The Evolution Fail/Religion Hijack Thread

[Ibanez]

Look at it via the covenants with God. That should help you understand why old laws don't apply.

Interesting Christian point, however, if you really study the book of Deuteronomy you will find that what ever you believe in the NT absolutely MUST not deviate from the OT.
If you study it as a person who wants the truth, not as a Christisn who wants to hijack someone else's faith system, you will understand far more about your faith.

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I think you need to go back and do some more research. I'm not trying to "hijack" your faith...I don't care really. But you have a gross misunderstanding on the history of the religions and that's just as dangerous.

[CID1990]

I love how these threads always devolve into a debate over the One True Bearded Man in the Sky

[Chizzang]

I love how these threads always devolve into a debate over the One True Bearded Man in the Sky

This is why humanity is doomed...
A bunch of iron age goat herders conjure up some laughable stories
and now everybody has to die fighting for the next multiple thousands of years
Because modern man can't figure out how to pull his own head out of his ass

and the only one of them worth a damn back then (the carpenter)
said the least and made the most sense is being utterly ignored
and mostly written over by his completely pathologically insane followers



so here we are...

[Ibanez]

I love how these threads always devolve into a debate over the One True Bearded Man in the Sky

If you're going to believe...at least have your facts and church history straight.

[CID1990]

I love how these threads always devolve into a debate over the One True Bearded Man in the Sky

If you're going to believe...at least have your facts and church history straight.

If one believes

Then I don’t think facts are high up in one’s priority list

[Ibanez]

If you're going to believe...at least have your facts and church history straight.

If one believes

Then I don’t think facts are high up in one’s priority list

Touche

[css75]

Would you mind explaining why or send me a link with your line of thinking?

Because for me, a new covenant means just that. The old requirements no longer need to be met.

But what about the New New Testament
The Book of Mormon..?

Isn't that the most up-to-date direct communication with Jesus..?

The Book of Mormon was an excellent work of fiction made up by Joseph Smith. It has more holes in it than a target at a rifle range.
Smith was probably the greatest con artist in US history.

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[kalm]

I love how these threads always devolve into a debate over the One True Bearded Man in the Sky

This is why humanity is doomed...
A bunch of iron age goat herders conjure up some laughable stories
and now everybody has to die fighting for the next multiple thousands of years
Because modern man can't figure out how to pull his own head out of his ass

and the only one of them worth a damn back then (the carpenter)
said the least and made the most sense is being utterly ignored
and mostly written over by his completely pathologically insane followers



so here we are...

Wait, so you’re saying the stories in the Bible would be a tougher sell if they were released today?

[Chizzang]

This is why humanity is doomed...
A bunch of iron age goat herders conjure up some laughable stories
and now everybody has to die fighting for the next multiple thousands of years
Because modern man can't figure out how to pull his own head out of his ass

and the only one of them worth a damn back then (the carpenter)
said the least and made the most sense is being utterly ignored
and mostly written over by his completely pathologically insane followers



so here we are...

Wait, so you’re saying the stories in the Bible would be a tougher sell if they were released today?

God has become suspiciously less helpful of late...
and interesting to note - when thousands died mysteriously back then - it was Gods doing
Today 25,000 children will die (approximately) but God is somehow not responsible for that
Talk about cherry picking evidence...

[Ibanez]

But what about the New New Testament
The Book of Mormon..?

Isn't that the most up-to-date direct communication with Jesus..?

The Book of Mormon was an excellent work of fiction made up by Joseph Smith. It has more holes in it than a target at a rifle range.
Smith was probably the greatest con artist in US history.

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He's surpassed by Trump and Clinton.

[SeattleGriz]

I love how these threads always devolve into a debate over the One True Bearded Man in the Sky

Best thread all week!

[Bisonfanatical]

For the God of the Israelites to make a new covenant with you christians, He had to have made an old covenant with you. I have never found this in the OT ... lol

If you were a decedent of the ones who left with Moses from Egypt, who made the covenant with their God who called himself Yehovah, then I stand corrected, however, If you family tree is NOT of the ORIGINAL Israelite family .... perhaps you worship what you do not understand?

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Why does God, who is going into a new covenant with a new group, need an old covenant with that same group He has never been in a covenant with before?

That seems impossible.

I obviously missed your point!

You err my friend because you do not know scripture.

In Jer 31:31the God of the Israelites makes a prophetic statement that in the future He will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

In Heb 8:8 this same OT quote is used again, House of Israel and the House of Judah.
Heb 12:24 spoke of the Messiah Yeshua being the mediator of this new covenant in verse 8.

Once again I say, rejoice in your Israelite heritage.

?

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[SeattleGriz]

Why does God, who is going into a new covenant with a new group, need an old covenant with that same group He has never been in a covenant with before?

That seems impossible.

I obviously missed your point!

You err my friend because you do not know scripture.

In Jer 31:31the God of the Israelites makes a prophetic statement that in the future He will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah.

In Heb 8:8 this same OT quote is used again, House of Israel and the House of Judah.
Heb 12:24 spoke of the Messiah Yeshua being the mediator of this new covenant in verse 8.

Once again I say, rejoice in your Israelite heritage.

?

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Thanks for the quotes, I'll have to look further into this.

[Bisonfanatical]

Unless you are an Israelite, your ancestors most certainly did not live under the 5 books of moses, not one of them, or mine, or an other non-Jewish person ... pretty straight forward.

Christians worship a god of the Israelites that they never knew, and don't want to understand. What they/we really worship is the 3 headed god of Constantine's Roman Universal Church. The Jesus God, even thought that name is only 500 years old or so. ..

The Sabbath is and always was Saturday, the day of the God who declared his name as Yehovah.
Sunday is some christian "lords day", the lord of the imagination perhaps. It is the first day of the week, not the 7th. It always has been and always will be.

The Christian bible is both the old testament, when it is useful, and the new testament in all of it manipulated scriptures.
The Israelite scriptures was only the old testament, which is called the Tanakh by them.

Don't ever think that the Messiah EVER quoted from the NT my friend because it never happened.

The God of Abraham never made a covenant with us, unless you have a chapter and verse you would like to share with the class?

P.S. the God of Abraham is only understood by the people who are declared his people in the OT, by Him.

Israelites, Christians, and Muslims most certainly do not worship the same gods, look at their belief systems.

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Wow..there's so much wrong in here. Just so much. Jesus isn't a God. It's obvious you don't understand the Trinity (which isn't surprising, it's difficult to grasp.) Mohammad isn't a God. I've said it 3 times b/c it's true: Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God - The God of Abraham. Their belief systems may be different, but that doesn't negate the fact that they all stem from the same belief system. You are forgetting where Islam came from. You are ignoring or not knowing the connection between Abraham and Islam. The connection between Abraham and Muhammad. Muhammad, as he claims, was sent to CONFIRM the teachings of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and other prophets. The angel Gabriel spoke to him (Yes, the same Gabriel from the OT and NT)

I won't continue b/c there is just so much wrong information here and I'm going to take the small leap and assume that nothing I could say, or prove to you, will change your beliefs. You really need to educate yourself on the Abrahamic religions. Research them OUTSIDE of whatever religion you practice.


What "religion" do you belong to? Because you have a gross misunderstanding of Judaism and Christianity.

First of my friend ... christians ... not I ... claim that the Trinity is "3 as 1", but the scripture show 3 as 3.

Christians claim God the Father, god the son, god the spirit ... not I.
Scripture shows it as ... God the Father, God's son, Gods spirit.

Words have meaning, and there is a difference.

Just as catholic faith claims Mary as the "mother of God", but in all actuality she is recorded in scripture as the mother of God's son.

I agree that Jesus isn't god, I stated that to a pastor which enraged him so much that he went to his room .... wow! And I have NOT mentioned mugammed in these posts.

I don't care which dots you attempt to connect to show 3 devout faiths as being the same ... but compare the bibles, beliefs, and ways of life of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims. ... you think that they parallel each other? They are rushing to embrace each other?

Hahaha .... that is rich ... they WILL kill each other at the drop off a hat.

Jews don't think the Messiah has come ... Christians, who have paganized the religion, think he has.....
Muslims could care less because the name of importance is muhammed.

PS
Muslims worship Allah
Christians worship "the lord"
Hebrews worship YHVH

And you can believe these are the same entity if you wish, to each his own.

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[Bisonfanatical]

Interesting Christian point, however, if you really study the book of Deuteronomy you will find that what ever you believe in the NT absolutely MUST not deviate from the OT.
If you study it as a person who wants the truth, not as a Christisn who wants to hijack someone else's faith system, you will understand far more about your faith.

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I think you need to go back and do some more research. I'm not trying to "hijack" your faith...I don't care really. But you have a gross misunderstanding on the history of the religions and that's just as dangerous.

You believe what you were told in your churches just like the rest of us.
Serious research will show you the errors of your ways.

Do you think the New Testament is the unaltered word of God?

Do you think Jesus was the name above all names?

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[Ibanez]

Wow..there's so much wrong in here. Just so much. Jesus isn't a God. It's obvious you don't understand the Trinity (which isn't surprising, it's difficult to grasp.) Mohammad isn't a God. I've said it 3 times b/c it's true: Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God - The God of Abraham. Their belief systems may be different, but that doesn't negate the fact that they all stem from the same belief system. You are forgetting where Islam came from. You are ignoring or not knowing the connection between Abraham and Islam. The connection between Abraham and Muhammad. Muhammad, as he claims, was sent to CONFIRM the teachings of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and other prophets. The angel Gabriel spoke to him (Yes, the same Gabriel from the OT and NT)

I won't continue b/c there is just so much wrong information here and I'm going to take the small leap and assume that nothing I could say, or prove to you, will change your beliefs. You really need to educate yourself on the Abrahamic religions. Research them OUTSIDE of whatever religion you practice.


What "religion" do you belong to? Because you have a gross misunderstanding of Judaism and Christianity.

First of my friend ... christians ... not I ... claim that the Trinity is "3 as 1", but the scripture show 3 as 3.

Christians claim God the Father, god the son, god the spirit ... not I.
Scripture shows it as ... God the Father, God's son, Gods spirit.

Words have meaning, and there is a difference.

Just as catholic faith claims Mary as the "mother of God", but in all actuality she is recorded in scripture as the mother of God's son.

I agree that Jesus isn't god, I stated that to a pastor which enraged him so much that he went to his room .... wow! And I have NOT mentioned mugammed in these posts.

I don't care which dots you attempt to connect to show 3 devout faiths as being the same ... but compare the bibles, beliefs, and ways of life of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims. ... you think that they parallel each other? They are rushing to embrace each other?

Hahaha .... that is rich ... they WILL kill each other at the drop off a hat.

Jews don't think the Messiah has come ... Christians, who have paganized the religion, think he has.....
Muslims could care less because the name of importance is muhammed.

PS
Muslims worship Allah
Christians worship "the lord"
Hebrews worship YHVH

And you can believe these are the same entity if you wish, to eaves his own.

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You've still ignored the history of these religions and how they are related. Google "Abrahamic religions".

Re the Trinity:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.?

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." - 1 John 5:7?

Maybe "I and my Father are one." - John 10:30. That's more God of an argument for the Trinity


There's way too much there to digest and respond to at 4:16pm on a Friday. Your understanding appears to be skewed. Y


ou still haven't answered my question - which religion do you belong to? I'm sure that will explain your line of thinking. You certainly don't think or respond like any Catholic, Baptist, Episcopalian, Lutheran or Jew that I know.



Yeah, I suspect the difference in interpretation is my Catholicism and whatever Protestant church you belong to.



PS, Do you know who Ishmael is? Are you aware of his impact on religion?

[Ibanez]

I think you need to go back and do some more research. I'm not trying to "hijack" your faith...I don't care really. But you have a gross misunderstanding on the history of the religions and that's just as dangerous.

You believe what you were told in your churches just like the rest of us.
Serious research will show you the errors of your ways.

Do you think the New Testament is the unaltered word of God?

Do you think Jesus was the name above all names?

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Nope. I don't believe in any of that. I'm just a guy that grew up a devout Catholic (almost went into the priesthood to be honest), graduated from the Catholic school system, studied enough religion and philosophy in college to realize that it's all made up and we don't know anything.

[Chizzang]

This bullsh!t ^ is why Atheism is growing...
(and I'm not really an atheist but now I'm considering it more and more)

[Bisonfanatical]

You believe what you were told in your churches just like the rest of us.
Serious research will show you the errors of your ways.

Do you think the New Testament is the unaltered word of God?

Do you think Jesus was the name above all names?

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Nope. I don't believe in any of that. I'm just a guy that grew up a devout Catholic (almost went into the priesthood to be honest), graduated from the Catholic school system, studied enough religion and philosophy in college to realize that it's all made up and we don't know anything.

Funny that you continually attack at me as if you are a professing Christian?

I also was raised a Christian, born again baptised in the name of Jesus. .. that was great ... until I found out that the name above all names started as Yeshua 2000 years ago and thru the ongoing evolution of the Christian faith, that also was changed about 500 years ago to Jesus?

That is a deal breaker

My beliefs now are my own and I will keep them as my own?

We are exchanging views about what the bible says vs what we want it to say .. lol

I acknowledge the biblical connection between Ishmael and Jacob. ... but Muhammed is another story entirely, for he is not Ishmael.

My point is that even though all 3 have ties of sorts, or so they believe, to the God of the Israelites .... if you examine their belief system and their bibles and their need to dominate each other (world conquest) thru killing if necessary, they are light years from each other. Except for their arrogance ... lol

And to clear the record ... christians are not trying to hijack my religion, I am no more an Israelite than anyone else, just sharing what the bible says, not what we want it to say.

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[SeattleGriz]

This bullsh!t ^ is why Atheism is growing...
(and I'm not really an atheist but now I'm considering it more and more)

Lol.

Christianity has done more for humans and you continue to reap those benefits daily.

Atheists had to cancel their national convention a couple of years ago due to lack of support...yeah, it's growing by leaps and bounds with dedicated atheists like you.

[Chizzang]

This bullsh!t ^ is why Atheism is growing...
(and I'm not really an atheist but now I'm considering it more and more)

Lol.

Christianity has done more for humans and you continue to reap those benefits daily.

Atheists had to cancel their national convention a couple of years ago due to lack of support...yeah, it's growing by leaps and bounds with dedicated atheists like you.

Christianity is like anything else that involves humans
Some good things and some bad things

I have no idea about atheism conventions
and I'm suspicious one exists and it makes sense nobody would show up.. Why..?
Like going to a "we don't collect Stamps" convention

https://bigthink.com/philip-perry/is-at ... in-america

"No religious affiliation or “nones,” are the second largest faith category in North America today. They’ve been growing steadily for decades now. About 25% of the entire US population are among the unaffiliated. While in the past several years, the number of atheists has doubled. Most are white, male, and highly educated. 56% are politically liberal. People of color, women, and the less educated tend to be more religious..."

[CID1990]

Lol.

Christianity has done more for humans and you continue to reap those benefits daily.

Atheists had to cancel their national convention a couple of years ago due to lack of support...yeah, it's growing by leaps and bounds with dedicated atheists like you.

People of color, women, and the less educated tend to be more religious..."

Damn that's a risky sentence

Hope that media outlet has thick glass on the storefront



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[Chizzang]

People of color, women, and the less educated tend to be more religious..."

Damn that's a risky sentence

Hope that media outlet has thick glass on the storefront

They pretty much hit the trifecta right there

[SeattleGriz]

Lol.

Christianity has done more for humans and you continue to reap those benefits daily.

Atheists had to cancel their national convention a couple of years ago due to lack of support...yeah, it's growing by leaps and bounds with dedicated atheists like you.

Christianity is like anything else that involves humans
Some good things and some bad things

I have no idea about atheism conventions
and I'm suspicious one exists and it makes sense nobody would show up.. Why..?
Like going to a "we don't collect Stamps" convention

https://bigthink.com/philip-perry/is-at ... in-america

"No religious affiliation or “nones,” are the second largest faith category in North America today. They’ve been growing steadily for decades now. About 25% of the entire US population are among the unaffiliated. While in the past several years, the number of atheists has doubled. Most are white, male, and highly educated. 56% are politically liberal. People of color, women, and the less educated tend to be more religious..."

As always, nothing of importance said. Zzzzz

Highly educated. What does that mean today outside STEM?

[UNI88]

Christianity is like anything else that involves humans
Some good things and some bad things

I have no idea about atheism conventions
and I'm suspicious one exists and it makes sense nobody would show up.. Why..?
Like going to a "we don't collect Stamps" convention

https://bigthink.com/philip-perry/is-at ... in-america

"No religious affiliation or “nones,” are the second largest faith category in North America today. They’ve been growing steadily for decades now. About 25% of the entire US population are among the unaffiliated. While in the past several years, the number of atheists has doubled. Most are white, male, and highly educated. 56% are politically liberal. People of color, women, and the less educated tend to be more religious..."

As always, nothing of importance said. Zzzzz

Highly educated. What does that mean today outside STEM?

SG, why do you let Chizzy's comments about religion bug you? You believe, he doesn't (quite). Your religion is based on faith not facts so logical arguments don't really work.