Coronavirus COVID-19

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UNI88
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

kalm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:48 pm
AshevilleApp wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:37 pm

Question for the lawyers here is does he have the authority to do so?

God, (or Allah, Yaweh, Baal, Zeus or whatever(s)) help me though, I think he may be on the right track about the issue from a governing standpoint. Restraining religion in any way in this country seems to be skating on pretty thin legal ice. Better to just leave it alone. I also think it's piss poor judgement of the churches to meet when their is a possibility of harming congregants. The Almighty(ies) will hear you even if your neighbor doesn't.
Does he have the authority to override a governors emergency orders?

“Restraining religion in anyway” is a pretty high bar. Should we allow Sharia Law if certain local governments approve of it?
There is a significant difference between a congregation wanting to gather vs. a community wanting to follow Sharia Law rather than the Constitution. I believe it could be argued that the Establishment Clause of the Constitution would nullify adoption of Sharia Law and prohibit government from preventing a congregation from meeting to exercise their religion.

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:36 pm
kalm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:48 pm


Does he have the authority to override a governors emergency orders?

“Restraining religion in anyway” is a pretty high bar. Should we allow Sharia Law if certain local governments approve of it?
There is a significant difference between a congregation wanting to gather vs. a community wanting to follow Sharia Law rather than the Constitution. I believe it could be argued that the Establishment Clause of the Constitution would nullify adoption of Sharia Law and prohibit government from preventing a congregation from meeting to exercise their religion.
So define “exercise”.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by 89Hen »

kalm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:41 pm
UNI88 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:36 pm


There is a significant difference between a congregation wanting to gather vs. a community wanting to follow Sharia Law rather than the Constitution. I believe it could be argued that the Establishment Clause of the Constitution would nullify adoption of Sharia Law and prohibit government from preventing a congregation from meeting to exercise their religion.
So define “exercise”.
My religion says I must attend mass every week.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

89Hen wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:52 pm
kalm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:41 pm


So define “exercise”.
My religion says I must attend mass every week.
Mohammed’s says he should kill apostates.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:22 pm
So Trump declares people can go to church and he’ll override any governor who says otherwise.

Where are all of the state’s rights folks?
10th Amendment- Those powers not expressly given to federal government by the Constitution are reserved to states or the people. That's why I believe drug legalization, gay marriage, abortion, etc should be left up to the states.

OTOH, any restriction on religion (1A) and guns (2A) shouldn't be left up to the states IMHOP. Those rights are enshrined right there in the Constitution.

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Winterborn »

Gil Dobie wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 8:28 am
Gil Dobie wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 6:25 pm
My former HS classmate said the COVID units in ND are very busy.
She also mentioned, many of the COVID patients are also from other states. I assume Western Minnesota, as Fargo is a regional center.
And still no deaths.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:37 pm
kalm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:22 pm
So Trump declares people can go to church and he’ll override any governor who says otherwise.

Where are all of the state’s rights folks?
10th Amendment- Those powers not expressly given to federal government by the Constitution are reserved to states or the people. That's why I believe drug legalization, gay marriage, abortion, etc should be left up to the states.

OTOH, any restriction on religion (1A) and guns (2A) shouldn't be left up to the states IMHOP. Those rights are enshrined right there in the Constitution.
So define “exercise”.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

While my County is moving to phase 2 with salons, bars, and restaurants reopening and people heading out to mingle you have this. Surreal rollercoaster....


“At a Thursday press conference, Steven Reed, the mayor of Montgomery, Alabama, said his city's hospitals have run out of beds in their Intensive Care Units, where coronavirus patients are normally treated.

The lack of beds is partly caused by patients driving in from rural areas that lack hospitals.

"Many people in Montgomery hospitals are not from Montgomery," Reed said. "They're suffering because they don't have the rural health care system in place that they need."

Montgomery city health officials are instructing sick people to try and gain admittance into the hospitals of Birmingham, the state's second-largest city, more than 100 miles southeast.

Reed's comments come just as the state experienced its second-highest ever day of newly confirmed COVID-19 cases on May 21. "A third of the state's total overall cases have occurred just in the last two weeks," according to WBHM reporter Janae Pierre. Also this week, two of the state's largest high schools held graduation ceremonies at a baseball stadium“


https://www.newsweek.com/alabama-reopen ... 1590192331
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

Winterborn wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:40 pm
Gil Dobie wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 8:28 am


She also mentioned, many of the COVID patients are also from other states. I assume Western Minnesota, as Fargo is a regional center.
And still no deaths.
Not sure what you mean by no deaths.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by houndawg »

AshevilleApp wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:37 pm
kalm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:22 pm
So Trump declares people can go to church and he’ll override any governor who says otherwise.

Where are all of the state’s rights folks?
Question for the lawyers here is does he have the authority to do so?

God, (or Allah, Yaweh, Baal, Zeus or whatever(s)) help me though, I think he may be on the right track about the issue from a governing standpoint. Restraining religion in any way in this country seems to be skating on pretty thin legal ice. Better to just leave it alone. I also think it's piss poor judgement of the churches to meet when their is a possibility of harming congregants. The Almighty(ies) will hear you even if your neighbor doesn't.
They want their donations in cash :coffee:
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by AshevilleApp »

Chizzang wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:15 pm
AshevilleApp wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:37 pm


Question for the lawyers here is does he have the authority to do so?

God, (or Allah, Yaweh, Baal, Zeus or whatever(s)) help me though, I think he may be on the right track about the issue from a governing standpoint. Restraining religion in any way in this country seems to be skating on pretty thin legal ice. Better to just leave it alone. I also think it's piss poor judgement of the churches to meet when their is a possibility of harming congregants. The Almighty(ies) will hear you even if your neighbor doesn't.
Why do you think he cares if he has the "authority" ..?
He doesn't give a sh!t where his authority starts or stops - that's 'The game" he plays

He's pandering to his constituency and making a parade of the events
the statutes of his authority are meaningless - this is a Gameshow called America to him
I agree. But it is was an issue here in NC. The Governor's original stay in place order included churches. There was precedent for it in the state from the Spanish Flu era. But it was challenged and overturned by the State Supreme Court. The Gov then basically said the while he didn't agree, he wouldn't argue the issue. A good move on his part IMO.

As far as my question about Trump, I was hoping it was rhetorical. I would think it was a state or local decision to make, but figured Ivy or JJ might want to clarify.

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by AshevilleApp »

kalm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:48 pm
AshevilleApp wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:37 pm


Question for the lawyers here is does he have the authority to do so?

God, (or Allah, Yaweh, Baal, Zeus or whatever(s)) help me though, I think he may be on the right track about the issue from a governing standpoint. Restraining religion in any way in this country seems to be skating on pretty thin legal ice. Better to just leave it alone. I also think it's piss poor judgement of the churches to meet when their is a possibility of harming congregants. The Almighty(ies) will hear you even if your neighbor doesn't.
Does he have the authority to override a governors emergency orders?

“Restraining religion in anyway” is a pretty high bar. Should we allow Sharia Law if certain local governments approve of it?
No, but we should allow Muslims to meet and worship freely. And not allowing a congregation to meet seems restraining to me. It may be in their best interests not to meet, but I think government should stay away from making that call if at all possible.

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by CAA Flagship »

kalm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:45 pm
So define “exercise”.
Calisthenics

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

CAA Flagship wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:40 am
kalm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:45 pm
So define “exercise”.
Catholisthenics
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

AshevilleApp wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:12 am
kalm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:48 pm


Does he have the authority to override a governors emergency orders?

“Restraining religion in anyway” is a pretty high bar. Should we allow Sharia Law if certain local governments approve of it?
No, but we should allow Muslims to meet and worship freely. And not allowing a congregation to meet seems restraining to me. It may be in their best interests not to meet, but I think government should stay away from making that call if at all possible.
It is restraining under normal times and government in general avoids interference. These are not normal times and public safety is also a role government plays. It’s the same old limited government argument and limited rights argument. No one has lost their right to worship here.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

No wonder he’s demanding churches reopen...
The polls paint a bleak picture for Trump, who has counted on broadening his religious support by at least a few percentage points to compensate for weakened appeal with women and suburban populations. One GOP official said the dip in the president’s evangelical support also appeared in internal party polling, but disputed the notion that it had caused panic. Another person close to the campaign described an April survey by the Public Religion Research Institute, which showed a double-digit decline in Trump’s favorability among white evangelicals (-11), white Catholics (-12) and white mainline protestants (-18) from the previous month, as “pretty concerning.”
Uh oh!

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/2 ... rus-274842
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by HI54UNI »

kalm wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:18 am
AshevilleApp wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:12 am


No, but we should allow Muslims to meet and worship freely. And not allowing a congregation to meet seems restraining to me. It may be in their best interests not to meet, but I think government should stay away from making that call if at all possible.
It is restraining under normal times and government in general avoids interference. These are not normal times and public safety is also a role government plays. It’s the same old limited government argument and limited rights argument. No one has lost their right to worship here.
Please show me the "except in a pandemic" clause in the Constitution.
All my posts are satire.

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

HI54UNI wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:19 am
kalm wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:18 am


It is restraining under normal times and government in general avoids interference. These are not normal times and public safety is also a role government plays. It’s the same old limited government argument and limited rights argument. No one has lost their right to worship here.
Please show me the "except in a pandemic" clause in the Constitution.
It’s right next to the shouting fire in a crowded theater and income tax clauses.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by HI54UNI »

kalm wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:23 am
HI54UNI wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:19 am


Please show me the "except in a pandemic" clause in the Constitution.
It’s right next to the shouting fire in a crowded theater and income tax clauses.
Pretty hard to compare people coming together voluntarily to worship to shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.
All my posts are satire.

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by UNI88 »

kalmrade wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:45 pm
BDKJMU wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:37 pm

10th Amendment- Those powers not expressly given to federal government by the Constitution are reserved to states or the people. That's why I believe drug legalization, gay marriage, abortion, etc should be left up to the states.

OTOH, any restriction on religion (1A) and guns (2A) shouldn't be left up to the states IMHOP. Those rights are enshrined right there in the Constitution.
So define “exercise”.
Walking
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Abdominal Crunches

Mutilating genitalia is not exercise.

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by CAA Flagship »

kalm wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:14 am
CAA Flagship wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:40 am

Catholisthenics
:lol: :lol:

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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Gil Dobie »

Brazil is now #2 in Positive test results. Talking with my wifes co-worker, who is from Brazil. He says they have socialized medicine for everyone, it's just not very good. His family makes enough money, so they can afford a better private Dr.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

UNI88 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:20 am
kalmrade wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:45 pm


So define “exercise”.
Walking
Squats
Lunges
Push-ups
Abdominal Crunches

Mutilating genitalia is not exercise.
The constitution doesn’t mention genitalia.
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by kalm »

In at least 22 cases, a judge has denied legal challenges seeking religious exemptions to stay-at-home orders that would allow houses of worship to host gatherings, according to research by Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, a religious liberty watchdog group that promotes the separation of church and state.

The group found six examples where judges granted a religious exemption -- four of them in Kentucky, one in Kansas and one in North Carolina. Two of these cases permitted drive-in services and four allowed in-person services. There are at least ten such cases that remain undecided.


David L. Ryan/The Boston Globe via Getty ImagesMark Burgess, left, and David Rossini with Bostonian Cleaning and Restoration of Braintree cleans the aisle at St. Gregory's Church in Boston's... moreMark Burgess, left, and David Rossini with Bostonian Cleaning and Restoration of Braintree cleans the aisle at St. Gregory's Church in Boston's Dorchester during the COVID-19 pandemic on May 18, 2020.
David L. Ryan/The Boston Globe via Getty Images
The data was provided in the wake of President Donald Trump deeming houses of worship "essential." Trump demanded on Friday governors allow them to reopen "this weekend," threatening to "override" the governors if they didn't. He did not explain what legal grounds he had to do so.

Rachel Laser, president and CEO of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said the demand was "irresponsible and reckless -- and tragically, will lead to more deaths."

"Decisions about how, when and if houses of worship can offer in-person services must be left to state and local public health officials who are familiar with the unique situations they face," Laser said in a statement. "President Trump has no power to override the nation's governors in this area."
https://abcnews.go.com/US/coronavirus-l ... d=70845697
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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19

Post by Ivytalk »

kalm wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:45 am
No wonder he’s demanding churches reopen...
The polls paint a bleak picture for Trump, who has counted on broadening his religious support by at least a few percentage points to compensate for weakened appeal with women and suburban populations. One GOP official said the dip in the president’s evangelical support also appeared in internal party polling, but disputed the notion that it had caused panic. Another person close to the campaign described an April survey by the Public Religion Research Institute, which showed a double-digit decline in Trump’s favorability among white evangelicals (-11), white Catholics (-12) and white mainline protestants (-18) from the previous month, as “pretty concerning.”
Uh oh!

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/2 ... rus-274842
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