Colin Kaepernick

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Chizzang » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:14 pm

CAA Flagship wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
:lol:

I would describe my dissatisfaction with "Black America" as more ambient than avid
It's a long conversation that can be summed up in a few words

Question:
If blacks aren't succeeding in America because of all the disadvantages
Where are they succeeding in this world..?

Answer:
Nowhere...

So there's a planet wide (global) conspiracy against black folks..?

I can't stop this feeling
Deep inside of me......


I debated this point in college in a controlled environment
A staged debate on racism
and won the debate - the only debate I won all quarter

:geek:

admittedly times were different
that was a long time ago and people weren't so sensitive
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby AZGrizFan » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:40 pm

Chizzang wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:I can't stop this feeling
Deep inside of me......


I debated this point in college in a controlled environment
A staged debate on racism
and won the debate - the only debate I won all quarter

:geek:

admittedly times were different
that was a long time ago and people weren't so sensitive


:rofl: Yeah. You couldn’t touch that topic with a 10-foot pole now.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Chizzang » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:25 pm

AZGrizFan wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
I debated this point in college in a controlled environment
A staged debate on racism
and won the debate - the only debate I won all quarter

:geek:

admittedly times were different
that was a long time ago and people weren't so sensitive


:rofl: Yeah. You couldn’t touch that topic with a 10-foot pole now.


I didn't pick it... It was given to me (Imagine that today)

But it had a profound effect on me as I studied my defense
because I slowly realized that I'd lose if I tried to "defend" the position
So I decided to attack my opponents position

Leading with:
Please identify all the countries where black people are culturally integrating and succeeding
or flourishing under their own formal government rule

:geek:

It's quite a conundrum once you lay it out there...
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby CID1990 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:42 pm

Chizzang wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
:rofl: Yeah. You couldn’t touch that topic with a 10-foot pole now.


I didn't pick it... It was given to me (Imagine that today)

But it had a profound effect on me as I studied my defense
because I slowly realized that I'd lose if I tried to "defend" the position
So I decided to attack my opponents position

Leading with:
Please identify all the countries where black people are culturally integrating and succeeding
or flourishing under their own formal government rule

:geek:

It's quite a conundrum once you lay it out there...


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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby CID1990 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:43 pm

Chizzang wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:I can't stop this feeling
Deep inside of me......


I debated this point in college in a controlled environment
A staged debate on racism
and won the debate - the only debate I won all quarter

:geek:

admittedly times were different
that was a long time ago and people weren't so sensitive


BTW...

How do you "win" a debate?
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby CAA Flagship » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:56 am

Chizzang wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:I can't stop this feeling
Deep inside of me......


I debated this point in college in a controlled environment
A staged debate on racism
and won the debate - the only debate I won all quarter

:geek:

admittedly times were different
that was a long time ago and people weren't so sensitive

You made an interesting offensive move. And did something I learned many years ago, which is argue in question form. This puts the opponent in a defensive posture.

The only comeback I would have is, "What's your definition of 'success'?" to thwart the attack and try to find a way out.

So how did the rest of the debate go? Did the opponent have any good points?

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Chizzang » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:43 am

CAA Flagship wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
I debated this point in college in a controlled environment
A staged debate on racism
and won the debate - the only debate I won all quarter

:geek:

admittedly times were different
that was a long time ago and people weren't so sensitive

You made an interesting offensive move. And did something I learned many years ago, which is argue in question form. This puts the opponent in a defensive posture.

The only comeback I would have is, "What's your definition of 'success'?" to thwart the attack and try to find a way out.

So how did the rest of the debate go? Did the opponent have any good points?


I was ready for the question "Define Success"
Success would have to be "better than here" because presently "here" is unacceptable

By present definition
The U.S. would fall below the minimum tolerable solution

and, no i caught them completely off guard
They were only prepared to go on the offensive about how awful America was

They ended up not being able to define "acceptable" "Neutral" and "Best case scenario"

Note:
You win a debate by getting more votes from your classmates than the opponent
each debate is 12 minutes
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Gil Dobie » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:41 am

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby JohnStOnge » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:04 pm

BTW: We all have been watching the culture wars for a while now. We all know that the "side" associated with the NFL players and Nike is ultimately going to win, do we not?
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Chizzang » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:14 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:BTW: We all have been watching the culture wars for a while now. We all know that the "side" associated with the NFL players and Nike is ultimately going to win, do we not?


Actually I have ^ no idea...
But I agree with Kaepernick's right to kneel in protest of whatever he wants
Protesting is about as American as it gets - even protesting irrelevant or bad information

:geek:
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby JohnStOnge » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:22 pm

Chizzang wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:BTW: We all have been watching the culture wars for a while now. We all know that the "side" associated with the NFL players and Nike is ultimately going to win, do we not?


Actually I have ^ no idea...
But I agree with Kaepernick's right to kneel in protest of whatever he wants
Protesting is about as American as it gets - even protesting irrelevant or bad information

:geek:


I think you do have an idea. We all have watched the culture wars. The "side" represented by those "against" the NFL players has been consistently losing. There's no reason to think that things will change.

I'm not talking about elections, BTW. I'm talking about the culture.
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But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Pwns » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:38 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:BTW: We all have been watching the culture wars for a while now. We all know that the "side" associated with the NFL players and Nike is ultimately going to win, do we not?


What does "win" here mean? If you're talking about it being a successful ad campaign, yeah, it's not really that surprising that Nike's "we down wid da struggle yo" campaign is having success.

As far as the political debate, of course they can pretend like black men are more likely to be killed by police because of racial bias, but it won't do anything productive as far as policy. At best they'll do something that wouldn't work even if the problem were real (e.g. "diversity training") and at worst they'll damage the police profession and be like medieval peasants killing snakes to try and stop the plague.

No one wins when you set policy that's based on a myth.
We get the government we deserve. :nod:

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Chizzang » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:54 pm

Pwns wrote:
No one wins when you set policy that's based on a myth.


Agreed,
Now go tell the Christian Right that message please

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby BDKJMU » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:47 pm

Chizzang wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:BTW: We all have been watching the culture wars for a while now. We all know that the "side" associated with the NFL players and Nike is ultimately going to win, do we not?


Actually I have ^ no idea...
But I agree with Kaepernick's right to kneel in protest of whatever he wants
Protesting is about as American as it gets
- even protesting irrelevant or bad information

:geek:

No its not. While at work (insert your job field here) in unform there is no free speech right. You have a right to do what your employer allows you to do (or what has been negotiated through collective bargaining).

When not at work, out of unform, on your own time, different story.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby CID1990 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:49 pm

Chizzang wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:BTW: We all have been watching the culture wars for a while now. We all know that the "side" associated with the NFL players and Nike is ultimately going to win, do we not?


Actually I have ^ no idea...
But I agree with Kaepernick's right to kneel in protest of whatever he wants
Protesting is about as American as it gets - even protesting irrelevant or bad information

:geek:


There is a counterpoint to this - one that Kap and about 50% of my FB friends list don't understand..

You can protest all you want, about anything you want

But you don't control how that protest is interpreted

Kap says it is about cops killing blacks - and for Kap and others, thats what its about

But he and others dont get to dictate what its about to others. People seeing it as an insult to vets, war dead, the flag itself.... thats their prerogative too

effective protests are controversial - otherwise they dont get anybodys attention

if you are going to protest something dont be butthurt when people get mad


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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Ivytalk » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:52 am

CID1990 wrote:
if you are going to protest something dont be butthurt when people get mad


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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Chizzang » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:56 am

Just an FYI for CID and BDKJMU

I'm not confused about the consequences of protesting
at work or downtown or otherwise - all actions have reactions and consequences

But the fact still stands
There's nothing more American than protesting
whenever and wherever you think it will have the most effective response

Kaepernick guessed correctly
He's unemployed because of it but he's also made the most impact
Even if the impact is everybody thinks he's an idiot (See: Trump for impact results)

Next:
measuring the accuracy and credibility of his stance is not relevant
which seems to confuse most Conservatives
if everybody thought there was merit in his claim there would be no need to protest

See how that works BDKJMU
I know you don't
but give it another moment and read it slowly
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby JohnStOnge » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:25 am

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about:

https://nypost.com/2018/06/07/most-vote ... ling-poll/

A solid majority of American voters — with the exception of Republicans — believe that NFL players can take a knee during the National Anthem and still be patriots, a new poll said Thursday.

American voters by 58 percent to 35 percent said the players were not unpatriotic, the Quinnipiac University survey found.


Trump and the "side" he represents have already lost on this with respect to the culture overall. Most people think it's fine for the NFL players to do what they've been doing. From this point continuing to double down is just cementing the stereotype of Conservatives in general and Republicans in particular as being Neanderthals. Reinforcing the popular idea that they are backwards, ignorant, intolerant people.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Chizzang » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:47 pm

JohnStOnge wrote:This is the kind of thing I'm talking about:

https://nypost.com/2018/06/07/most-vote ... ling-poll/

A solid majority of American voters — with the exception of Republicans — believe that NFL players can take a knee during the National Anthem and still be patriots, a new poll said Thursday.

American voters by 58 percent to 35 percent said the players were not unpatriotic, the Quinnipiac University survey found.


Trump and the "side" he represents have already lost on this with respect to the culture overall. Most people think it's fine for the NFL players to do what they've been doing. From this point continuing to double down is just cementing the stereotype of Conservatives in general and Republicans in particular as being Neanderthals. Reinforcing the popular idea that they are backwards, ignorant, intolerant people.


add to that ^ the number of active military and retired military
that think that silently kneeling is NOT being unpatriotic

Including my father who would argue that draft dodging and skirting service
on top of claiming to be smarter than all of our commanding officers and Generals
is considerably LESS patriotic than kneeling in silence

:coffee:
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby CAA Flagship » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:55 pm

Chizzang wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:This is the kind of thing I'm talking about:

https://nypost.com/2018/06/07/most-vote ... ling-poll/



Trump and the "side" he represents have already lost on this with respect to the culture overall. Most people think it's fine for the NFL players to do what they've been doing. From this point continuing to double down is just cementing the stereotype of Conservatives in general and Republicans in particular as being Neanderthals. Reinforcing the popular idea that they are backwards, ignorant, intolerant people.


add to that ^ the number of active military and retired military
that think that silently kneeling is NOT being unpatriotic

Including my father who would argue that draft dodging and skirting service
on top of claiming to be smarter than all of our commanding officers and Generals
is considerably LESS patriotic than kneeling in silence

:coffee:

What do the police say? Aren't they the targets here, or did we forget the purpose of the protest?

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Chizzang » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:09 pm

CAA Flagship wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
add to that ^ the number of active military and retired military
that think that silently kneeling is NOT being unpatriotic

Including my father who would argue that draft dodging and skirting service
on top of claiming to be smarter than all of our commanding officers and Generals
is considerably LESS patriotic than kneeling in silence

:coffee:

What do the police say? Aren't they the targets here, or did we forget the purpose of the protest?


The Police or The Police Union..?
There's a key distinction

:lol:
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby CAA Flagship » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:40 pm

Chizzang wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote:What do the police say? Aren't they the targets here, or did we forget the purpose of the protest?


The Police or The Police Union..?
There's a key distinction

:lol:

Whoever he was protesting against.
I wouldn't ask musicians what they think of the new NFL helmet rule.

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Chizzang » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:11 pm

CAA Flagship wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
The Police or The Police Union..?
There's a key distinction

:lol:

Whoever he was protesting against.
I wouldn't ask musicians what they think of the new NFL helmet rule.


Would you ask the musicians union..?
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby CID1990 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:53 pm

Chizzang wrote:Just an FYI for CID and BDKJMU

I'm not confused about the consequences of protesting
at work or downtown or otherwise - all actions have reactions and consequences

But the fact still stands
There's nothing more American than protesting
whenever and wherever you think it will have the most effective response

Kaepernick guessed correctly
He's unemployed because of it but he's also made the most impact
Even if the impact is everybody thinks he's an idiot (See: Trump for impact results)

Next:
measuring the accuracy and credibility of his stance is not relevant
which seems to confuse most Conservatives
if everybody thought there was merit in his claim there would be no need to protest

See how that works BDKJMU
I know you don't
but give it another moment and read it slowly


I dont know why that's an FYI for me

I could care less about Kap's protest - it doesn't offend me any more than the other 50,000 people in the stadium who pay no attention to the anthem (in a variety of ways)

and I don't think Americans owe vets or cops or anybody else any more respect than they do the average dude

But I do think the reaction to Kap's NFL troubles is not something his defenders should be whining about - he got exactly what he was fishing for

I actually do disagree with the premise that black people are being killed wholesale by police in this country purely as a function of their identity, but that's another thread, and I have more important things to do with my time than trying to change angry minds


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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby AZGrizFan » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:53 am

Chizzang wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:This is the kind of thing I'm talking about:

https://nypost.com/2018/06/07/most-vote ... ling-poll/



Trump and the "side" he represents have already lost on this with respect to the culture overall. Most people think it's fine for the NFL players to do what they've been doing. From this point continuing to double down is just cementing the stereotype of Conservatives in general and Republicans in particular as being Neanderthals. Reinforcing the popular idea that they are backwards, ignorant, intolerant people.


add to that ^ the number of active military and retired military
that think that silently kneeling is NOT being unpatriotic

Including my father who would argue that draft dodging and skirting service
on top of claiming to be smarter than all of our commanding officers and Generals
is considerably LESS patriotic than kneeling in silence

:coffee:


And include me in that group. Kneel away, I don’t give two shits.

Just don’t block the **** freeway I’m trying to get to work on. cocksuckers.
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