What's More Important To You?

Political discussions

What's More Important To You?

Majority in Congress + POTUS
10
53%
Majority in the SCOTUS
9
47%
 
Total votes: 19

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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby CID1990 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:36 pm

BDKJMU wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
I think it WILL happen for political reasons. What is the downside, politically, for Democrats if they gain power and do it? Again: The demographic trends are in their favor. The groups that might object to them doing it are shrinking in terms of proportions of the population. Their supporters are really pissed off right now by the fact that a minority controls the government. When they gain control it's going to be pitchforks time. Their supporters are going to want blood. Figuratively, of course.

Ivy is right. It won't happen for political reasons. Its not just conks who would be universally against it- most independents would too, and even some donks. They would have to have the POTUS and a super super majority in Congress to do that, because not all donks in Congress would vote for it. And if it ever got to that point, before it did, the donks would have already had the opportunity to nominate & confirm several SCOTUS justices into the 9 member court we have now, thereby negating the need for your court packing dream.
But you go right ahead and keep believing the court packing nonsense if it makes you feel better. Anything to help relieve your TDS is probably good for you.


For a "conservative" he sure does seem to have his panties in a bunch over a couple of pretty vanilla SCOTUS picks, doesn't he?
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby Ibanez » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:22 am

JohnStOnge wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Why do you repeat the same nonsense over and over and over?
NUMEROUS years a party has had the POTUS and control of both houses since 1869 (when SCOTUS was set at 9), a SCOTUS makeup not to their liking, and SCOTUS has stayed at 9. Not even FDR changed it, and he threatened to. Not a single donk or conk POTUS has since. Not gonna happen.


The rules have changed. 10 years ago nobody would have gotten rid of the filibuster to get federal judges in general confirmed but the Democrats changed that. 10 years ago nobody would've gotten rid of the filibuster to get a Supreme Court Justice on but the Republicans changed that. If they can do it, I think they will do it. And a time will come when they can do it.


Maybe the Democrats should have thought about their actions and what it would be like to be on the receiving end.
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby GannonFan » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:50 am

Ibanez wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
The rules have changed. 10 years ago nobody would have gotten rid of the filibuster to get federal judges in general confirmed but the Democrats changed that. 10 years ago nobody would've gotten rid of the filibuster to get a Supreme Court Justice on but the Republicans changed that. If they can do it, I think they will do it. And a time will come when they can do it.


Maybe the Democrats should have thought about their actions and what it would be like to be on the receiving end.
:coffee:


They did. But they thought like JSO - they assumed they would be in power forever. Always the downfall of any party in a permanent duopoly is to think things will never change and that future, long term dominance is assured. History is filled, especially in this country, with people thinking like JSO and being proven wrong.
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby AZGrizFan » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:36 am

JohnStOnge wrote:
Ivytalk wrote:Your OCD is off the charts. Court packing will never happen for political reasons.


I think it WILL happen for political reasons. What is the downside, politically, for Democrats if they gain power and do it? Again: The demographic trends are in their favor. The groups that might object to them doing it are shrinking in terms of proportions of the population. Their supporters are really pissed off right now by the fact that a minority controls the government. When they gain control it's going to be pitchforks time. Their supporters are going to want blood. Figuratively, of course.


The Donk party is going through what the Conk party went through with the tea baggers. It's splintering before their very eyes. More centrist groups are bailing left and right as the group that is making the most noise is viewed as wacko, dangerous far lefties.

https://thefederalistpapers.org/opinion ... p-vs-obama

A new poll shows that a startling 62% of Hispanics feel they are better off under President Donald Trump than former President Barack Obama:

The financial situation of voters could be a major reason for the improvement in Trump’s approval rating.

When asked if they (voters) were better or worse off financially than they were two years ago 42% responded better off, while 26% said worse off.

Males appear to be doing better in a Trump economy than females: 49% of males reported doing better, while 21% said they were doing worse.

Alternatively 36% of females reported they were better off, while 30% said they were doing worse.

Perceptions of the financial situation varied by party and race, Democrats had the lowest improvement at 33%, with 32% doing worse.

Among Hispanics, a distinct majority – 62% believed they were better off, while 25% thought they were worse off.

The poll also shows other warning signals for Democrats as the mid-term elections approach:

Overall, voters prefer a capitalist economic system over a socialist system 54% to 24%.

Party preference shows a clear demarcation on this issue.

Those who voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016 support a Socialist economic system 37% to 34%, while those who voted for Trump supported a capitalist system 76% to 9%.

Those 18-34 were split on the two economic systems, with 42% preferring a Capitalist system and 41% a Socialist system.

This differed from the other age groups where the difference in support for Capitalism was between 38 and 42 percentage points, as compared to 1 point for 18-34 year olds.

The abortion issue appears to be very important in determining how a majority (53%) of voters will cast their ballots in November; another 23% said the issue of abortion was somewhat important to their vote in 2018. The legality of the issue among these voters is not as clear.

The survey found that 14% of voters want abortions always to be illegal.

28% believe abortion should be illegal most of the time, but with exceptions, and 34% said abortion should be legal most of the time, but with exceptions.

24% believed abortion should be legal at all the time without exception.

As expected, the issue breaks by party lines with Democrats most in support of the legality of abortions at 35%, followed by Independents at 23% and Republicans 14%.

Interestingly, Hispanics are most supportive of a total ban of abortion.
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby AZGrizFan » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:38 am

And in even WORSE news for Donks, from the same article/poll:

Democrats are also in the danger zone with the African-American community as black support for President Trump is skyrocketing.

It turns out the era of politics driven by racial identity may be over. With Barack Obama now in America’s collective rear-view mirror – and his race-motivated politics behind us, maybe we can get back to becoming one America.

Support for President Trump in the African American community stands at 16 percent.

While these sound like dismal numbers, they’re actually historically high. Shockingly so, even, especially considering Trump only received 8 percent of the black vote in November 2016.

An equally good number for the President is the “not-sure” rating among blacks.

When African Americans were asked whether they approved, disapproved or were “not sure,” one in ten were in the latter category. That raises the possibility that Trump’s approval could rise to 26 percent among a minority population that typically votes almost exclusively for Democrats.
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby JohnStOnge » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:32 pm

CID1990 wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Ivy is right. It won't happen for political reasons. Its not just conks who would be universally against it- most independents would too, and even some donks. They would have to have the POTUS and a super super majority in Congress to do that, because not all donks in Congress would vote for it. And if it ever got to that point, before it did, the donks would have already had the opportunity to nominate & confirm several SCOTUS justices into the 9 member court we have now, thereby negating the need for your court packing dream.
But you go right ahead and keep believing the court packing nonsense if it makes you feel better. Anything to help relieve your TDS is probably good for you.


For a "conservative" he sure does seem to have his panties in a bunch over a couple of pretty vanilla SCOTUS picks, doesn't he?


It's not a matter of whether I get my drawers in a wad. It's what the Democrats do. And they are like steam in a pressure cooker right now. They appear to be ultimately headed for total control and when they get there I think it's going to be no holds barred. Payback is going to be hell.
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby JohnStOnge » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:51 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:And in even WORSE news for Donks, from the same article/poll:

Democrats are also in the danger zone with the African-American community as black support for President Trump is skyrocketing.

It turns out the era of politics driven by racial identity may be over. With Barack Obama now in America’s collective rear-view mirror – and his race-motivated politics behind us, maybe we can get back to becoming one America.

Support for President Trump in the African American community stands at 16 percent.

While these sound like dismal numbers, they’re actually historically high. Shockingly so, even, especially considering Trump only received 8 percent of the black vote in November 2016.

An equally good number for the President is the “not-sure” rating among blacks.

When African Americans were asked whether they approved, disapproved or were “not sure,” one in ten were in the latter category. That raises the possibility that Trump’s approval could rise to 26 percent among a minority population that typically votes almost exclusively for Democrats.


I think you've got a fake news website there. In any case, I can't tell what the poll they're referencing is because when I click on the poll link I get a blank page.

I've been following it though and the idea that Trump has high support among non Whites is nonsense. For instance the latest Fox News poll (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07 ... l-712.html) has 73% of non Whites disapproving of Trump's job vs. 23% approving. And that is FOX NEWS; which has Trump in RELATIVELY good position overall at only 51% disapprove vs. 46% approve (the RCP average is 53.4 disapprove vs. 43.1% approve).

73% approve vs. 23% disapprove among non Whites is pretty consistent with election polling results showing that non Whites voted against Trump by 74% to 21%.

The article you guys linked is a manifestation of something I see a lot. When polls don't flatter what the right wants to believe they say polls aren't reliable. Then when some outlier poll shows something the right thinks is cool all of a sudden THAT poll is reliable and it confirms their detached view of reality.

I assure you, the body of polling does not suggest that Donald Trump is making progress among non Whites.
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby JohnStOnge » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:01 pm

As I suspected about the website you guys linked:

Image

This is the problem with the "right" at this time. And I've historically considered myself on the right. But at this time there is a very disturbing phenomenon whereby those on the right are drinking in all kinds of nonsensical misinformation. Living in an echo chamber of nonsense.
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby AZGrizFan » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:39 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:And in even WORSE news for Donks, from the same article/poll:



I think you've got a fake news website there. In any case, I can't tell what the poll they're referencing is because when I click on the poll link I get a blank page.

I've been following it though and the idea that Trump has high support among non Whites is nonsense. For instance the latest Fox News poll (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07 ... l-712.html) has 73% of non Whites disapproving of Trump's job vs. 23% approving. And that is FOX NEWS; which has Trump in RELATIVELY good position overall at only 51% disapprove vs. 46% approve (the RCP average is 53.4 disapprove vs. 43.1% approve).

73% approve vs. 23% disapprove among non Whites is pretty consistent with election polling results showing that non Whites voted against Trump by 74% to 21%.

The article you guys linked is a manifestation of something I see a lot. When polls don't flatter what the right wants to believe they say polls aren't reliable. Then when some outlier poll shows something the right thinks is cool all of a sudden THAT poll is reliable and it confirms their detached view of reality.

I assure you, the body of polling does not suggest that Donald Trump is making progress among non Whites.


God, you are a dolt sometimes.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/ ... story.html

Oh, and as for your last sentence, you have been doing that EXACT thing, in spades, for the past 18 months. The fact you don’t SEE that is **** comical.
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby BDKJMU » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:53 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:As I suspected about the website you guys linked:

Image

This is the problem with the "right" at this time. And I've historically considered myself on the right. But at this time there is a very disturbing phenomenon whereby those on the right are drinking in all kinds of nonsensical misinformation. Living in an echo chamber of nonsense.

You just described yourself to a T for the last 2 years.. You are are the ultimate echo chamber of nonsense on here, saying the same Trump :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: over and over and over..
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby Pwns » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:27 am

JohnStOnge wrote:As I suspected about the website you guys linked:

Image

This is the problem with the "right" at this time. And I've historically considered myself on the right. But at this time there is a very disturbing phenomenon whereby those on the right are drinking in all kinds of nonsensical misinformation. Living in an echo chamber of nonsense.


You should see the comment section on Slate or Salon once in a while. Many of those people live in a different f***ing planet than everyone else.
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby JohnStOnge » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:29 pm

Guys, I do not live in the kind of "isolated from reality world" much of the "right" is living in. When I look at polls I interpret them honestly and in the context of the body of polling. What a lot of people on the "right' tend to do, first of all, is say that polls aren't "accurate." They think the polls were "wrong" about the 2016 election because they falsely believe that the polls showed that Clinton was a lock. But then when there is some sliver of something in a poll that flatters their belief all of a sudden THAT result is accurate.

As far as that Emerson poll goes, I was able to find the details and it did have a relatively high approval rating among Blacks as compared to other polls. 31% of Black respondents approved of Trump's job.

But it's also out of "step" with other polls. I went through the polls that are up on the RCP average for Trump Job Approval right now along with that Emerson poll. the Economist/YouGov poll has Trump at 7% approval among Blacks. The Qunnipiac poll has him at 6% approval among Blacks. Those were the only other two such that I could find Blacks specified. But the Fox News poll has him at 23% approval among all non Whites and the Investor's Business Daily/TIPP poll has him at 19% approval among Blacks and Hispanics combined.

There's also an interesting bottom line in that Emerson poll. There is the question:

"Who would you rather have as President, Barack Obama or Donald Trump?"

And the respondents, by 52.6% to 47.4%, said they'd rather have Barack Obama.

That's not as big a gap as I would've expected. But, then again, it's also a poll where an unusually high number of Blacks said they approve of Trump's job. In any case, for all the stuff about believing they're better off or whatever else in the poll, the bottom line is that if the respondents were able to pick between Trump or Obama as President they'd pick Obama.
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby BDKJMU » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:40 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:Guys, I do not live in the kind of "isolated from reality world" much of the "right" is living in. When I look at polls I interpret them honestly and in the context of the body of polling. What a lot of people on the "right' tend to do, first of all, is say that polls aren't "accurate." They think the polls were "wrong" about the 2016 election because they falsely believe that the polls showed that Clinton was a lock. But then when there is some sliver of something in a poll that flatters their belief all of a sudden THAT result is accurate.

As far as that Emerson poll goes, I was able to find the details and it did have a relatively high approval rating among Blacks as compared to other polls. 31% of Black respondents approved of Trump's job.

But it's also out of "step" with other polls. I went through the polls that are up on the RCP average for Trump Job Approval right now along with that Emerson poll. the Economist/YouGov poll has Trump at 7% approval among Blacks. The Qunnipiac poll has him at 6% approval among Blacks. Those were the only other two such that I could find Blacks specified. But the Fox News poll has him at 23% approval among all non Whites and the Investor's Business Daily/TIPP poll has him at 19% approval among Blacks and Hispanics combined.

There's also an interesting bottom line in that Emerson poll. There is the question:

"Who would you rather have as President, Barack Obama or Donald Trump?"

And the respondents, by 52.6% to 47.4%, said they'd rather have Barack Obama.

That's not as big a gap as I would've expected. But, then again, it's also a poll where an unusually high number of Blacks said they approve of Trump's job. In any case, for all the stuff about believing they're better off or whatever else in the poll, the bottom line is that if the respondents were able to pick between Trump or Obama as President they'd pick Obama.

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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby JohnStOnge » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:00 pm

BDKJMU wrote:[
Image


The Emerson poll does show an unusually high Trump job approval rate among Blacks. But the bottom line doesn't look all that good for Trump. The majority of respondents said that if they had a choice between Obama and Trump they'd choose Obama.

That's the summary of what I wrote before. I'll add that the actual Emerson report on its poll included this Statement:

...his approval ranking is lowest in the Midwest - ,with 40% approval and 54% disapproval - a region key to Trumps 2016 electoral victory
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby Gil Dobie » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:03 pm

Can't really answer the question, as I prefer the nuts to evenly mixed, so the left nuts or right nuts don't take full control and spread their agenda without checks and balances.

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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby JohnStOnge » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:58 pm

I just don't know why people think there is a benefit to lying either to others or yourself about what public opinion is. Right now the truth is that public opinion is against Trump. Heck, it was against Trump when he got elected due to the Electoral College system. And non White public opinion is overwhelmingly against Trump. I don't get how people think it's a benefit to convince themselves that the truth is not the truth. If you don't like the truth you can try to change it. But you're not going to help your own cause by being in denial.
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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby Gil Dobie » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:32 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:I just don't know why people think there is a benefit to lying either to others or yourself about what public opinion is. Right now the truth is that public opinion is against Trump. Heck, it was against Trump when he got elected due to the Electoral College system. And non White public opinion is overwhelmingly against Trump. I don't get how people think it's a benefit to convince themselves that the truth is not the truth. If you don't like the truth you can try to change it. But you're not going to help your own cause by being in denial.


2016 Louisiana Presidential Vote
Nominee Donald Trump Hillary Clinton
Party Republican Democratic
Home state New York New York
Running mate Mike Pence Tim Kaine
Electoral vote 8 0
Popular vote 1,178,638 780,154
Percentage 58.1% 38.4%

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Re: What's More Important To You?

Postby css75 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:45 pm



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