Championship Subdivision Football | FCS Football | Stadiums | Blogs | Forums

SuperHornet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:57 pm Not true. For most of the game, that biased jerk Carl Cheffers tried to hand it to Philly on a silver platter. Goeddert bobbled the ball out of bounds, but they gave it to him. That reasoning for reversing the second KC scoop and score was bogus. The dude made a football move and let it go.

KC won this game all on their own....

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:39 am

SuperHornet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:57 pm Not true. For most of the game, that biased jerk Carl Cheffers tried to hand it to Philly on a silver platter. Goeddert bobbled the ball out of bounds, but they gave it to him. That reasoning for reversing the second KC scoop and score was bogus. The dude made a football move and let it go.

KC won this game all on their own....

Not a Philly fan, but it looked like a catch and both feet in bounds.

Philly turnover and KC punt return was the difference in the game.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:12 am

Gil Dobie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:39 am

Not a Philly fan, but it looked like a catch and both feet in bounds.

Philly turnover and KC punt return was the difference in the game.

Agreed, hard to overcome a turnover TD and essentially a special teams TD.

And while the defensive holding call at the end wasn't fully responsible for the outcome of the game, it's a brutally bad call that should be castigated. There wasn't a single defensive holding call in the game up to that point, and there were ample examples of worse defensive holdings that weren't called throughout the game. You can't establish that level of officiating, and then change it in the last two minutes. If that's a defensive holding that gets flagged, then you need to be flagging a lot more along the way. Like I said, maybe the outcome is the same, but we were denied the opportunity to see a real classic ending to what had been a really classic game up to that point. Based on the game up to that point, that flag can't come out for that play.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:23 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:12 am

Agreed, hard to overcome a turnover TD and essentially a special teams TD.

And while the defensive holding call at the end wasn't fully responsible for the outcome of the game, it's a brutally bad call that should be castigated. There wasn't a single defensive holding call in the game up to that point, and there were ample examples of worse defensive holdings that weren't called throughout the game. You can't establish that level of officiating, and then change it in the last two minutes. If that's a defensive holding that gets flagged, then you need to be flagging a lot more along the way. Like I said, maybe the outcome is the same, but we were denied the opportunity to see a real classic ending to what had been a really classic game up to that point. Based on the game up to that point, that flag can't come out for that play.

It’s a call that happens often throughout the season. It was a timing route, Mahomes knew it (maybe even saw the hold), and made what looked like an overthrow but was to an end zone corner spot. He immediately pointed at the hold. No one would have bitched much if it hadn’t been called but it was there.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:47 am

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:23 am

It’s a call that happens often throughout the season. It was a timing route, Mahomes knew it (maybe even saw the hold), and made what looked like an overthrow but was to an end zone corner spot. He immediately pointed at the hold. No one would have bitched much if it hadn’t been called but it was there.

Mahomes never saw it, look at the replay again, he's looking at the other side of the field when the hold, for what it was, happens. WR wasn't even the primary guy on that play.

Like I said, if they called that all game long there's no beef with it. But there were at least double digit defensive holds worse than in this game alone that that didn't get called, so to suddenly call that one at the end is the bad officiating part of it. It's like not giving a high strike all game long in baseball and then in the bottom of the 9th opening up the strike zone and calling it.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:12 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:47 am

Mahomes never saw it, look at the replay again, he's looking at the other side of the field when the hold, for what it was, happens. WR wasn't even the primary guy on that play.

Like I said, if they called that all game long there's no beef with it. But there were at least double digit defensive holds worse than in this game alone that that didn't get called, so to suddenly call that one at the end is the bad officiating part of it. It's like not giving a high strike all game long in baseball and then in the bottom of the 9th opening up the strike zone and calling it.

We’re both speculating. Just watched the video again. Mahomes could definitely see him. His head panned to the middle for just a second but was mostly oriented left and who knows where his eyes are. Mahomes was clapping at the call immediately.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:30 am

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:12 am

We’re both speculating. Just watched the video again. Mahomes could definitely see him. His head panned to the middle for just a second but was mostly oriented left and who knows where his eyes are. Mahomes was clapping at the call immediately.

Like I said, watch the replay, the hold happened pretty much at the snap at the line of scrimmage. Mahomes was looking to the right of the field when that happened. And QB's clap at lots of stuff immediately, especially with their coaching staffs and sidelines doing the same. Interesting the WR who was held wasn't part of that group. Like I said, DB's and WR's knew what was being called and what wasn't being called all game. That last flag was an aberration compared to the decisions not to flag that came before it. Can't get around that aspect of it.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:41 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:30 am

Like I said, watch the replay, the hold happened pretty much at the snap at the line of scrimmage. Mahomes was looking to the right of the field when that happened. And QB's clap at lots of stuff immediately, especially with their coaching staffs and sidelines doing the same. Interesting the WR who was held wasn't part of that group. Like I said, DB's and WR's knew what was being called and what wasn't being called all game. That last flag was an aberration compared to the decisions not to flag that came before it. Can't get around that aspect of it.

The DB made contact twice on the route. Off the snap and then again as the WR made his 2nd move. Could have been no calls but still nothing egregious. Mahomes never looked any more right than middle of the field for a brief check and then back left.

dbackjon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:22 am Philly got away with a lot of defensive holding that SHOULD have been called. Don't cry that you didn't get away with penalties everytime.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:57 am

dbackjon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:22 am Philly got away with a lot of defensive holding that SHOULD have been called. Don't cry that you didn't get away with penalties everytime.

Call it consistently, both ways, all game, that's all that anyone ever asks for. Would've been easier to stomach the last defensive holding if there was a single defensive holding called in the prior 58 minutes. As you say, plenty of opportunities to call similar penalties before then.

I mean, at least then we could forget about that last call and instead focus on the abomination that was that Arizona grass. Two years of planning and growing and it was just an absolute disaster. Pretty sure both teams agreed on that.

dbackjon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:26 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:57 am

Call it consistently, both ways, all game, that's all that anyone ever asks for. Would've been easier to stomach the last defensive holding if there was a single defensive holding called in the prior 58 minutes. As you say, plenty of opportunities to call similar penalties before then.

I mean, at least then we could forget about that last call and instead focus on the abomination that was that Arizona grass. Two years of planning and growing and it was just an absolute disaster. Pretty sure both teams agreed on that.

Blame the NFL for the Grass. They are 100% in charge of the playing surface. The NFL began growing the turf 18 months ago, using their own grounds crew. Arizona had zero to do with the grass.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:48 am Good slo-mo if the hold.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:55 am

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:48 am Good slo-mo if the hold.

Awesome. Now show me the other ten defensive holds that looked like that, some less, some more, that weren't called in the first 58 minutes. No one is arguing that you couldn't call that a hold. The argument is that plays like that or worse weren't flagged in the same game up until that point.

You do realize we're not talking about the weak defensive holding call late in the game from the Super Bowl before this one, right? No need to try to defend the call because Kupp was involved, that was last year's referee intrusion.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:01 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:55 am

Awesome. Now show me the other ten defensive holds that looked like that, some less, some more, that weren't called in the first 58 minutes. No one is arguing that you couldn't call that a hold. The argument is that plays like that or worse weren't flagged in the same game up until that point.

You do realize we're not talking about the weak defensive holding call late in the game from the Super Bowl before this one, right? No need to try to defend the call because Kupp was involved, that was last year's referee intrusion.

So at what point should they not call things?

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:08 pm

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:01 pm

So at what point should they not call things?

Again, not a hard concept being discussed here, try to stay with us. If it's a penalty in the first half, then it's a penalty in the second half or at the end of the game. If you haven't been calling similar plays penalties earlier in the game, you don't change your officiating later in the game. I don't think this is even controversial - there's plenty of consensus that the play was defensive holding, but that the refs hadn't called it during the game so tightening up their calls in crunch time was the wrong decision.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:25 pm

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:08 pm

Again, not a hard concept being discussed here, try to stay with us. If it's a penalty in the first half, then it's a penalty in the second half or at the end of the game. If you haven't been calling similar plays penalties earlier in the game, you don't change your officiating later in the game. I don't think this is even controversial - there's plenty of consensus that the play was defensive holding, but that the refs hadn't called it during the game so tightening up their calls in crunch time was the wrong decision.

Right. So no PI called (no matter what) after what point in the game?

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:28 pm

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:25 pm

Right. So no PI called (no matter what) after what point in the game?

You're just being obtuse and you know it. There's no point in the game where you change what you call, no matter how much time is left. A penalty in the first minute of the game, if you call it, is a penalty at the end of the game as well. The opposite of that, what isn't a penalty, is true as well.

GannonFan wrote:

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:25 pm

Right. So no PI called (no matter what) after what point in the game?

You're just being obtuse and you know it. There's no point in the game where you change what you call, no matter how much time is left. A penalty in the first minute of the game, if you call it, is a penalty at the end of the game as well. The opposite of that, what isn't a penalty, is true as well.