2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Tue May 08, 2018 6:28 pm

Ibanez wrote:According to Reuters, “The France family, which controls NASCAR, is working with investment bank Goldman Sachs Group Inc (GS.N) to identify a potential deal for the company, three sources said, cautioning that the deliberations are at exploratory stage and no agreement of any kind is certain.”

http://www.charlottestories.com/france- ... perations/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Flagster and I discussed this this morning via text. The France kids cannot remove themselves from the sport fast enough. They have mismanaged it and driven it into the ground since the passing of Bill. Now they are trying to cut and run while it still has some value and before the day of reckoning when the current TV deals run their course in 2024.

If I had to wager on the most likely buyer(s), it would be either Bruton Smith or his son Marcus. I would prefer the latter. The father has shown a penchant for abandoning Southern roots. Perhaps the son has learned some lessons from dad's screw-ups.

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Fri May 11, 2018 10:35 am

I just had a teleconference with Gary Camp (Communications Director) and two other executives with Dover International Speedway. It was a good conversation.

I contacted the speedway on Monday morning, as the Park-N-Ride bus service from the Blue Hen Corporate Center was discontinued this year. It was an excellent service, whereby you paid $20/car to park in a vast parking lot a few miles south of the track and hopped on continually looping busses that would drop you off directly in front of (less than a quarter mile from) the track. It was a highly used service (though dwindling in recent years) for people coming from the south and west. They still kept open a similar service, from the Christiana Mall, for those coming from the north.

The closure of the service was not well publicized, as we found many folks at the track also bewildered about the closure. The alternate plan, per automated message boards, was to park at track Lot 1, which we did. Unfortunately, our parking space was about a mile from the track. Not a biggie for me, but we had three 70-80 year olds, a ten year old, and an eight year old in our group, and as usual, we were lugging heavy coolers and backpacks with headphones, scanner, bino's, etc. Unlike several other tracks we've been to (New Hampshire for instance), Dover wasn't running any sort of tram from parking lots to track. So we hoofed it. It was tough on the seniors and the kiddos.

Apparently the landlord of the BHCC, Pettinaro Co, decided to break their gentleman's agreement with Dover Speedway and the State to allow the service to be run from their lot. They cited additional clients in the Center as well as residents in residential properties they had built adjacent to the center no longer wanted the service running there. This seems odd, as we're talking two days a year, and it's been running for about three decades. It was unspoken in our conversation, but I'm guessing money is the real motivator. The numbers for NASCAR are simply ugly , and I'm guessing the lot was only half full as compared to max capacity ten years ago. Pettinaro either didn't like their dwindling cut, or they required a flat fee and the Speedway was taking the beating.

So anyway, it's a done deal at BHCC - not happening there anymore. They said they are exploring other areas to run the service from. I also suggested a tram service in the lots, which they seemed very receptive to, like they almost had never thought about it themselves. Seriously. :lol: These people (one chick, two dudes) all sounded like 20-30 something corporate go-getter types who weren't real in tune with their customer. Gary mentioned he graduated from my high school in 97, so I put him at about 39. I suggested they contact the Delaware State Fair, who runs a tram system of tractors and tram cars like clockwork. They were very thankful and said they'd surely check with Harrington Casino to see about instituting it.

Lastly, and I don't know if this is why I got a response, and a very personal one at that, over an average Joe. I mentioned that we were 49 year season ticket holders, top row, start/finish line since the inaugural race. One of the first thing Gary asked was if we had a ticket stub or program from the first race. Lol, you'd think they would have kept one of each of those.

Anyway, just some NASCAR behind the scene ramblings. They seem to be hurting everywhere. Will be interesting to see what the next 10-20 years holds for the sport.

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Sun May 13, 2018 6:04 am

Spanish GP about to kick off. Great qualifying by Mercedes. Lewis on pole, Bottas providing some blocking. Top 5:


Driver Teams Time
1 L Hamilton (GBR) Mercedes 1'16.173
2 V Bottas (FIN) Mercedes 1'16.213
3 S Vettel (GER) Ferrari 1'16.305
4 K Räikkönen (FIN) Ferrari 1'16.612
5 M Verstappen (NED) Red Bull 1'16.816

Ferrari showed up with some unorthodox winged mirrors. F1 banned them, but allowed them for today's race so Ferrari didn't have to refabricate their cars. Silly wops. http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11368648/spanish-gp-ferraris-halo-mounted-mirrors-banned-for-monaco

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby BDKJMU » Sun May 13, 2018 12:46 pm

So the week after sweeping Dover, winning both stages and the race, at Kansas Harvick sweeps qualifying to win the pole, and last nights wins the race, his 5th win in the 1st 12 races. Ridiculous. Truex was 2nd.

Too bad for Larson & Blaney. Larson's car was as good as Harvick's & Larson was driving out of his mind, the one Chevy who could run with the Fords & Toyotas. Larson led the most laps, 101 to Harvicks 79, won the 2nd stage, and was leading late before the 1st of 3 late cautions, after which he got a flat left rear when Blaney side swiped him. Larson ended up finishing 4th. Blaney also got a cut tire, wreck, and finished 37th, despite leading 54 laps, 3rd most to Larson & Harvick.

Truex 2nd. After 4 terrible races in April, with wrecks, flat tires, pit road issues, falling from 1st to 9th in the regular season points, he bounces back to 4th at Dover, 2nd last night, passed by Harvick, who had fresher tires along with a better car, with a little over a lap to go. Truex was maybe a Top 15 car 1st Stage, improved to maybe a top 5 car at best the last stage behind Larson, Harvick, Blaney.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Sun May 13, 2018 1:07 pm

Hamilton puts a little distance on Vettel in the the F1 championship with a dominating win in Spain.

The Ericsson/Sainz battle at 3:35 is insanity in open wheel cars. :shock:
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby SuperHornet » Mon May 14, 2018 5:41 pm

It's time.

Go Danica....
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby clenz » Mon May 14, 2018 6:13 pm

I mean, I get the technology side of F1 but outside of a few seconds of passing at the back of the field it doesn't sound any less boring than NASCAR

This past weekend it was won by 21 seconds. Hamilton lead 58 of 64 laps. The only laps he didn't lead were when he pit and the pit structure staggered. Then when Verstappen went to pit he took the lead back and lead by 20 seconds the entire race. Only 4 finished on the lead lap, and 9 finished multiple laps down on a 64 lap race.

Even behind him the gaps were big. Gap from 2nd to 3rd was nearly 7 seconds. 3rd to 4th was close at .7 of a second, then there was a 23 second gap to 5th. 6th was a lap down, 7th was 37 seconds behind 6th. 8th was 5 seconds behind 7th.

I'll admit to not watching it, but based on everything I can read about it it sure sounds like it was pretty "boring" for an hour and a half.

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Mon May 14, 2018 6:33 pm

clenz wrote:I mean, I get the technology side of F1 but outside of a few seconds of passing at the back of the field it doesn't sound any less boring than NASCAR

This past weekend it was won by 21 seconds. Hamilton lead 58 of 64 laps. The only laps he didn't lead were when he pit and the pit structure staggered. Then when Verstappen went to pit he took the lead back and lead by 20 seconds the entire race. Only 4 finished on the lead lap, and 9 finished multiple laps down on a 64 lap race.

Even behind him the gaps were big. Gap from 2nd to 3rd was nearly 7 seconds. 3rd to 4th was close at .7 of a second, then there was a 23 second gap to 5th. 6th was a lap down, 7th was 37 seconds behind 6th. 8th was 5 seconds behind 7th.

I'll admit to not watching it, but based on everything I can read about it it sure sounds like it was pretty "boring" for an hour and a half.


F1 does not manufacture competition like NASCAR does with restrictor plates, three different cars (Camry, Camaro, Fusion) that have nowhere near the same dimensions in stock form but all have to meet the same laser template for NASCAR inspection, stage racing to catch the field back up and show another ten minutes of commercials, lucky dogs and wave-arounds to keep everyone on the lead lap when possible, a Chase format that is win and in and promotes cautious racing.

NASCAR does all of this to keep cars bunched up and banging on each other. It’s basically become IROC. Coincidentally, IROC was formed in part because stock style cars are the easiest and most forgiving for drivers of any form to jump in and drive. They have fenders, you can bang into other cars without getting sent into the air, and your chance of dying in one is quite slim.

And of course, F1 drivers are simply better. Yeah, I said it. They have more skill. In modern F1, if you make it to 40 and still have a ride, you are a freak.

Meanwhile in NASCAR, Morgan Shephard is still plugging at 76. /post
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby clenz » Mon May 14, 2018 6:33 pm

Also interesting result from Google

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/133451/f1-overtaking-falls-by-almost-50%25-in-2017

The 2017 Formula 1 season represented the worst year for overtaking in the DRS era, as the number of completed passes was almost half that recorded the previous year.

Pirelli released analysis data from the 2017 campaign - the first season for the new generation of wider, faster cars - on Monday that revealed the number of overtakes it registered over the 20-race season was down to 435.

That represented a 49% drop from the 866 passes that were recorded in 2016 when there was one more race.

The 2016 figure was the highest since records began in the early 1980s, while this season's 435 is the lowest since the 211 passes that took place in '09 - which was before DRS was introduced to help overtaking.

This year's Azerbaijan Grand Prix in Baku accounted for the most overtaking moves in one race, with 42 in total.At the other end of the spectrum was the Russian Grand Prix at Sochi (above) in which just one pass was recorded.

Daniel Ricciardo ended the year as F1's top overtaker, pulling off a total of 43 passes during the campaign.

An impressive 13 of these came at the British Grand Prix, when he charged his way through the field after taking a grid penalty for a new gearbox and power unit components.

Ricciardo's team-mate Max Verstappen pulled off 22 moves himself, which meant Red Bull cars completed the most overtakes over the course of the season.

Lance Stroll's strong recovery from poor qualifying efforts was reflected as he was the driver who pulled off the most passes on the first lap of races - with 36 over the course of the season.


So the lowest follows the highest. I'd be interested to see how this year is shaping up. Imagine a race with just 1 overtake though. How is that exciting in anyway?

Based on early results it's getting worse

https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/01/analysis-f1-overtaking-melbourne/

Overtaking got a lot harder in F1 in 2017. And judging by the comments of several drivers after last weekend’s Australian Grand Prix, it’s got worse over the off-season.

With little change in the aerodynamic regulations, cars are now even more sensitive to running in turbulence. “You already feel some losses when you are three seconds away,” said Valtteri Bottas.

Just 15 overtaking moves were recorded throughout the field by Mercedes in Melbourne last week. As many pointed out, IndyCar trumpeted 366 overtaking moves in its season-opening race on the streets of St Petersburg.

Formula One Management intends to address the problem but, according to Ross Brawn, is unlikely to implement a solution before 2021. Does it need to act more urgently? How much worse has F1’s passing problem got in 2018?



Apparently enough for F1 to try to make changes starting next year to create move overtakes. This article was written just 2 weeks after the previous one from the same site

https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/01/f1-approves-car-changes-to-increase-overtaking-in-2019/

Formula One cars will undergo a series of changes in 2019 aimed at making overtaking easier.

Simpler front wings and brake ducts are among the changes which were approved in a vote yesterday. Rear wings will also be made wider and deeper, increasing the power of drag reduction systems.
However a further proposal to simplify the barge board designs on next year’s cars was not approved.

The FIA is confident the changes will make it easier for cars to race closely in 2019.

“Today’s vote follows an intense period of research into the FIA’s initial proposals, which were made with the support of the F1 Commercial Rights Holder, conducted by a majority of the F1 teams,” said the sport’s governing body in a statement.

“These studies indicated the strong likelihood of a positive impact on racing and overtaking within F1 and as such have now been ratified for implementation in 2019.”

Front wing designs will be reshaped to curb the use of ‘outwashing’ designs. These are believed to cause much of the turbulence drivers encounter when follower other cars closely.

The front wing change was proposed as a result of the research conducted into how to improve racing in 2021.

“The approved changes are separate to the ongoing work being undertaken in regard to defining Formula 1’s regulations for 2021 and beyond,” the FIA confirmed.

“In addition to the aerodynamic changes ratified today, the FIA is continuing to evaluate a range of other measures aimed at encouraging closer racing and boosting overtaking in F1,” it added.


These changes will make the cars almost 2 seconds slower per another article on that site.


If it's about excitement and open wheel skill wouldn't Indy be the way to go? They've had 999 passes in the first 4 races of 2018 - https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news ... 8-1030065/ - Now, maybe it's not fair to compare those two. I'll believe that.

It's just hard for an outsider to see a race with 12 total passes, average time between finishers at 15 seconds, and only reason the lead changes is pit stops only to be given right back on a pit stop a few laps later as "more exciting that nascar"

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Mon May 14, 2018 6:35 pm

Again, F1 does not have manufactured bunching like NASCAR.

And as a 40+ year die-hard fan of NASCAR who watched his first F1 race in 2015, I find it far more interesting than NASCAR. 100% God’s honest truth.

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby clenz » Mon May 14, 2018 6:37 pm

93henfan wrote:
clenz wrote:I mean, I get the technology side of F1 but outside of a few seconds of passing at the back of the field it doesn't sound any less boring than NASCAR

This past weekend it was won by 21 seconds. Hamilton lead 58 of 64 laps. The only laps he didn't lead were when he pit and the pit structure staggered. Then when Verstappen went to pit he took the lead back and lead by 20 seconds the entire race. Only 4 finished on the lead lap, and 9 finished multiple laps down on a 64 lap race.

Even behind him the gaps were big. Gap from 2nd to 3rd was nearly 7 seconds. 3rd to 4th was close at .7 of a second, then there was a 23 second gap to 5th. 6th was a lap down, 7th was 37 seconds behind 6th. 8th was 5 seconds behind 7th.

I'll admit to not watching it, but based on everything I can read about it it sure sounds like it was pretty "boring" for an hour and a half.


F1 does not manufacture competition like NASCAR does with restrictor plates, three different cars (Camry, Camaro, Fusion) that have nowhere near the same dimensions in stock form but all have to meet the same laser template for NASCAR inspection, stage racing to catch the field back up and show another ten minutes of commercials, lucky dogs and wave-arounds to keep everyone on the lead lap when possible, a Chase format that is win and in and promotes cautious racing.

NASCAR does all of this to keep cars bunched up and banging on each other. It’s basically become IROC. Coincidentally, IROC was formed in part because stock style cars are the easiest and most forgiving for drivers of any form to jump in and drive. They have fenders, you can bang into other cars without getting sent into the air, and your chance of dying in one is quite slim.

And of course, F1 drivers are simply better. Yeah, I said it. They have more skill. In modern F1, if you make it to 40 and still have a ride, you are a freak.

Meanwhile in NASCAR, Morgan Shephard is still plugging at 76. /post

But they are trying to manufacture competition - see my previous post.


I can't remember where I saw the comp - maybe it was earlier on this thread but I don't think it was - that the difference between open wheel and stock car - and why drivers struggle to cross over - is in an open wheel car isn't impossible to push the car to it's limit, let alone past. While stock car is all about figuring out how to push the car harder and harder.

It's a finesse vs power deal. I'm not doing the video justice but it was interesting.

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby clenz » Mon May 14, 2018 6:42 pm

I'm not arguing for or against either. I don't watch F1. I hardly watch NASCAR outside of checking Landon's finish.

I just like playing devils advocate.

Also let it be known I find soccer, and the chess match that is, wildly entertaining.

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Mon May 14, 2018 6:46 pm

clenz wrote:I'm not arguing for or against either. I don't watch F1. I hardly watch NASCAR outside of checking Landon's finish.

I just like playing devils advocate.

Also let it be known I find soccer, and the chess match that is, wildly entertaining.


Fair enough. :thumb:

Give this a watch. I'm a Hamilton fan. Here is an example of why. This is before I even started watching F1, but it gives me chills. Just nick one of those walls or one of those tires on the other cars and your day is over. How you even make a pass on a track as narrow as Monaco, going that fast, is a miracle.

Balls. Of. Steel.

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby clenz » Mon May 14, 2018 6:52 pm

I don't disagree with that, at all.

I guess my question is how often does that happen in F1? Indy it seems to happen all the time (I'll watch some Indy if it's on and I happen to catch it and it's nuts to see how the cars move), but if there is an average of 15 passes, total, in an F1 race how many are that spectacular? Can't be that many given how many happen due to pit stops.

I'm not disagreeing with the idea that driving an open wheel car takes more technical skill. I just don't know that I can agree with your idea that F1 is "less boring" based on the idea that there is maybe 20 seconds of intense passing action in an hour and a half.

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Mon May 14, 2018 6:56 pm

clenz wrote:I don't disagree with that, at all.

I guess my question is how often does that happen in F1? Indy it seems to happen all the time (I'll watch some Indy if it's on and I happen to catch it and it's nuts to see how the cars move), but if there is an average of 15 passes, total, in an F1 race how many are that spectacular? Can't be that many given how many happen due to pit stops.

I'm not disagreeing with the idea that driving an open wheel car takes more technical skill. I just don't know that I can agree with your idea that F1 is "less boring" based on the idea that there is maybe 20 seconds of intense passing action in an hour and a half.


I find manufactured competition boring. I guess 40 years, which went from the golden years to a modern manipulated atrocity, has made it extremely boring to me.

F1 is about more than passing. Qualifying is more exciting, the start is more exciting, tire strategy is very important, the stakes of contact are far higher which makes the blood pressure spike (seriously go back to the Spain GP video I posted yesterday and watch Ericsson and Sainz at 3:35 - **** ME RUNNING - the block on entry, the tire to tire through turn 1, and then almost clipping rear to front on turn 2 exit), etc. Just a different form of racing that I find far less boring. NASCAR is just brutal for me to watch anymore. I went to Dover to be with my family. I hated the race. Usually do.

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Thu May 17, 2018 4:31 pm

Just a summary of what I and some others have been saying for years and years now :notworthy:

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Fri May 18, 2018 10:39 am

I didn't feel like starting a thread for British Super Bikes.

Anyway, apparently they didn't get their #MeToo briefing:

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby BDKJMU » Mon May 21, 2018 3:12 pm

1st 2 1/2 min Trump mostly thanking a bunch of pols & others in attendance. Starts talking NASCAR at the 2 1/2 minute mark. Unfortunately starts off with "My good friend Brian France is here. He is doing a fantastic job..." :roll:
Truex briefly speaks & presents Trump with a replica helmet he wore at Homestead.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby ∞∞∞ » Wed May 23, 2018 6:40 am

I was at a thrift store yesterday when I came across this gem NASCAR licensed:

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And only $1.99...what a steal!

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Thu May 24, 2018 6:45 am

Motorsportsgasm weekend. 1,261.734 miles of action.

76th Monaco GP - 9:10 AM EDT, ESPN
102nd Indy 500 - 12:19 PM EDT, ABC
59th World 600 - 6 PM EDT, Fox
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby ∞∞∞ » Thu May 24, 2018 10:40 am

Saw this F1 video while cutting onions:


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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Fri May 25, 2018 6:23 am

Monaco:

Red Bulls were quickest in practice, then Mercedes and Ferrari. Ricciardo set a new track record on the first-ever use of the Pirelli hypersofts.

Long red flag during FP2 to get a welder out to tack down a loose manhole cover. That's not something you see a lot in NASCAR. I could only imagine what a flipped up manhole cover would do to an F1 car screaming down the street at 200 mph.

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby polsongrizz » Fri May 25, 2018 8:16 am

93henfan wrote:Monaco:

Red Bulls were quickest in practice, then Mercedes and Ferrari. Ricciardo set a new track record on the first-ever use of the Pirelli hypersofts.

Long red flag during FP2 to get a welder out to tack down a loose manhole cover. That's not something you see a lot in NASCAR. I could only imagine what a flipped up manhole cover would do to an F1 car screaming down the street at 200 mph.

You do see it though in indy car street races.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby CAA Flagship » Fri May 25, 2018 8:46 am

93henfan wrote:Monaco:

Red Bulls were quickest in practice, then Mercedes and Ferrari. Ricciardo set a new track record on the first-ever use of the Pirelli hypersofts.

Long red flag during FP2 to get a welder out to tack down a loose manhole cover. That's not something you see a lot in NASCAR. I could only imagine what a flipped up manhole cover would do to an F1 car screaming down the street at 200 mph.

*personhole cover

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Postby 93henfan » Fri May 25, 2018 9:41 am

CAA Flagship wrote:
93henfan wrote:Monaco:

Red Bulls were quickest in practice, then Mercedes and Ferrari. Ricciardo set a new track record on the first-ever use of the Pirelli hypersofts.

Long red flag during FP2 to get a welder out to tack down a loose manhole cover. That's not something you see a lot in NASCAR. I could only imagine what a flipped up manhole cover would do to an F1 car screaming down the street at 200 mph.

*personhole cover


There are a lot of those in Personhattan!


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