Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby UNI88 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:37 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: :lol: :lol:
You still don't understand him, do you? :ohno:


Sure I do. He lies constantly. His modus operandi is dealing in misinformation. I understand him completely. He's a complete fraud.

Here's the Factcheck.org assessment of his statement yesterday morning:

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/07/trump ... s-at-nato/

NATO defense spending was increasing before he got into office and there was no "thing" where NATO countries agreed to ramp things up as he claimed.

And Factcheck.org did back up what it said. NOTHING the guy says can be taken seriously. The question is whether the people who SUPPORT him understand him. If they do and they still support him they should be ashamed of themselves.


John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?

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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby AZGrizFan » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:42 pm

UNI88 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Sure I do. He lies constantly. His modus operandi is dealing in misinformation. I understand him completely. He's a complete fraud.

Here's the Factcheck.org assessment of his statement yesterday morning:

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/07/trump ... s-at-nato/

NATO defense spending was increasing before he got into office and there was no "thing" where NATO countries agreed to ramp things up as he claimed.

And Factcheck.org did back up what it said. NOTHING the guy says can be taken seriously. The question is whether the people who SUPPORT him understand him. If they do and they still support him they should be ashamed of themselves.


John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?


I guarantee you Trump doesn’t know 60 associates/business partners that have died or committed suicide under suspicious circumstances.... :ohno:
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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby JohnStOnge » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:12 pm

UNI88 wrote:
John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?


I think I've responded to that argument before, but maybe it wasn't to you in particular. During the campaign I said that some of Trump's lies were indeed pretty significant. Things like claiming he was against attacking Gaddafi in Lybia when he's on video saying he thought we should directly use the US military to do it. To me that's a pretty significant lie because it's an effort to tell people you'd have made a different decision than you would have made.

I also think he lied routinely to banks during his business career. I think he routinely made agreements knowing he would break them and that's what led to US banks refusing to work with him.

To me the Trump University thing represents some significant lying. He scammed the hell out of people on that one. It wasn't government. But those were significant lies.

I think lying about what NATO countries have been doing with military spending is pretty significant as well. He's trying to create completely false impressions in the minds of his followers.

Here' the thing: He lies constantly. It's the way he operates. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't lie in a heartbeat about any matter big or small. Like for instance I know a lot of people think people in the Obama Administrations lied when they said they thought the attack was the result of a video. I am among them. But do you think Trump would hesitate to lie under similar circumstances? I hope not.

He's going to lie. He's going to lie about small things. He's going to lie about big things. Yes it's about frequency. If you lie practically every time you open your mouth that's important.
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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby JohnStOnge » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:15 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
I guarantee you Trump doesn’t know 60 associates/business partners that have died or committed suicide under suspicious circumstances.... :ohno:


You're kidding, right? You're not seriously invoking that nut job conspiracy theory stuff, are you?
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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby houndawg » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:20 am

AZGrizFan wrote:
houndawg wrote:


Jesus. You've gone "full trip". They live longer and have lower infant mortality because they spend their money on social programs while we spend our money defending them.



You don't even believe that **** yourself. :coffee:
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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby houndawg » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:22 am

AZGrizFan wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?


I guarantee you Trump doesn’t know 60 associates/business partners that have died or committed suicide under suspicious circumstances.... :ohno:




:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

look who went "full trip"... :lmao:
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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby houndawg » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:25 am

JohnStOnge wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?


I think I've responded to that argument before, but maybe it wasn't to you in particular. During the campaign I said that some of Trump's lies were indeed pretty significant. Things like claiming he was against attacking Gaddafi in Lybia when he's on video saying he thought we should directly use the US military to do it. To me that's a pretty significant lie because it's an effort to tell people you'd have made a different decision than you would have made.

I also think he lied routinely to banks during his business career. I think he routinely made agreements knowing he would break them and that's what led to US banks refusing to work with him.

To me the Trump University thing represents some significant lying. He scammed the hell out of people on that one. It wasn't government. But those were significant lies.

I think lying about what NATO countries have been doing with military spending is pretty significant as well. He's trying to create completely false impressions in the minds of his followers.

Here' the thing: He lies constantly. It's the way he operates. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't lie in a heartbeat about any matter big or small. Like for instance I know a lot of people think people in the Obama Administrations lied when they said they thought the attack was the result of a video. I am among them. But do you think Trump would hesitate to lie under similar circumstances? I hope not.

He's going to lie. He's going to lie about small things. He's going to lie about big things. Yes it's about frequency. If you lie practically every time you open your mouth that's important.



He lies all the time but the thing is: he believes everything he says at the time he says it.
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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby BDKJMU » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:55 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?


I think I've responded to that argument before, but maybe it wasn't to you in particular. During the campaign I said that some of Trump's lies were indeed pretty significant. Things like claiming he was against attacking Gaddafi in Lybia when he's on video saying he thought we should directly use the US military to do it. To me that's a pretty significant lie because it's an effort to tell people you'd have made a different decision than you would have made.

I also think he lied routinely to banks during his business career. I think he routinely made agreements knowing he would break them and that's what led to US banks refusing to work with him.

To me the Trump University thing represents some significant lying. He scammed the hell out of people on that one. It wasn't government. But those were significant lies.

I think lying about what NATO countries have been doing with military spending is pretty significant as well. He's trying to create completely false impressions in the minds of his followers.

Here' the thing: He lies constantly. It's the way he operates. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't lie in a heartbeat about any matter big or small. Like for instance I know a lot of people think people in the Obama Administrations lied when they said they thought the attack was the result of a video. I am among them. But do you think Trump would hesitate to lie under similar circumstances? I hope not.

He's going to lie. He's going to lie about small things. He's going to lie about big things. Yes it's about frequency. If you lie practically every time you open your mouth that's important.

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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby AZGrizFan » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:04 pm

houndawg wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
I guarantee you Trump doesn’t know 60 associates/business partners that have died or committed suicide under suspicious circumstances.... :ohno:




:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

look who went "full trip"... :lmao:


Following Jon’s lead. :tothehand:
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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby AZGrizFan » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:04 pm

houndawg wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Jesus. You've gone "full trip". They live longer and have lower infant mortality because they spend their money on social programs while we spend our money defending them.



You don't even believe that **** yourself. :coffee:


It’s 100% the truth, pal.
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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby kalm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:22 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
houndawg wrote:

You don't even believe that **** yourself. :coffee:


It’s 100% the truth, pal.


And both are choices. :coffee:
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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby AZGrizFan » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:34 pm

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
It’s 100% the truth, pal.


And both are choices. :coffee:


Oh, agreed 100%. But many of those choices were made dozens and dozens of years ago...and when you try to get them OFF that crack (like Trump purports to be doing), it can be a painful, difficult transition.

One that I think, ultimately, will never be made.
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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby kalm » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:51 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
And both are choices. :coffee:


Oh, agreed 100%. But many of those choices were made dozens and dozens of years ago...and when you try to get them OFF that crack (like Trump purports to be doing), it can be a painful, difficult transition.

One that I think, ultimately, will never be made.


:nod:
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Re: RE: Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby UNI88 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:20 am

JohnStOnge wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
John we've been through this before. You continue to focus on the total number or percentage of lies while ignoring the depth of the lies, the damage the lies cause and the lies of omission and obfuscation. You ignore any argument that doesn't fit your narrative. Isn't that bias?


I think I've responded to that argument before, but maybe it wasn't to you in particular. During the campaign I said that some of Trump's lies were indeed pretty significant. Things like claiming he was against attacking Gaddafi in Lybia when he's on video saying he thought we should directly use the US military to do it. To me that's a pretty significant lie because it's an effort to tell people you'd have made a different decision than you would have made.

I also think he lied routinely to banks during his business career. I think he routinely made agreements knowing he would break them and that's what led to US banks refusing to work with him.

To me the Trump University thing represents some significant lying. He scammed the hell out of people on that one. It wasn't government. But those were significant lies.

I think lying about what NATO countries have been doing with military spending is pretty significant as well. He's trying to create completely false impressions in the minds of his followers.

Here' the thing: He lies constantly. It's the way he operates. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't lie in a heartbeat about any matter big or small. Like for instance I know a lot of people think people in the Obama Administrations lied when they said they thought the attack was the result of a video. I am among them. But do you think Trump would hesitate to lie under similar circumstances? I hope not.

He's going to lie. He's going to lie about small things. He's going to lie about big things. Yes it's about frequency. If you lie practically every time you open your mouth that's important.
I don't disagree that Trump is a bufoon and a con artist. Where I disagree is your argument that Trump is/was a significantly worse liar or candidate than Hildamort. They were neck and neck with each other as seriously flawed candidates and Hildamort's lies and omissions were much more insidious IMO. Trump's lies are embarrassingly brazen but easily spotted.

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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby houndawg » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:27 am

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Oh, agreed 100%. But many of those choices were made dozens and dozens of years ago...and when you try to get them OFF that crack (like Trump purports to be doing), it can be a painful, difficult transition.

One that I think, ultimately, will never be made.


:nod:


I certainly hope not; where would my grandkids go to college?
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Re: RE: Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby houndawg » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:32 am

UNI88 wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
I think I've responded to that argument before, but maybe it wasn't to you in particular. During the campaign I said that some of Trump's lies were indeed pretty significant. Things like claiming he was against attacking Gaddafi in Lybia when he's on video saying he thought we should directly use the US military to do it. To me that's a pretty significant lie because it's an effort to tell people you'd have made a different decision than you would have made.

I also think he lied routinely to banks during his business career. I think he routinely made agreements knowing he would break them and that's what led to US banks refusing to work with him.

To me the Trump University thing represents some significant lying. He scammed the hell out of people on that one. It wasn't government. But those were significant lies.

I think lying about what NATO countries have been doing with military spending is pretty significant as well. He's trying to create completely false impressions in the minds of his followers.

Here' the thing: He lies constantly. It's the way he operates. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't lie in a heartbeat about any matter big or small. Like for instance I know a lot of people think people in the Obama Administrations lied when they said they thought the attack was the result of a video. I am among them. But do you think Trump would hesitate to lie under similar circumstances? I hope not.

He's going to lie. He's going to lie about small things. He's going to lie about big things. Yes it's about frequency. If you lie practically every time you open your mouth that's important.


I don't disagree that Trump is a bufoon and a con artist. Where I disagree is your argument that Trump is/was a significantly worse liar or candidate than Hildamort. They were neck and neck with each other as seriously flawed candidates and Hildamort's lies and omissions were much more insidious IMO. Trump's lies are embarrassingly brazen but easily spotted.


Maybe not but he is still a buffoon and a con artist and a traitor and he doesn't even try to make a pretense of attempting to govern the nation or do anything else that would be taking time out from his looting of the public treasury. :coffee:
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby UNI88 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:33 am

houndawg wrote:
UNI88 wrote:
I don't disagree that Trump is a bufoon and a con artist. Where I disagree is your argument that Trump is/was a significantly worse liar or candidate than Hildamort. They were neck and neck with each other as seriously flawed candidates and Hildamort's lies and omissions were much more insidious IMO. Trump's lies are embarrassingly brazen but easily spotted.


Maybe not but he is still a buffoon and a con artist and a traitor and he doesn't even try to make a pretense of attempting to govern the nation or do anything else that would be taking time out from his looting of the public treasury. :coffee:
And Clinton would have been different?

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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby ASUG8 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:43 pm

You have to give credit where it's due. I've never seen a president who was capable of pissing off Australia and Canada - that takes a special talent. :ohno:

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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby AZGrizFan » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:53 pm

ASUG8 wrote:You have to give credit where it's due. I've never seen a president who was capable of pissing off Australia and Canada - that takes a special talent. :ohno:

:lol: :lol:
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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby CID1990 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:05 pm

I found this article obliquely while I was reading about ME policy and found it to be a really good read. Among several takeaways, I found this part especially interesting, given that President Obama referred to NATO and other countries in strategic relationships with the US as "free riders":

"If Obama ever questioned whether America really is the world’s one indispensable nation, he no longer does so. But he is the rare president who seems at times to resent indispensability, rather than embrace it. “Free riders aggravate me,” he told me. Recently, Obama warned that Great Britain would no longer be able to claim a “special relationship” with the United States if it did not commit to spending at least 2 percent of its GDP on defense. “You have to pay your fair share,” Obama told David Cameron, who subsequently met the 2 percent threshold."

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ne/471525/
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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby mainejeff » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:34 am

Is Obama becoming President again? :) :o :) :o :notworthy: :notworthy:

:coffee:
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Re: RE: Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby UNI88 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:40 am

mainejeff wrote:Is Obama becoming President again? :) :o :) :o :notworthy: :notworthy:

:coffee:
Kind of like "but Bush" and CID's just pointing out the hypocrisy of the Orange Man bad crowd.


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Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby Skjellyfetti » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:59 am

What's hypocritical?

Yeah, the 2% commitment was initiated by Obama. Most people think it was a part of NATO since it's inception. The countries agreed to work toward spending 2% of their GDP on defense by 2024.

I didn't know he called them "free riders"... But, who gives a ****? Sounds like he did it privately and he handled getting the 2% commitment diplomatically.
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Re: RE: Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby mainejeff » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:45 am

UNI88 wrote:
mainejeff wrote:Is Obama becoming President again? :) :o :) :o :notworthy: :notworthy:

:coffee:
Kind of like "but Bush" and CID's just pointing out the hypocrisy of the Orange Man bad crowd.


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He IS a bad man....a very bad man. And I can't believe the people giving him a free pass in comparison to other Presidents. I guess it's just the anti-government crowd that would rather see a free-for-all anarchy type set-up in this country. Let's see.....anti-government, pro-gun, pro-authoritarian....yeah, I think most of us see where this is going and we WILL stop it. :nod:

:coffee:
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Trump Gave Merkel an Invoice for NATO

Postby UNI88 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:56 am

mainejeff wrote:
UNI88 wrote:Kind of like "but Bush" and CID's just pointing out the hypocrisy of the Orange Man bad crowd.


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He IS a bad man....a very bad man. And I can't believe the people giving him a free pass in comparison to other Presidents. I guess it's just the anti-government crowd that would rather see a free-for-all anarchy type set-up in this country. Let's see.....anti-government, pro-gun, pro-authoritarian....yeah, I think most of us see where this is going and we WILL stop it. :nod:

:coffee:


Yes he is a bad man but that doesn't mean that everything he proposes or does is bad which the Donks don't seem to understand (and the Conks didn't seem to understand with Obama).

The anarchy argument is even more BS then the Soviet socialist argument that I like to use.

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