Never Been A Bigger Idiot President

[kalm]

At the end of the day, the big banks have a greater share of the market. This was either by design, or they were stupid and lucky enough to benefit. Which one is it? In either case they are not qualified to be in charge of the economy, yet through regulatory and electoral capture, that is EXACTLY what they are.

A moralistic and self regulatory free market which raises all or even most boats is a total myth. Go play monopoly if you don't understand.

[JohnStOnge]

A moralistic and self regulatory free market which raises all or even most boats is a total myth. Go play monopoly if you don't understand.

In Monopoly there is a fixed and finite supply of money as well as of things the money can buy. A real capitalist economy isn't like that. Money is just a medium of exchange. One person ending up with more does not mean everybody else has to end up with less.

There are some fixed and finite commodities. Real estate is an example. But there are also commodities that are not fixed and finite. And money for sure is not.

In fact you can see that just by looking at figures on per capita income among various income groups. We've discussed it before. There is more total money in the US as well as more money per capita than there was 30 years ago in inflation adjusted terms. And, as we've discussed before, the per capita income is higher now in inflation adjusted terms than it was then for every income quintile. It has clearly not been a situation in which some got more while everybody else...or even a substantial proportion of everybody else...got less.

[Baldy]

It's OK, kalm. Whats so funny is Chizz using contradictions, hyperbole, and false narratives to get his "point" across.

You damn right the elite wealthy have never had it better. Look at who they are and whom they support.

Feel free to correct my post...
Of course I am only repeating the information that was given to me / I'm not a Wall Street Insider
But Darrell Issa is one of the owners and chairmen of the company I work for
I look forward to you educating me and contradicting my information

whenever you're ready

Oh and in 2008, when Congress was asked to pass (TARP)
Darrell opposed giving a blank-check bailout to Wall Street – he voted against all bailouts during the financial crisis... (just an FYI) Most of the information I am spewing out ^ up there in that long post came from a Republican not some crazy conspiracy driven Liberal

OK, if you insist.

As StOnge pointed out, you allusion to big nasty evil oil companies willfully contaminating people's tap water and making it catch fire is nothing more than a political hoax. Even the god awful EPA has stated that fracking doesn't contaminate drinking water.

I had to incorporate myself and become an LLC just to get my standard U.S. citizens rights back for gods sake.

Name just one of the standard U.S. citizen rights you lost and had to get back by becoming an LLC...

If we keep making it easier to be poor the wealthy will keep getting more wealthy / thats why I find the whole Anti-poor republican stance so laughable / The elite wealthy never complain about the Govt handing out money and bankrupting itself along the way...

That's why I find your support for a "progressive" like Jill Stein to be laughable. People like her are the largest enablers of the poor to be and remain poor. I'll ask you the same question kalm didn't answer. Who are the elite wealthy and whom do they support?

[Chizzang]

Feel free to correct my post...
Of course I am only repeating the information that was given to me / I'm not a Wall Street Insider
But Darrell Issa is one of the owners and chairmen of the company I work for
I look forward to you educating me and contradicting my information

whenever you're ready

Oh and in 2008, when Congress was asked to pass (TARP)
Darrell opposed giving a blank-check bailout to Wall Street – he voted against all bailouts during the financial crisis... (just an FYI) Most of the information I am spewing out ^ up there in that long post came from a Republican not some crazy conspiracy driven Liberal

OK, if you insist.

As StOnge pointed out, you allusion to big nasty evil oil companies willfully contaminating people's tap water and making it catch fire is nothing more than a political hoax. Even the god awful EPA has stated that fracking doesn't contaminate drinking water.

I had to incorporate myself and become an LLC just to get my standard U.S. citizens rights back for gods sake.

Name just one of the standard U.S. citizen rights you lost and had to get back by becoming an LLC...

If we keep making it easier to be poor the wealthy will keep getting more wealthy / thats why I find the whole Anti-poor republican stance so laughable / The elite wealthy never complain about the Govt handing out money and bankrupting itself along the way...

That's why I find your support for a "progressive" like Jill Stein to be laughable. People like her are the largest enablers of the poor to be and remain poor. I'll ask you the same question kalm didn't answer. Who are the elite wealthy and whom do they support?

Okay your sarcasm meter is broken (a little)
The flaming tap water thing is a running joke to make a point
Yes the EPA is bloated (just like the TSA and every other Gov't agency)
However abolishing it is a dream come true for the Halliburtons and Exxon Mobils of the world
They have proven (over and over) They are devoid of conscience and for profit only companies only

You obviously seemed to "get" the shooting a Ni*ger quip
I noticed that didn't get a comment

LLC is really all about not being accountable
As a citizen you're 100% accountable for your actions (unless otherwise noted* See shooting Ni*gers above)
as an LLC you can do whatever you want until you get caught and then disappear and re-appear as a new LLC

This is a luxury afforded only to corporations / Zero Accountability
(See Bailout 2008)

also I don't have the time to educate you as to who Lewis Powell is (circa 1972)
But suffice to know after that appointee the court began striking down laws that protected living breathing persons rights (citizens rights) in areas including the environment, tobacco, public health, food & drug, financial regulation... etc etc.

U.S. Coal and Mining companies have (see Peabody Energy) had thousands / that's right thousands of safety infractions and knowingly perform in this manner to increase profitability / Union Carbide too / See Bhopal India 15,000 deaths Zero prosecutions... No one is ever actually accountable in a corporation doubly true when you increase the size of the company to include gov't buddy systems

I'm not anti-corporation at all
I just think all citizens of the U.S. need to LLC immediately (regardless) and expose the issue more appropriately / because if you don't know who Lewis Powell is / Nobody does

I don't "support" Jill Stein I voted for her as an Anti-Obama vote
and to annoy my relatives and friends who were chanting "one more term"

And I stand by my comment:
The super wealthy never complain about taxes or the Gov't enabling the poor
It's an appeasement that works out beautifully / as an absolute distraction
O'reilly and Limbaugh clamour away incessantly on this topic sufficiently distracting the point

[Baldy]

Okay your sarcasm meter is broken (a little)
The flaming tap water thing is a running joke to make a point
Yes the EPA is bloated (just like the TSA and every other Gov't agency)
However abolishing it is a dream come true for the Halliburtons and Exxon Mobils of the world
They have proven (over and over) They are devoid of conscience and for profit only companies only

You obviously seemed to "get" the shooting a Ni*ger quip
I noticed that didn't get a comment

LLC is really all about not being accountable
As a citizen you're 100% accountable for your actions (unless otherwise noted* See shooting Ni*gers above)
as an LLC you can do whatever you want until you get caught and then disappear and re-appear as a new LLC

This is a luxury afforded only to corporations / Zero Accountability
(See Bailout 2008)

also I don't have the time to educate you as to who Lewis Powell is (circa 1972)
But suffice to know after that appointee the court began striking down laws that protected living breathing persons rights (citizens rights) in areas including the environment, tobacco, public health, food & drug, financial regulation... etc etc.

U.S. Coal and Mining companies have (see Peabody Energy) had thousands / that's right thousands of safety infractions and knowingly perform in this manner to increase profitability / Union Carbide too / See Bhopal India 15,000 deaths Zero prosecutions... No one is ever actually accountable in a corporation doubly true when you increase the size of the company to include gov't buddy systems

I'm not anti-corporation at all
I just think all citizens of the U.S. need to LLC immediately (regardless) and expose the issue more appropriately / because if you don't know who Lewis Powell is / Nobody does

I don't "support" Jill Stein I voted for her as an Anti-Obama vote
and to annoy my relatives and friends who were chanting "one more term"

And I stand by my comment:
The super wealthy never complain about taxes or the Gov't enabling the poor
It's an appeasement that works out beautifully / as an absolute distraction
O'reilly and Limbaugh clamour away incessantly on this topic sufficiently distracting the point

Duuhhh well it was just sarcasm...
Right....Maybe you should have made that clear two posts ago. Better yet, next time you feel the need to be sarcastic, don't. You're not very good at it.

Never said the EPA needs to be abolished, but it has WAY WAY WAY too much arbitrary power. I could litter this thread with dozens and dozens of stories about the EPA quashing the rights of private property owners...ordinary citizens. People just like you and me, but I digress. I'm sure you heard and read those stories too.

I didn't comment on your quip because you are absolutely correct. Countless numbers of black kids are murdered every year and nobody cares, especially the race hustlers like Jackson and Sharpton...Obama too.

I don't have much time either, but now its time for me to educate you on something.
Behind every LLC, there is something called a "responsible party". That is the person or persons who are held responsible or accountable (in whole or in part) for the decisions and/or actions made by that entity. For example, you don't pay your LLC's taxes, you (as a managing member or owner or partner or even as a decision making employee) can and will be held personally responsible for paying those taxes.

Your beef isn't with corporations or the corporate structure, your beef should be (and you did make that point in a round about way) with the people responsible for holding the corporate officers responsible. It is our job as citizens to hold those public figures accountable to do the right thing.

Actually, the super...elite wealthy are usually the first to step up and cry that they aren't paying enough in taxes. John Kerry used to be the first in line to sign his name to any new tax increase that came up in Congress (while his yacht was docked in Rhode Island to escape the docking taxes in Massachusetts) to Warren Buffett who whined about how low his taxes are (while he is in a major lawsuit against the IRS for not paying his taxes) to people like Mark Cuban, Bill Gates, Reed Hastings, John Doerr, etc. all of whom do the best they can to pay as little tax as possible.

I'll ask for the third time. Who are the super elite wealthy and whom do they support?

[Chizzang]

Duuhhh well it was just sarcasm...
Right....Maybe you should have made that clear two posts ago. Better yet, next time you feel the need to be sarcastic, don't. You're not very good at it.

Never said the EPA needs to be abolished, but it has WAY WAY WAY too much arbitrary power. I could litter this thread with dozens and dozens of stories about the EPA quashing the rights of private property owners...ordinary citizens. People just like you and me, but I digress. I'm sure you heard and read those stories too.

I didn't comment on your quip because you are absolutely correct. Countless numbers of black kids are murdered every year and nobody cares, especially the race hustlers like Jackson and Sharpton...Obama too.

I don't have much time either, but now its time for me to educate you on something.
Behind every LLC, there is something called a "responsible party". That is the person or persons who are held responsible or accountable (in whole or in part) for the decisions and/or actions made by that entity. For example, you don't pay your LLC's taxes, you (as a managing member or owner or partner or even as a decision making employee) can and will be held personally responsible for paying those taxes.

Your beef isn't with corporations or the corporate structure, your beef should be (and you did make that point in a round about way) with the people responsible for holding the corporate officers responsible. It is our job as citizens to hold those public figures accountable to do the right thing.

Actually, the super...elite wealthy are usually the first to step up and cry that they aren't paying enough in taxes. John Kerry used to be the first in line to sign his name to any new tax increase that came up in Congress (while his yacht was docked in Rhode Island to escape the docking taxes in Massachusetts) to Warren Buffett who whined about how low his taxes are (while he is in a major lawsuit against the IRS for not paying his taxes) to people like Mark Cuban, Bill Gates, Reed Hastings, John Doerr, etc. all of whom do the best they can to pay as little tax as possible.

I'll ask for the third time. Who are the super elite wealthy and whom do they support?

Sounds like we agree on all sorts of stuff...
Oh and it was CID who said the EPA needs to be abolished - I was half ranting at him (and you)
And I laughed sincerely when you brought up "responsible party" on the LLC... which seems to only be enforced on taxation

But the larger they get the harder it is to find somebody (anybody) accountable
The BP oil rig explosion killed 11 people and injured 17 more
Recently BP pleaded guilty to 11 counts of felony manslaughter, one count of felony obstruction of Congress and a variety of environmental crimes...

Saved only by a scandalously close relationship between oil companies and government regulators
As a result a mockery of justice was delivered by the courts...
And right on queue BP stock went up after the plea deal was announced

Welcome to America

oh and...
The super wealthy are guys just like the ones you mentioned in your post
And they support whoever is in office pretty much regardless of who it is / Gates always voted for whoever the incumbent was... keep 'em close

and they hire tax lawyers to fight their fights
They never complain and they don't actually care

[CID1990]

When I say the EPA needs to be abolished I mean it in terms of that it does more harm than good (like some other Federal agencies) and the cost to benefit ratio does not justify its existence. I have no problem with environmental regulation, but there are better ways to implement and enforce them. The EPA as it exists today is nothing more than a political tool for the executive to end run Congress (not that Congress would do any better).

I much more of an environmentalist than anyone would guess. But the EPA has run amok and in my opinion it is easier to scrap a Federal agency and start over than it is to restructure and redirect.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[kalm]

Okay your sarcasm meter is broken (a little)
The flaming tap water thing is a running joke to make a point
Yes the EPA is bloated (just like the TSA and every other Gov't agency)
However abolishing it is a dream come true for the Halliburtons and Exxon Mobils of the world
They have proven (over and over) They are devoid of conscience and for profit only companies only

You obviously seemed to "get" the shooting a Ni*ger quip
I noticed that didn't get a comment

LLC is really all about not being accountable
As a citizen you're 100% accountable for your actions (unless otherwise noted* See shooting Ni*gers above)
as an LLC you can do whatever you want until you get caught and then disappear and re-appear as a new LLC

This is a luxury afforded only to corporations / Zero Accountability
(See Bailout 2008)

also I don't have the time to educate you as to who Lewis Powell is (circa 1972)
But suffice to know after that appointee the court began striking down laws that protected living breathing persons rights (citizens rights) in areas including the environment, tobacco, public health, food & drug, financial regulation... etc etc.

U.S. Coal and Mining companies have (see Peabody Energy) had thousands / that's right thousands of safety infractions and knowingly perform in this manner to increase profitability / Union Carbide too / See Bhopal India 15,000 deaths Zero prosecutions... No one is ever actually accountable in a corporation doubly true when you increase the size of the company to include gov't buddy systems

I'm not anti-corporation at all
I just think all citizens of the U.S. need to LLC immediately (regardless) and expose the issue more appropriately / because if you don't know who Lewis Powell is / Nobody does

I don't "support" Jill Stein I voted for her as an Anti-Obama vote
and to annoy my relatives and friends who were chanting "one more term"

And I stand by my comment:
The super wealthy never complain about taxes or the Gov't enabling the poor
It's an appeasement that works out beautifully / as an absolute distraction
O'reilly and Limbaugh clamour away incessantly on this topic sufficiently distracting the point

Duuhhh well it was just sarcasm...
Right....Maybe you should have made that clear two posts ago. Better yet, next time you feel the need to be sarcastic, don't. You're not very good at it.

Never said the EPA needs to be abolished, but it has WAY WAY WAY too much arbitrary power. I could litter this thread with dozens and dozens of stories about the EPA quashing the rights of private property owners...ordinary citizens. People just like you and me, but I digress. I'm sure you heard and read those stories too.

I didn't comment on your quip because you are absolutely correct. Countless numbers of black kids are murdered every year and nobody cares, especially the race hustlers like Jackson and Sharpton...Obama too.

I don't have much time either, but now its time for me to educate you on something.
Behind every LLC, there is something called a "responsible party". That is the person or persons who are held responsible or accountable (in whole or in part) for the decisions and/or actions made by that entity. For example, you don't pay your LLC's taxes, you (as a managing member or owner or partner or even as a decision making employee) can and will be held personally responsible for paying those taxes.

Your beef isn't with corporations or the corporate structure, your beef should be (and you did make that point in a round about way) with the people responsible for holding the corporate officers responsible. It is our job as citizens to hold those public figures accountable to do the right thing.

Actually, the super...elite wealthy are usually the first to step up and cry that they aren't paying enough in taxes. John Kerry used to be the first in line to sign his name to any new tax increase that came up in Congress (while his yacht was docked in Rhode Island to escape the docking taxes in Massachusetts) to Warren Buffett who whined about how low his taxes are (while he is in a major lawsuit against the IRS for not paying his taxes) to people like Mark Cuban, Bill Gates, Reed Hastings, John Doerr, etc. all of whom do the best they can to pay as little tax as possible.

I'll ask for the third time. Who are the super elite wealthy and whom do they support?

Are you looking for a $ amount definition? Are you asking whom they support from a political standpoint, financial standpoint?

[kalm]

Okay your sarcasm meter is broken (a little)
The flaming tap water thing is a running joke to make a point
Yes the EPA is bloated (just like the TSA and every other Gov't agency)
However abolishing it is a dream come true for the Halliburtons and Exxon Mobils of the world
They have proven (over and over) They are devoid of conscience and for profit only companies only

You obviously seemed to "get" the shooting a Ni*ger quip
I noticed that didn't get a comment

LLC is really all about not being accountable
As a citizen you're 100% accountable for your actions (unless otherwise noted* See shooting Ni*gers above)
as an LLC you can do whatever you want until you get caught and then disappear and re-appear as a new LLC

This is a luxury afforded only to corporations / Zero Accountability
(See Bailout 2008)

also I don't have the time to educate you as to who Lewis Powell is (circa 1972)
But suffice to know after that appointee the court began striking down laws that protected living breathing persons rights (citizens rights) in areas including the environment, tobacco, public health, food & drug, financial regulation... etc etc.

U.S. Coal and Mining companies have (see Peabody Energy) had thousands / that's right thousands of safety infractions and knowingly perform in this manner to increase profitability / Union Carbide too / See Bhopal India 15,000 deaths Zero prosecutions... No one is ever actually accountable in a corporation doubly true when you increase the size of the company to include gov't buddy systems

I'm not anti-corporation at all
I just think all citizens of the U.S. need to LLC immediately (regardless) and expose the issue more appropriately / because if you don't know who Lewis Powell is / Nobody does

I don't "support" Jill Stein I voted for her as an Anti-Obama vote
and to annoy my relatives and friends who were chanting "one more term"

And I stand by my comment:
The super wealthy never complain about taxes or the Gov't enabling the poor
It's an appeasement that works out beautifully / as an absolute distraction
O'reilly and Limbaugh clamour away incessantly on this topic sufficiently distracting the point

Duuhhh well it was just sarcasm...
Right....Maybe you should have made that clear two posts ago. Better yet, next time you feel the need to be sarcastic, don't. You're not very good at it.

Never said the EPA needs to be abolished, but it has WAY WAY WAY too much arbitrary power. I could litter this thread with dozens and dozens of stories about the EPA quashing the rights of private property owners...ordinary citizens. People just like you and me, but I digress. I'm sure you heard and read those stories too.

I didn't comment on your quip because you are absolutely correct. Countless numbers of black kids are murdered every year and nobody cares, especially the race hustlers like Jackson and Sharpton...Obama too.

I don't have much time either, but now its time for me to educate you on something.
Behind every LLC, there is something called a "responsible party". That is the person or persons who are held responsible or accountable (in whole or in part) for the decisions and/or actions made by that entity. For example, you don't pay your LLC's taxes, you (as a managing member or owner or partner or even as a decision making employee) can and will be held personally responsible for paying those taxes.

Your beef isn't with corporations or the corporate structure, your beef should be (and you did make that point in a round about way) with the people responsible for holding the corporate officers responsible. It is our job as citizens to hold those public figures accountable to do the right thing.

Actually, the super...elite wealthy are usually the first to step up and cry that they aren't paying enough in taxes. John Kerry used to be the first in line to sign his name to any new tax increase that came up in Congress (while his yacht was docked in Rhode Island to escape the docking taxes in Massachusetts) to Warren Buffett who whined about how low his taxes are (while he is in a major lawsuit against the IRS for not paying his taxes) to people like Mark Cuban, Bill Gates, Reed Hastings, John Doerr, etc. all of whom do the best they can to pay as little tax as possible.

I'll ask for the third time. Who are the super elite wealthy and whom do they support?

Are you looking for a $ amount definition? Are you asking whom they support from a political standpoint, financial standpoint?

[kalm]

Okay your sarcasm meter is broken (a little)
The flaming tap water thing is a running joke to make a point
Yes the EPA is bloated (just like the TSA and every other Gov't agency)
However abolishing it is a dream come true for the Halliburtons and Exxon Mobils of the world
They have proven (over and over) They are devoid of conscience and for profit only companies only

You obviously seemed to "get" the shooting a Ni*ger quip
I noticed that didn't get a comment

LLC is really all about not being accountable
As a citizen you're 100% accountable for your actions (unless otherwise noted* See shooting Ni*gers above)
as an LLC you can do whatever you want until you get caught and then disappear and re-appear as a new LLC

This is a luxury afforded only to corporations / Zero Accountability
(See Bailout 2008)

also I don't have the time to educate you as to who Lewis Powell is (circa 1972)
But suffice to know after that appointee the court began striking down laws that protected living breathing persons rights (citizens rights) in areas including the environment, tobacco, public health, food & drug, financial regulation... etc etc.

U.S. Coal and Mining companies have (see Peabody Energy) had thousands / that's right thousands of safety infractions and knowingly perform in this manner to increase profitability / Union Carbide too / See Bhopal India 15,000 deaths Zero prosecutions... No one is ever actually accountable in a corporation doubly true when you increase the size of the company to include gov't buddy systems

I'm not anti-corporation at all
I just think all citizens of the U.S. need to LLC immediately (regardless) and expose the issue more appropriately / because if you don't know who Lewis Powell is / Nobody does

I don't "support" Jill Stein I voted for her as an Anti-Obama vote
and to annoy my relatives and friends who were chanting "one more term"

And I stand by my comment:
The super wealthy never complain about taxes or the Gov't enabling the poor
It's an appeasement that works out beautifully / as an absolute distraction
O'reilly and Limbaugh clamour away incessantly on this topic sufficiently distracting the point

Don't forget the banks. Madoff is in prison, but you can't lock up Chase:

(Good point regarding Powell btw. Similar to the economic crisis you'd almost think this shit is intentional!)

For sheer curiosity's sake, I thought I'd list, in capsule form, some of the capers Chase has been caught up in in recent years:

• They were fined $153 million for the infamous "Magnetar" fund case, another scam in which a bank allowed a hedge fund to create a "born-to-lose" mortgage portfolio to bet against. Very similar to the Abacus case that's at the heart of the ongoing "Fabulous Fab" trial;

• Chase paid $228 million for its role in the egregious municipal bond bid-rigging case we wrote about in Rolling Stone in 2011;

• Chase paid $297 million to the SEC last November for fraud involving mortgage-backed securities;

• Chase paid $75 million in cash and generously agreed to forego $647 million in fines in the Jefferson County, Alabama mess, in which a small-town pol was bribed into green-lighting a series of deadly swap deals;

• In two separate orders this spring, Chase was reprimanded by the OCC and the Fed for money-laundering behaviors similar to the infamous HSBC case, and also for regulatory failures and fraud in the London Whale episode. There was a separate FBI investigation into the London Whale probe in which they allegedly lied to customers and investors about the loss;

• They're under investigation for allegedly failing to disclose Bernie Madoff's trading activities to authorities;

• They were one of 13 banks asked to pay up in this year's $9.3 billion robosigning settlement;

• They were one of four banks last year to settle for a total of $394 million with the OCC for improper mortgage servicing practices;

• They were ordered by the CFTC to pay $20 million last year for improper segregation of customer funds (this was part of the Lehman investigation). The CFTC also fined Chase $600,000 last year for violating position limits in the cotton markets;

• Last year, Chase paid a $45 million settlement to the federal government for improperly racking up fees for veterans in mortgage refinancings. Hey, if you're going to steal from everyone, you can't leave out those veterans overseas!

• In 2010, Chase paid $25 million to the state of Florida for selling unregistered bonds to a state-run municipal money-market fund;

• The bank last year was convicted in Europe along with several other banks for fraudulent sales of derivatives to the city of Milan. A total of about $120 million was seized from Chase and three other banks.

There have been so many settlements with so many agencies around the world (I'm in a hurry and can't get to Chase's messes in Britain, Japan and elsewhere) that they're almost impossible to count. Some papers are reporting that Chase is being investigated by as many as eight different agencies in the U.S. alone.

There are some other civil actions left out, too, like the $110 million class-action settlement for improper charging of overdraft fees, or their part in the gigantic $6 billion settlement completed last year involving Visa, MasterCard and other credit card providers for manipulating card service rates. And states like California have only just begun crawling up Chase's backside for its role in the lunatic filing of erroneous credit card collection lawsuits, a scam outed by whistleblower Linda Almonte.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/bl ... z2a4DEJVtL" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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[Chizzang]

Kalm I've said it so many times on this forum they think I'm just trying to piss of AZ
but ti's true

Our Banking and Financial Systems
(that have a huge hand in running this country)
are run by common criminals, no different than the guys that rob a 7/11 store
They simply rob and steal and lie and cheat above the law but they are just common criminals

Why don't Rush and O'reilly banter on about this..?

[Baldy]

Sounds like we agree on all sorts of stuff...
Oh and it was CID who said the EPA needs to be abolished - I was half ranting at him (and you)
And I laughed sincerely when you brought up "responsible party" on the LLC... which seems to only be enforced on taxation

But the larger they get the harder it is to find somebody (anybody) accountable
The BP oil rig explosion killed 11 people and injured 17 more
Recently BP pleaded guilty to 11 counts of felony manslaughter, one count of felony obstruction of Congress and a variety of environmental crimes...

Saved only by a scandalously close relationship between oil companies and government regulators
As a result a mockery of justice was delivered by the courts...
And right on queue BP stock went up after the plea deal was announced

Welcome to America

oh and...
The super wealthy are guys just like the ones you mentioned in your post
And they support whoever is in office pretty much regardless of who it is / Gates always voted for whoever the incumbent was... keep 'em close

and they hire tax lawyers to fight their fights
They never complain and they don't actually care

We do agree on quite a bit...and that takes some of the fun out of it.

There are far too many corporations who are bad actors, but it's also human nature. People will try their best to get away with as much as possible. Kinda like children. The type you see in restaurants and movie theaters. Loud obnoxious running all over the place, etc. You want to kick the little fuckers in the skull, but in reality, it's not all their fault. The parents deserve the boot upside the head for not disciplining and keeping the little shits under control.

Another way to look at it....corporations and the government are in bed together, no doubt. There is also no doubt as to who is the one on top. The one with the guns. Corporations can only get away with whatever the government allows to let them get away with.

[Chizzang]

Sounds like we agree on all sorts of stuff...
Oh and it was CID who said the EPA needs to be abolished - I was half ranting at him (and you)
And I laughed sincerely when you brought up "responsible party" on the LLC... which seems to only be enforced on taxation

But the larger they get the harder it is to find somebody (anybody) accountable
The BP oil rig explosion killed 11 people and injured 17 more
Recently BP pleaded guilty to 11 counts of felony manslaughter, one count of felony obstruction of Congress and a variety of environmental crimes...

Saved only by a scandalously close relationship between oil companies and government regulators
As a result a mockery of justice was delivered by the courts...
And right on queue BP stock went up after the plea deal was announced

Welcome to America

oh and...
The super wealthy are guys just like the ones you mentioned in your post
And they support whoever is in office pretty much regardless of who it is / Gates always voted for whoever the incumbent was... keep 'em close

and they hire tax lawyers to fight their fights
They never complain and they don't actually care

We do agree on quite a bit...and that takes some of the fun out of it.

There are far too many corporations who are bad actors, but it's also human nature. People will try their best to get away with as much as possible. Kinda like children. The type you see in restaurants and movie theaters. Loud obnoxious running all over the place, etc. You want to kick the little fuckers in the skull, but in reality, it's not all their fault. The parents deserve the boot upside the head for not disciplining and keeping the little shits under control.

Another way to look at it....corporations and the government are in bed together, no doubt. There is also no doubt as to who is the one on top. The one with the guns. Corporations can only get away with whatever the government allows to let them get away with.

I'm confident we'll find plenty to argue about...

[Chizzang]

Sounds like we agree on all sorts of stuff...
Oh and it was CID who said the EPA needs to be abolished - I was half ranting at him (and you)
And I laughed sincerely when you brought up "responsible party" on the LLC... which seems to only be enforced on taxation

But the larger they get the harder it is to find somebody (anybody) accountable
The BP oil rig explosion killed 11 people and injured 17 more
Recently BP pleaded guilty to 11 counts of felony manslaughter, one count of felony obstruction of Congress and a variety of environmental crimes...

Saved only by a scandalously close relationship between oil companies and government regulators
As a result a mockery of justice was delivered by the courts...
And right on queue BP stock went up after the plea deal was announced

Welcome to America

oh and...
The super wealthy are guys just like the ones you mentioned in your post
And they support whoever is in office pretty much regardless of who it is / Gates always voted for whoever the incumbent was... keep 'em close

and they hire tax lawyers to fight their fights
They never complain and they don't actually care

We do agree on quite a bit...and that takes some of the fun out of it.

There are far too many corporations who are bad actors, but it's also human nature. People will try their best to get away with as much as possible. Kinda like children. The type you see in restaurants and movie theaters. Loud obnoxious running all over the place, etc. You want to kick the little fuckers in the skull, but in reality, it's not all their fault. The parents deserve the boot upside the head for not disciplining and keeping the little shits under control.

Another way to look at it....corporations and the government are in bed together, no doubt. There is also no doubt as to who is the one on top. The one with the guns. Corporations can only get away with whatever the government allows to let them get away with.

I'm confident we'll find plenty to argue about...

[kalm]

Sounds like we agree on all sorts of stuff...
Oh and it was CID who said the EPA needs to be abolished - I was half ranting at him (and you)
And I laughed sincerely when you brought up "responsible party" on the LLC... which seems to only be enforced on taxation

But the larger they get the harder it is to find somebody (anybody) accountable
The BP oil rig explosion killed 11 people and injured 17 more
Recently BP pleaded guilty to 11 counts of felony manslaughter, one count of felony obstruction of Congress and a variety of environmental crimes...

Saved only by a scandalously close relationship between oil companies and government regulators
As a result a mockery of justice was delivered by the courts...
And right on queue BP stock went up after the plea deal was announced

Welcome to America

oh and...
The super wealthy are guys just like the ones you mentioned in your post
And they support whoever is in office pretty much regardless of who it is / Gates always voted for whoever the incumbent was... keep 'em close

and they hire tax lawyers to fight their fights
They never complain and they don't actually care

We do agree on quite a bit...and that takes some of the fun out of it.

There are far too many corporations who are bad actors, but it's also human nature. People will try their best to get away with as much as possible. Kinda like children. The type you see in restaurants and movie theaters. Loud obnoxious running all over the place, etc. You want to kick the little fuckers in the skull, but in reality, it's not all their fault. The parents deserve the boot upside the head for not disciplining and keeping the little shits under control.

Another way to look at it....corporations and the government are in bed together, no doubt. There is also no doubt as to who is the one on top. The one with the guns. Corporations can only get away with whatever the government allows to let them get away with.

Guns can be bought. I look at it as more a merger...a kinder, gentler, fascism with better marketing than Mussolini had.

[kalm]

Sounds like we agree on all sorts of stuff...
Oh and it was CID who said the EPA needs to be abolished - I was half ranting at him (and you)
And I laughed sincerely when you brought up "responsible party" on the LLC... which seems to only be enforced on taxation

But the larger they get the harder it is to find somebody (anybody) accountable
The BP oil rig explosion killed 11 people and injured 17 more
Recently BP pleaded guilty to 11 counts of felony manslaughter, one count of felony obstruction of Congress and a variety of environmental crimes...

Saved only by a scandalously close relationship between oil companies and government regulators
As a result a mockery of justice was delivered by the courts...
And right on queue BP stock went up after the plea deal was announced

Welcome to America

oh and...
The super wealthy are guys just like the ones you mentioned in your post
And they support whoever is in office pretty much regardless of who it is / Gates always voted for whoever the incumbent was... keep 'em close

and they hire tax lawyers to fight their fights
They never complain and they don't actually care

We do agree on quite a bit...and that takes some of the fun out of it.

There are far too many corporations who are bad actors, but it's also human nature. People will try their best to get away with as much as possible. Kinda like children. The type you see in restaurants and movie theaters. Loud obnoxious running all over the place, etc. You want to kick the little fuckers in the skull, but in reality, it's not all their fault. The parents deserve the boot upside the head for not disciplining and keeping the little shits under control.

Another way to look at it....corporations and the government are in bed together, no doubt. There is also no doubt as to who is the one on top. The one with the guns. Corporations can only get away with whatever the government allows to let them get away with.

Guns can be bought. I look at it as more a merger...a kinder, gentler, fascism with better marketing than Mussolini had.

[kalm]

Sounds like we agree on all sorts of stuff...
Oh and it was CID who said the EPA needs to be abolished - I was half ranting at him (and you)
And I laughed sincerely when you brought up "responsible party" on the LLC... which seems to only be enforced on taxation

But the larger they get the harder it is to find somebody (anybody) accountable
The BP oil rig explosion killed 11 people and injured 17 more
Recently BP pleaded guilty to 11 counts of felony manslaughter, one count of felony obstruction of Congress and a variety of environmental crimes...

Saved only by a scandalously close relationship between oil companies and government regulators
As a result a mockery of justice was delivered by the courts...
And right on queue BP stock went up after the plea deal was announced

Welcome to America

oh and...
The super wealthy are guys just like the ones you mentioned in your post
And they support whoever is in office pretty much regardless of who it is / Gates always voted for whoever the incumbent was... keep 'em close

and they hire tax lawyers to fight their fights
They never complain and they don't actually care

We do agree on quite a bit...and that takes some of the fun out of it.

There are far too many corporations who are bad actors, but it's also human nature. People will try their best to get away with as much as possible. Kinda like children. The type you see in restaurants and movie theaters. Loud obnoxious running all over the place, etc. You want to kick the little fuckers in the skull, but in reality, it's not all their fault. The parents deserve the boot upside the head for not disciplining and keeping the little shits under control.

Another way to look at it....corporations and the government are in bed together, no doubt. There is also no doubt as to who is the one on top. The one with the guns. Corporations can only get away with whatever the government allows to let them get away with.

Guns can be bought. I look at it as more a merger...a kinder, gentler, fascism with better marketing than Mussolini had.

[kalm]

Kalm I've said it so many times on this forum they think I'm just trying to piss of AZ
but ti's true

Our Banking and Financial Systems
(that have a huge hand in running this country)
are run by common criminals, no different than the guys that rob a 7/11 store
They simply rob and steal and lie and cheat above the law but they are just common criminals

Why don't Rush and O'reilly banter on about this..?

Further evidence:

A Shuffle of Aluminum, but to Banks, Pure Gold

Because Metro International charges rent each day for the stored metal, the long queues caused by shifting aluminum among its facilities means larger profits for Goldman. And because storage cost is a major component of the “premium” added to the price of all aluminum sold on the spot market, the delays mean higher prices for nearly everyone, even though most of the metal never passes through one of Goldman’s warehouses.

Aluminum industry analysts say that the lengthy delays at Metro International since Goldman took over are a major reason the premium on all aluminum sold in the spot market has doubled since 2010. The result is an additional cost of about $2 for the 35 pounds of aluminum used to manufacture 1,000 beverage cans, investment analysts say, and about $12 for the 200 pounds of aluminum in the average American-made car.

“It’s a totally artificial cost,” said one of them, Jorge Vazquez, managing director at Harbor Aluminum Intelligence, a commodities consulting firm. “It’s a drag on the economy. Everyone pays for it.”

Metro officials have said they are simply reacting to market forces, and on the company Web site describe their role as “bringing together metal producers, traders and end users,” and helping the exchange “create and maintain stability.” ...

According to public documents in an application filed by JPMorgan Chase, the Fed said such arrangements would be approved only if they posed no risk to the banking system and could “reasonably be expected to produce benefits to the public, such as greater convenience, increased competition, or gains in efficiency, that outweigh possible adverse effects, such as undue concentration of resources, decreased or unfair competition, conflicts of interests, or unsound banking practices.”

By controlling warehouses, pipelines and ports, banks gain valuable market intelligence, investment analysts say. That, in turn, can give them an edge when trading commodities. In the stock market, such an arrangement might be seen as a conflict of interest — or even insider trading. But in the commodities market, it is perfectly legal.

“Information is worth money in the trading world and in commodities, the only way you get it is by being in the physical market,” said Jason Schenker, president and chief economist at Prestige Economics in Austin, Tex. “So financial institutions that engage in commodities trading have a huge advantage because their ownership of physical assets gives them insight in physical flows of commodities.”

Some investors and analysts say that the banks have helped consumers by spurring investment and making markets more efficient. But even banks have, at times, acknowledged that Wall Street’s activities in the commodities market during the last decade have contributed to some price increases.

In 2011, for instance, an internal Goldman memo suggested that speculation by investors accounted for about a third of the price of a barrel of oil. A commissioner at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the federal regulator, subsequently used that estimate to calculate that speculation added about $10 per fill-up for the average American driver. Other experts have put the total, combined cost at $200 billion a year.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/busin ... d=all&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Where are all the corporatist, de-regulatory, 'they're not breaking any laws', Citizens United apologists?