So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby ∞∞∞ » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:46 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:My Zoology degree says life begins at conception. I don't support ending a life, unless under extenuating circumstances. That being said, IMO, abortion should be a private choice, with no legal repercussions to the involved individuals that chose to end a life in this manner. I doubt the law will change.

This is a sensible position.

I have nothing against those which have a core belief that life begins at conception, or try to sway women into keeping the fetus into birth. When you start wanting to take away the right to abortions and punishing them for it, that's where things get ugly.

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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby AZGrizFan » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:34 pm

UNI88 wrote:
89Hen wrote:It's archaic to admit I don't know when a baby becomes a person so we should err on the side of caution? What exactly about that is archaic? Or did you just throw out a word hoping it would stick?


The err on the side of caution argument is a good one but I love how Conks and Donks both use it when it suits them and ignore or dismiss it when it doesn't. Climate change is a good example (not apple to apples but comparable so don't go comparing my analogies to Z's ;) ). Are we absolutely certain the humans are contributing to climate change? No. Can we reasonably assume that humans are contributing to climate change? Yes. Well then shouldn't we err on the side of caution and do something to lessen the impact?


I actually think it’s a great analogy :tothehand:

Donks insist global warming is “settled science”, conks think it’s poppycock...conks insist when life begins is “settled science” and donks are fine aborting right up to birth (or when they get to the border, whichever comes first)
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby AZGrizFan » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:35 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:My Zoology degree says life begins at conception. I don't support ending a life, unless under extenuating circumstances. That being said, IMO, abortion should be a private choice, with no legal repercussions to the involved individuals that chose to end a life in this manner. I doubt the law will change.

This is a sensible position.

I have nothing against those which have a core belief that life begins at conception, or try to sway women into keeping the fetus into birth. When you start wanting to take away the right to abortions and punishing them for it, that's where things get ugly.


Unless it’s a RELIGOUS belief...THAT you’ve made perfectly clear.
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby BDKJMU » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:20 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
89Hen wrote:It's archaic to admit I don't know when a baby becomes a person so we should err on the side of caution? What exactly about that is archaic? Or did you just throw out a word hoping it would stick?


My Zoology degree says life begins at conception. I don't support ending a life, unless under extenuating circumstances. That being said, IMO, abortion should be a private choice, with no legal repercussions to the involved individuals that chose to end a life in this manner. I doubt the law will change.


Are you talking all abortion,including partial birth?
Or did you mean to refer to non partial birth abortion?
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby 89Hen » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:40 am

∞∞∞ wrote:
UNI88 wrote:Trip, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. 89 has a different opinion and he is just as entitled to it. 89 makes a simple and logical argument that we don't really know where to draw the line on the timing of when the developing child becomes a person so let's protect the developing child's interest and rights and not allow abortions. You argue for protecting the mother's interests and rights. To believe that your opinion is absolutely right and others aren't is extremely myopic.

89's religious upbringing might have informed his opinions but they do not define them (as evidenced by his position on birth control and priest's marrying).

When an opinion is as extreme as his is trying to masquerade as logic, it's absolutely wrong. I'm not playing niceties with people if their bullshit opinions end up trampling actual logic and compassion.

89's opinion is frankly disgusting. And apathetic. And borderline sadistic.

I think your opinion is beyond disgusting, apathetic and IS sadistic.
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby CAA Flagship » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:16 am

As far as analogies go with regard to the beginning of human life, the polaroid picture is a close one.
Aim, shoot, and pull the picture from the camera. Now you wait. The picture, if left untouched in a normal environment will develop on it's own. The picture is unique in that there will never be another one taken of the same subject at the same time. If you peel back the layer too soon, the picture will stop developing and become useless. Same thing with a conception of a baby. When the egg is fertilized, that is analogous with pressing the button on the camera. If left untouched in a normal environment, a baby begins to develop and is eventually born. Birth is analogous with peeling the layer off the photograph, thus revealing the picture.

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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby Col Hogan » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:21 am

CAA Flagship wrote:As far as analogies go with regard to the beginning of human life, the polaroid picture is a close one.
Aim, shoot, and pull the picture from the camera. Now you wait. The picture, if left untouched in a normal environment will develop on it's own. The picture is unique in that there will never be another one taken of the same subject at the same time. If you peel back the layer too soon, the picture will stop developing and become useless. Same thing with a conception of a baby. When the egg is fertilized, that is analogous with pressing the button on the camera. If left untouched in a normal environment, a baby begins to develop and is eventually born. Birth is analogous with peeling the layer off the photograph, thus revealing the picture.


Except, modern medicine has, using your analogy, moved the moment that the “picture” is revealed closer and closer to when the button is pushed...Polaroid never did that...
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby CAA Flagship » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:24 am

Col Hogan wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:As far as analogies go with regard to the beginning of human life, the polaroid picture is a close one.
Aim, shoot, and pull the picture from the camera. Now you wait. The picture, if left untouched in a normal environment will develop on it's own. The picture is unique in that there will never be another one taken of the same subject at the same time. If you peel back the layer too soon, the picture will stop developing and become useless. Same thing with a conception of a baby. When the egg is fertilized, that is analogous with pressing the button on the camera. If left untouched in a normal environment, a baby begins to develop and is eventually born. Birth is analogous with peeling the layer off the photograph, thus revealing the picture.


Except, modern medicine has, using your analogy, moved the moment that the “picture” is revealed closer and closer to when the button is pushed...Polaroid never did that...

We're talking about the beginning, not the end, but yeah.

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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby 89Hen » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:35 am

CAA Flagship wrote:As far as analogies go with regard to the beginning of human life, the polaroid picture is a close one.
Aim, shoot, and pull the picture from the camera. Now you wait. The picture, if left untouched in a normal environment will develop on it's own. The picture is unique in that there will never be another one taken of the same subject at the same time. If you peel back the layer too soon, the picture will stop developing and become useless. Same thing with a conception of a baby. When the egg is fertilized, that is analogous with pressing the button on the camera. If left untouched in a normal environment, a baby begins to develop and is eventually born. Birth is analogous with peeling the layer off the photograph, thus revealing the picture.

It's a fun analogy, but really pointless to compare a human life to this.
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby Col Hogan » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:38 am

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Trip is attending...
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby kalm » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:14 am

∞∞∞ wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:My Zoology degree says life begins at conception. I don't support ending a life, unless under extenuating circumstances. That being said, IMO, abortion should be a private choice, with no legal repercussions to the involved individuals that chose to end a life in this manner. I doubt the law will change.

This is a sensible position.

I have nothing against those which have a core belief that life begins at conception, or try to sway women into keeping the fetus into birth. When you start wanting to take away the right to abortions and punishing them for it, that's where things get ugly.


Both of these. :nod:
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby Ibanez » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:34 am

∞∞∞ wrote:
UNI88 wrote:Trip, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. 89 has a different opinion and he is just as entitled to it. 89 makes a simple and logical argument that we don't really know where to draw the line on the timing of when the developing child becomes a person so let's protect the developing child's interest and rights and not allow abortions. You argue for protecting the mother's interests and rights. To believe that your opinion is absolutely right and others aren't is extremely myopic.

89's religious upbringing might have informed his opinions but they do not define them (as evidenced by his position on birth control and priest's marrying).

When an opinion is as extreme as his is trying to masquerade as logic, it's absolutely wrong. I'm not playing niceties with people if their bullshit opinions end up trampling actual logic and compassion.

89's opinion is frankly disgusting. And apathetic. And borderline sadistic.

Jesus...talk about extreme. What makes your opinion right? How is it that you’ve figured it out?


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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby Ivytalk » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:09 pm

Col Hogan wrote:Image

Trip is attending...


Yep. He's the one in the maillot....
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby Gil Dobie » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:56 pm

93henfan wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
My Zoology degree says life begins at conception. I don't support ending a life, unless under extenuating circumstances. That being said, IMO, abortion should be a private choice, with no legal repercussions to the involved individuals that chose to end a life in this manner. I doubt the law will change.


You radical!


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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby Gil Dobie » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:13 pm

BDKJMU wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
My Zoology degree says life begins at conception. I don't support ending a life, unless under extenuating circumstances. That being said, IMO, abortion should be a private choice, with no legal repercussions to the involved individuals that chose to end a life in this manner. I doubt the law will change.


Are you talking all abortion,including partial birth?
Or did you mean to refer to non partial birth abortion?


That is a good question for those that have vagina's to discuss.
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby BDKJMU » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:22 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
Are you talking all abortion,including partial birth?
Or did you mean to refer to non partial birth abortion?


That is a good question for those that have vagina's to discuss.

So you want partial birth abortion legalized?
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby JohnStOnge » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:16 pm

∞∞∞ wrote:
I have nothing against those which have a core belief that life begins at conception,


It's not a belief. It's a fact. As a matter of biology, there would be absolutely no disagreement about when life begins if we didn't have the abortion issue. We know when it begins. I've written it before but this is the quote from my college Embryology textbook that was published way back in 1974:

The formation, maturation and meeting of a male and female sex cell are all preliminary to their actual union into a combined cell, or zygote, which definitely marks the beginning of a new individual.


From Developmental Anatomy, 7th Edition, 1974, Leslie Brainerd Arey, W.B. Saunders Company.

The text also includes a diagram describing "the life span in man" with the start at Fertilization, proceeding through "Prenatal life" including "Embryo" and "Fetus" then continuing through "Postnatal life" with the various stages.

This is not a matter of real debate. The only reason there is "debate" over when life begins is that some find it necessary to deny the truth in order to justify current abortion policy. An abortion kills a member of our species that has already begun its life. Period.
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby Chizzang » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:24 pm

I believe everything that happens is Gods will...
Grandma survived cancer (Gods will)
Trump got elected (Gods will)
Some fetus get aborted (Gods will)

It's pretty simple... All you Satanic bastards need some God

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So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby andy7171 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:50 am

Chizzang wrote:I believe everything that happens is Gods will...
Grandma survived cancer (Gods will)
Trump got elected (Gods will)
Some fetus get aborted (Gods will)

It's pretty simple... All you Satanic bastards need some God


Well the first one was at least. The other two are decisions based on individual’s free will. MrSnarky.


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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby kalm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:39 am

andy7171 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:I believe everything that happens is Gods will...
Grandma survived cancer (Gods will)
Trump got elected (Gods will)
Some fetus get aborted (Gods will)

It's pretty simple... All you Satanic bastards need some God


Well the first one was at least. The other two are decisions based on individual’s free will. MrSnarky.


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So it was God’s will that grandpa was eaten by an alligator?
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby andy7171 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:43 am

kalm wrote:
andy7171 wrote:Well the first one was at least. The other two are decisions based on individual’s free will. MrSnarky.


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So it was God’s will that grandpa was eaten by an alligator?

I have no idea. What were the circumstances? Abortion was a choice as was tens of millions voting for Trump.


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So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby Ibanez » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:46 am

kalm wrote:
andy7171 wrote:Well the first one was at least. The other two are decisions based on individual’s free will. MrSnarky.


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So it was God’s will that grandpa was eaten by an alligator?

I’ve been pointing out the idiocy of “Gods Will” for a long time. It’s a cop-out. It’s as meaningless as, “I’m praying for you.”

Read this:
https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles ... -for-alex/



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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby CAA Flagship » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:49 am

Ibanez wrote:
kalm wrote:
So it was God’s will that grandpa was eaten by an alligator?

I’ve been pointing out the idiocy of “Gods Will” for a long time. It’s a cop-out. It’s as meaningless as, “I’m praying for you.”

Read this:
https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles ... -for-alex/



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I am no longer praying for you. :coffee:

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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby kalm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:51 am

andy7171 wrote:
kalm wrote:
So it was God’s will that grandpa was eaten by an alligator?

I have no idea. What were the circumstances? Abortion was a choice as was tens of millions voting for Trump.


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Grandpa was a Democratic voting catholic who supported Clinton and was fishing at a Florida pond with his 7 year old grandchild who was almost aborted until grandpa talked his daughter out of it based on religious/moral reasons. The gator grabbed him by the leg, pulled him in, and proceeded to chow down as the grandchild looked on in horror.
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Re: So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

Postby CAA Flagship » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:53 am

kalm wrote:
andy7171 wrote:I have no idea. What were the circumstances? Abortion was a choice as was tens of millions voting for Trump.


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Grandpa was a Democratic voting catholic who supported Clinton and was fishing at a Florida pond with his 7 year old grandchild who was almost aborted until grandpa talked his daughter out of it based on religious/moral reasons. The gator grabbed him by the leg, pulled him in, and proceeded to chow down as the grandchild looked on in horror.

Was this on a Tuesday?


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