The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:05 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Ok. I say that the kind of percent growth we've had in the DJIA under Trump is within the range of variation within the current Bull Market run prior to Trump getting elected or taking office. You can look at annual returns at http://www.1stock1.com/1stock1_139.htm. The Bull market started during 2009.

The range of return rates for the DJIA for 2009 through 2016 is -2.23% through 26.5%. We have one full year under Trump to evaluate. The rate of return for 2017 was 25.08%.

Is 25.08 within the range -2.23 through 26.5 or is it not? There's an objective answer to that question. It's not a matter of opinion.

Now, there is a chance that we could get something beyond the range of what happened during 2009 through 2016 if the return for 2018 exceeds 8.74%. If that happens the first two full years under Trump will exceed any two year rate of return during 2009 through 2016. If that happens I will say so. It will be objectively true.


What was the rate of return in 2015 and 2016? You go back to 2009 and sure it looks good. Market was DEAD SOLID flat for two straight years before the election. I’ve proven that to you, you just choose not to see it.


Here's the answer, John. And pay attention, because this is the last time I'm explaining this to you:

12/31/14: 17,823.07
12/31/15: 17,425.03
11/04/16: 17,888.28

So, the market had gone up just 7.92% in the 35 MONTHS prior to Trump's election night victory, and had actually gone DOWN in the almost two full years prior to his election. The market was dead. Stagnant. Void of any energy because of the onerous regulations put on it by the Obama presidency. So, how did it respond to a Trump victory?

By 12/31/16 (just 56 days): 19,762.60 (up 10.48% in just 56 days)
By 12/31/17: 24,719.12 (up another 25.08%)

Anyone with an OUNCE of integrity would look at those numbers and KNOW that is the Trump effect. From a 2.5%/year average for 3 full years, to up 35+% in just over 13 months.

But you're right. No effect. None at all.
Last edited by AZGrizFan on Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby Skjellyfetti » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:44 pm

Would you say the "Trump effect" has worn off YTD?
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:27 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote:Would you say the "Trump effect" has worn off YTD?


Actually, I'd say THAT's a Trump effect as well. :nod: (tariffs, etc.). But, after a couple months of struggle, it is up over 2,000 points since its March 23rd low. And a fairly steady 1400 point gain since 6/26. So, not sure if it's "stabilized", but the jitters appear to have somewhat settled.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby JohnStOnge » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:54 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:[Market was DEAD SOLID flat for two straight years before the election. I’ve proven that to you, you just choose not to see it.


No you haven't proven that because it isn't true. If we go with the DJIA the rate of return was -2.23% in 2015 then recovered to 13.415% in 2016. It kind of bottomed out after one decline on February 11, 2016 at 15,660.18. By election day (November 8) 2016 it had increased to 18,332.74. That's a 17% increase. It wasn't flat during the period leading up to the election. What you're saying is just objectively false.

It was bad during 2015. But it was clearly recovering during 2016 well before the election.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:38 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:[Market was DEAD SOLID flat for two straight years before the election. I’ve proven that to you, you just choose not to see it.


No you haven't proven that because it isn't true. If we go with the DJIA the rate of return was -2.23% in 2015 then recovered to 13.415% in 2016. It kind of bottomed out after one decline on February 11, 2016 at 15,660.18. By election day (November 8) 2016 it had increased to 18,332.74. That's a 17% increase. It wasn't flat during the period leading up to the election. What you're saying is just objectively false.

It was bad during 2015. But it was clearly recovering during 2016 well before the election.


John, from the end of 15 to Election Day it went up a TOTAL of about 450 points. That is hardly a 17% increase. For a supposed stats guy, you’re awful dumb.

You can’t claim a recovery from it’s low point. Christ. At year end 2015 and Election Day 2016 there was very little change. Doesn’t **** matter what it did in between.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby JohnStOnge » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:12 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
No you haven't proven that because it isn't true. If we go with the DJIA the rate of return was -2.23% in 2015 then recovered to 13.415% in 2016. It kind of bottomed out after one decline on February 11, 2016 at 15,660.18. By election day (November 8) 2016 it had increased to 18,332.74. That's a 17% increase. It wasn't flat during the period leading up to the election. What you're saying is just objectively false.

It was bad during 2015. But it was clearly recovering during 2016 well before the election.


John, from the end of 15 to Election Day it went up a TOTAL of about 450 points. That is hardly a 17% increase. For a supposed stats guy, you’re awful dumb.

You can’t claim a recovery from it’s low point. Christ. At year end 2015 and Election Day 2016 there was very little change. Doesn’t **** matter what it did in between.


The problem with your approach is that at the end of 2015 the down turn wasn't over yet. Downward movement continued. The chart of December 31, 2015, through the end of February, 2016 looks like this:

Image

You can see February 11 as the bottom. Now, there was a time when things looked relatively flat between then and November 8. But the difference between that February 11 bottom, 15660.18, and November 8, 18332.74, is 17.1 percent (to the nearest 10th).

I think one good way to look at what I am talking about is just to use the default selection (50) for "moving average" on the Yahoo chart we've been looking at. You're looking at things in broad historical perspective and trying to decide when you would say there were significant changes. I think when there is a default there is usually a reason for that. So let's go back and look at October, 2008, when the stock market plunge started through today:

Image

There is just no way anyone who had no dog in the fight, had no idea as to who was elected when, etc., would look at that and say "Oh YEAH, something happened around the end of 2016 and/or the beginning of 2017 to REALLY change things!"

It's just not there.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby JohnStOnge » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:14 pm

BTW I did a quick and dirty statistical analysis. Just did lines of best fit and tested the "significance" of the slope.

First I looked at the slope of the line of best fit drawn through DJIA closes from when I eyeballed the start of an upswing, 2/11/2016, through election day, 11/8/2016. It's positive and "significant."

2/11/2016 to 11/8/2016 is 271 days. So I looked at the slope for the 271 days from 11/8/2016. That's to 8/6/2017. Again, a "significantly" positive slope. No surprise.

Then I went back 271 days from 2/11/2016 to 5/18/2015. And the slope from 5/18/2015 through 2/11/2016 is "significantly" negative.

Bottom line: That's consistent with what I've been saying about the change in the trend being well prior to election day.

The closing DJIA on election day 271 days after 2/11/2016 was 17.1% higher than it was on 2/11/2016. The closing DJIA average 271 days AFTER election day, on 8/6/2017, was 20.5% higher than it was on election day. So I guess you can say that the rate of increase was a little higher during the 271 days after election day than it was during the 271 days prior to election day. It was.

But not by much. To me there is no dramatic, "Ah HAH. Something REALLY changed on election day."
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:23 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
John, from the end of 15 to Election Day it went up a TOTAL of about 450 points. That is hardly a 17% increase. For a supposed stats guy, you’re awful dumb.

You can’t claim a recovery from it’s low point. Christ. At year end 2015 and Election Day 2016 there was very little change. Doesn’t **** matter what it did in between.


The problem with your approach is that at the end of 2015 the down turn wasn't over yet. Downward movement continued. The chart of December 31, 2015, through the end of February, 2016 looks like this:

Image

You can see February 11 as the bottom. Now, there was a time when things looked relatively flat between then and November 8. But the difference between that February 11 bottom, 15660.18, and November 8, 18332.74, is 17.1 percent (to the nearest 10th).

I think one good way to look at what I am talking about is just to use the default selection (50) for "moving average" on the Yahoo chart we've been looking at. You're looking at things in broad historical perspective and trying to decide when you would say there were significant changes. I think when there is a default there is usually a reason for that. So let's go back and look at October, 2008, when the stock market plunge started through today:

Image

There is just no way anyone who had no dog in the fight, had no idea as to who was elected when, etc., would look at that and say "Oh YEAH, something happened around the end of 2016 and/or the beginning of 2017 to REALLY change things!"

It's just not there.


So does Obama also get credit for the 2000+ point drop between the end of 15 and February 11th? :dunce: :dunce:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:56 am

JohnStOnge wrote:BTW I did a quick and dirty statistical analysis. Just did lines of best fit and tested the "significance" of the slope.

First I looked at the slope of the line of best fit drawn through DJIA closes from when I eyeballed the start of an upswing, 2/11/2016, through election day, 11/8/2016. It's positive and "significant."

2/11/2016 to 11/8/2016 is 271 days. So I looked at the slope for the 271 days from 11/8/2016. That's to 8/6/2017. Again, a "significantly" positive slope. No surprise.

Then I went back 271 days from 2/11/2016 to 5/18/2015. And the slope from 5/18/2015 through 2/11/2016 is "significantly" negative.

Bottom line: That's consistent with what I've been saying about the change in the trend being well prior to election day.

The closing DJIA on election day 271 days after 2/11/2016 was 17.1% higher than it was on 2/11/2016. The closing DJIA average 271 days AFTER election day, on 8/6/2017, was 20.5% higher than it was on election day. So I guess you can say that the rate of increase was a little higher during the 271 days after election day than it was during the 271 days prior to election day. It was.

But not by much. To me there is no dramatic, "Ah HAH. Something REALLY changed on election day."


You are the biggest cherry picking motherfucker on the planet. :rofl:

Something big DID change. The last 35 months of Obama's presidency and the market was up 1500 points. TOTAL. IN 35 MONTHS, JOHN. Not 271 days, or 219 days, or wherever Obama's market bottomed out...and just 18 months later, it's up almost 7500 points--and that's counting the drop from the middle of January to today! If THAT doesn't say "a ha" to you and show a significantly different slope over a sustained period, then you're officially beyond help.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby CAA Flagship » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:27 am

JohnStOnge wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:I'm having trouble reading graphs. Can someone tell me if the volume at the bottom was a continuation of the Obama years?

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I can't find it on the legend but if the bars at the bottom are volume then yes that is something. The problem is that it doesn't necessarily correlate to positive movement. Like look at this:

Image

Notice that there was a lot of that volume activity around when the DJIA bottomed out around 2009. And that volume activity was low during 2013 when the percent return on the DJIA was higher (26.5) than it was in 2017 (25.08).

The volume spike after the election is an indication that investors were placing bets on improving economic policies from this administration (improving = upward DJIA trend line in correlation to the high volume). The slow decline in volume, despite the positive DJIA trendline throughout the Obama years shows that there was a lack of confidence that the trend could sustain under current policies. Remember, Obama had wind at his back with QE's, low interest rates, and the bounce off the recession. There has been nothing but headwinds during the Trump years. But investors hoped for positive economic policies and Trump has been delivering.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby 93henfan » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:34 am

I’m going to need to see some analysis by JSO to see if what Flaggy wrote is true.

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:51 pm

93henfan wrote:I’m going to need to see some analysis by JSO to see if what Flaggy wrote is true.


Every.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby kalm » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:26 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
93henfan wrote:I’m going to need to see some analysis by JSO to see if what Flaggy wrote is true.


Every.
Single.
Word.


Probably true for the investment class but not for the working class. You have to continue holding up shiny trinkets to keep them on board. But if you measure the success of America based on only the 10%, it’s peachy.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby AZGrizFan » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:57 pm

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Every.
Single.
Word.


Probably true for the investment class but not for the working class. You have to continue holding up shiny trinkets to keep them on board. But if you measure the success of America based on only the 10%, it’s peachy.


Really? You don’t think any of that volume was 401k investors? :roll:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby kalm » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:23 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Probably true for the investment class but not for the working class. You have to continue holding up shiny trinkets to keep them on board. But if you measure the success of America based on only the 10%, it’s peachy.


Really? You don’t think any of that volume was 401k investors? :roll:


Only 65% have a 401k and how many of them are cashing it on medical bills to avoid bankruptcy ...or trying to support their millennial kids who can’t pay off their $100k art degrees?

:coffee:
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby SDHornet » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:34 pm

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Really? You don’t think any of that volume was 401k investors? :roll:


Only 65% have a 401k and how many of them are cashing it on medical bills to avoid bankruptcy ...or trying to support their millennial kids who can’t pay off their $100k art degrees?

:coffee:

Link?

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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby kalm » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:42 am

SDHornet wrote:
kalm wrote:
Only 65% have a 401k and how many of them are cashing it on medical bills to avoid bankruptcy ...or trying to support their millennial kids who can’t pay off their $100k art degrees?

:coffee:

Link?


And of those only 52% of millennial take advantage of it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... -401k.html
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby CAA Flagship » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:28 am

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Every.
Single.
Word.


Probably true for the investment class but not for the working class. You have to continue holding up shiny trinkets to keep them on board. But if you measure the success of America based on only the 10%, it’s peachy.

The stock market is a lot of things, and it is not a lot of things. The stock market is a byproduct of the overall economy as both a lagging and leading indicator. But a strong market does not benefit ONLY "the 10%". I've said it before that I believe one of the most important issues for this, or any, country is JOBS.

If the economy is strong, the unemployed find jobs. Low wage workers join the lower middle wage earners. Lower middle wage earners join the upper middle wage earners, and so on. Companies expand. Innovation thrives. New companies are born. The market is just a partial measure of that which benefits way more than 10%.

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Re: RE: Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby UNI88 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:28 am

kalm wrote:
SDHornet wrote:Link?


And of those only 52% of millennial take advantage of it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... -401k.html
Even those who don't have access to a 401(k), or, even better, one with an employer match, can and should still begin putting money away for retirement. Both Roth IRAs and traditional IRAs offer tax benefits and should be considered as part of a diversified savings plan.

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Re: RE: Re: The Official

Postby kalm » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:38 am

UNI88 wrote:
kalm wrote:
And of those only 52% of millennial take advantage of it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... -401k.html
Even those who don't have access to a 401(k), or, even better, one with an employer match, can and should still begin putting money away for retirement. Both Roth IRAs and traditional IRAs offer tax benefits and should be considered as part of a diversified savings plan.


Of course they should but the fact is too many are not. They're paying down college loans, supporting adult children and their kids, paying for medical bills, and trying to keep up with the Joneses.

As I've mentioned before, the cost of modern living has shot through the roof while disposable income has not (thanks to the costs of education, insurance, healthcare, etc). When we were little kids (guessing you and I are close in age) our parents weren't paying for cable, wifi, cell phones, Flaggy's 11 TV's in the house, and gaming systems. It was far easier to spend within their means. I'm not justifying living beyond one's means but the other kicker is that with an economy that is 2/3's reliant on consumer spending, we NEED them to spend money on these things.

Every generation expects to do better than their parents. Just like the federal government, it's far easier to kick the can down the road than to tighten the belt now and save.
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Re: The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby CID1990 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:51 am

kalm wrote:
UNI88 wrote:


Of course they should but the fact is too many are not. They're paying down college loans, supporting adult children and their kids, paying for medical bills, and trying to keep up with the Joneses.

As I've mentioned before, the cost of modern living has shot through the roof while disposable income has not (thanks to the costs of education, insurance, healthcare, etc). When we were little kids (guessing you and I are close in age) our parents weren't paying for cable, wifi, cell phones, Flaggy's 11 TV's in the house, and gaming systems. It was far easier to spend within their means. I'm not justifying living beyond one's means but the other kicker is that with an economy that is 2/3's reliant on consumer spending, we NEED them to spend money on these things.

Every generation expects to do better than their parents. Just like the federal government, it's far easier to kick the can down the road than to tighten the belt now and save.


In you first sentence, you left out “making stupid choices” and “buying the latest iPhone”

You sort of danced around it in the next para, but the bottom line is that we are a runaway consumer society and very few people live within their means (which, BTW, is totally do-able)

I don’t do better than my parents. That’s a choice, not some external force keeping me down. I didn’t want to spend my life reaching into people’s mouths or teaching algebra to other people’s brats. But I love what I do and I do it on the cheap. And when it comes time, I’ll have enough for my kids to go to school (I’m pushing trade school.... college is overrated and if I could go back in time I’d go to one of those Yankee maritime schools and study lofting and drafting)

Every one of the industries you mentioned chases our stupid consumerism. Insurance costs chase our desire to live in that gated community. Healthcare costs chase our desire to live forever (MRI machines cost money)... and every doctor wants the 50 foot Hallberg-Rassy instead of the Baba 40.

We can bitch all we want about these “external” forces all we want, but in the end, as Pogo said, “We have seen the enemy and he is us”
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: The Official

Postby UNI88 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:58 am

kalm wrote:
UNI88 wrote:


Of course they should but the fact is too many are not. They're paying down college loans, supporting adult children and their kids, paying for medical bills, and trying to keep up with the Joneses.

As I've mentioned before, the cost of modern living has shot through the roof while disposable income has not (thanks to the costs of education, insurance, healthcare, etc). When we were little kids (guessing you and I are close in age) our parents weren't paying for cable, wifi, cell phones, Flaggy's 11 TV's in the house, and gaming systems. It was far easier to spend within their means. I'm not justifying living beyond one's means but the other kicker is that with an economy that is 2/3's reliant on consumer spending, we NEED them to spend money on these things.

Every generation expects to do better than their parents. Just like the federal government, it's far easier to kick the can down the road than to tighten the belt now and save.
But they're adults choosing to prioritize current wants over future needs. I've been underemployed for four years with no 401k and I've been taking money from savings to contribute to a Roth. In order to make it work we haven't gotten new cars, dropped Comcast TV and stream, do more of the maintenance around the house ourselves, etc. That's what responsible adults do.

Bailing people out isn't the answer. It just creates expectations & dependence. We need to do a better job of educating people.

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Re: The Official

Postby kalm » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:00 am

CID1990 wrote:
kalm wrote:
Of course they should but the fact is too many are not. They're paying down college loans, supporting adult children and their kids, paying for medical bills, and trying to keep up with the Joneses.

As I've mentioned before, the cost of modern living has shot through the roof while disposable income has not (thanks to the costs of education, insurance, healthcare, etc). When we were little kids (guessing you and I are close in age) our parents weren't paying for cable, wifi, cell phones, Flaggy's 11 TV's in the house, and gaming systems. It was far easier to spend within their means. I'm not justifying living beyond one's means but the other kicker is that with an economy that is 2/3's reliant on consumer spending, we NEED them to spend money on these things.

Every generation expects to do better than their parents. Just like the federal government, it's far easier to kick the can down the road than to tighten the belt now and save.


In you first sentence, you left out “making stupid choices” and “buying the latest iPhone”

You sort of danced around it in the next para, but the bottom line is that we are a runaway consumer society and very few people live within their means (which, BTW, is totally do-able)

I don’t do better than my parents. That’s a choice, not some external force keeping me down. I didn’t want to spend my life reaching into people’s mouths or teaching algebra to other people’s brats. But I love what I do and I do it on the cheap. And when it comes time, I’ll have enough for my kids to go to school (I’m pushing trade school.... college is overrated and if I could go back in time I’d go to one of those Yankee maritime schools and study lofting and drafting)

Every one of the industries you mentioned chases our stupid consumerism. Insurance costs chase our desire to live in that gated community. Healthcare costs chase our desire to live forever (MRI machines cost money)... and every doctor wants the 50 foot Hallberg-Rassy instead of the Baba 40.

We can bitch all we want about these “external” forces all we want, but in the end, as Pogo said, “We have seen the enemy and he is us”


I really don't disagree with any of this and I think we're on the same page.

My parents were children during the Great Depression. In 2009, I handed my mom a Time Magazine article on how to survive the Great Recession (cut all unnecessary spending, keep saving, hold on to your current job, look for investment opportunities, recycle, reuse, live a little bit longer with the old things etc). She read it, chuckled, and said, 'I've been doing these things my whole life.'
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: The Official

Postby kalm » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:02 am

UNI88 wrote:
kalm wrote:
Of course they should but the fact is too many are not. They're paying down college loans, supporting adult children and their kids, paying for medical bills, and trying to keep up with the Joneses.

As I've mentioned before, the cost of modern living has shot through the roof while disposable income has not (thanks to the costs of education, insurance, healthcare, etc). When we were little kids (guessing you and I are close in age) our parents weren't paying for cable, wifi, cell phones, Flaggy's 11 TV's in the house, and gaming systems. It was far easier to spend within their means. I'm not justifying living beyond one's means but the other kicker is that with an economy that is 2/3's reliant on consumer spending, we NEED them to spend money on these things.

Every generation expects to do better than their parents. Just like the federal government, it's far easier to kick the can down the road than to tighten the belt now and save.
But they're adults choosing to prioritize current wants over future needs. I've been underemployed for four years with no 401k and I've been taking money from savings to contribute to a Roth. In order to make it work we haven't gotten new cars, dropped Comcast TV and stream, do more of the maintenance around the house ourselves, etc. That's what responsible adults do.

Bailing people out isn't the answer. It just creates expectations & dependence. We need to do a better job of educating people.


Just like with CID, I agree with all of this too. :nod:
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The Official "Making America Great Again" Thread

Postby CID1990 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:28 am

kalm wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
In you first sentence, you left out “making stupid choices” and “buying the latest iPhone”

You sort of danced around it in the next para, but the bottom line is that we are a runaway consumer society and very few people live within their means (which, BTW, is totally do-able)

I don’t do better than my parents. That’s a choice, not some external force keeping me down. I didn’t want to spend my life reaching into people’s mouths or teaching algebra to other people’s brats. But I love what I do and I do it on the cheap. And when it comes time, I’ll have enough for my kids to go to school (I’m pushing trade school.... college is overrated and if I could go back in time I’d go to one of those Yankee maritime schools and study lofting and drafting)

Every one of the industries you mentioned chases our stupid consumerism. Insurance costs chase our desire to live in that gated community. Healthcare costs chase our desire to live forever (MRI machines cost money)... and every doctor wants the 50 foot Hallberg-Rassy instead of the Baba 40.

We can bitch all we want about these “external” forces all we want, but in the end, as Pogo said, “We have seen the enemy and he is us”


I really don't disagree with any of this and I think we're on the same page.

My parents were children during the Great Depression. In 2009, I handed my mom a Time Magazine article on how to survive the Great Recession (cut all unnecessary spending, keep saving, hold on to your current job, look for investment opportunities, recycle, reuse, live a little bit longer with the old things etc). She read it, chuckled, and said, 'I've been doing these things my whole life.'


Believe me, I think most people in this country do t have a CLUE about privation. I know I don’t, I didn’t live through it.

My grandfather was a dentist from the 1920s until the 1960s. He took hogs and cattle as payment for dentures, and that was from the rich farmers. Usually he was “dentist without borders” right in his own home. My dad continued that by being the only dentist from Burlington to Oxford NC who would accept Medicaid. We didn’t suffer, but we weren’t doing vacations in The Hamptons, either. I had just enough clothes, a pair of canvas sneaks, loafers for church, and a pair of boots for slogging after quail and deer. My allowance was 5 bucks a week when I turned 15 and I earned the **** out of it.

My parents lived through rationing and occasional hunger. My mother (whose parents didn’t know much about jimmy hats) had five siblings. Papa was a High-Tider fisherman and Nanny was a teacher. They duct taped shoes together, and the tops of tube socks when the elastic wore out.

I have little sympathy for people these days. Especially seeing how people live in other parts of the world (and they are mostly happy because they live within their means)

My only consolation is that if the **** goes down while I am alive, I know how to grow my food, defend where I grow it, and live simply. Or I can teach young whippersnappers how to do it.
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris


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