the vaunted U.S. education system. (I estimate that over that last year, students have learned approximately 1/2 of what they normally would have)
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Skjellyfetti »

UNI88 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:47 pmthe vaunted U.S. education system.
I really hope this was sarcastic
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

Skjellyfetti wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 2:09 pm
UNI88 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:47 pmthe vaunted U.S. education system.
I really hope this was sarcastic
Thank you BDkjelly.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

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UNI88 wrote: The UK Department of Health is more credible than the WHO
So is InfoWars


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