2019 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Post by 93henfan »

If I didn't already say it, a 1.5 hour race with zero commercials (F1) is much better for TV than a four hour race with two hours of commercials and very artificial and awkward “stages” (NASCAR).

And an F1 season is closer to an NFL schedule, which makes each race feel more substantial. Just a 21 race schedule compared to 36 for NASCAR. F1 generally races every other week and takes a month off for summer holiday in the middle of the season, sort of like a bye. The teams can completely regroup during that time for the second half push.

There’s only 10 teams of two cars each. Very symmetrical for my brain. Nice (highly technical) tracks and destinations (for the most part). The spectator experience (disclaimer: I've only been to Canada) in F1 was miles better as well. I haven’t seen similar effort from NASCAR since Charlotte races in the 1980s. Every F1 race is a single country's showcase event and so there is never a throwaway race in F1, like the spring race at Bristol or Atlanta where you may get less fans than a White Sox game.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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∞∞∞ wrote:Great atmosphere. Great race. AWFUL ending.
Kyle Busch gets his 3rd straight win :ohno: to tie Harvick with 3 wins.
Truex's (qualified on the pole) pit crew fucked him. No cautions whole race other than end of stage 1-2, then 4 cautions last 47 laps.
-47 to 40 laps to go, everyone pits, Truex maintained the lead.
-33 to 22 laps to go Truex, Harvick, Kyle Busch, running 1-2-3. Everyone lead lap pits, Truex comes out 3rd despite the #1 pit stall- issue on the left hand side.
-11 to 6 laps to go, everyone lead lap pits Truex falls from 2nd to 9th- more issues left hand side.
-4 laps-OT Truex pits again out of desperation.

Toyota Owners 400 results
1.Kyle Busch (led 32 laps)
2.Chase Elliott (8th 2nd place finish of career, no wins)
3.Denny Hamlin
4.Joey Logano (led 92 laps, won 1st & 2nd stage)
5.Kevin Harvick
6.Jimmie Johnson
7.Kyle Larson
8.Brad Keselowski
9.Clint Bowyer (led 45 laps)
10.Daniel Suarez
11.Kurt Busch (led 98 laps)
12.William Byron
13.Erik Jones
14.Martin Truex Jr. (led 121 laps)
15.Austin Dillon
16.Matt DiBenedetto
17.Aric Almirola
18.Alex Bowman
19.Jamie McMurray
20.Ty Dillon
21.Trevor Bayne
22.Ryan Blaney
23.Ricky Stenhouse Jr.
24.Paul Menard
25.Darrell Wallace Jr.
26.Chris Buescher
27.A.J. Allmendinger
28.Ross Chastain
29.Kasey Kahne
30.Cole Whitt
31.Michael McDowell
32.Daniel Hemric
33.David Ragan
34.Landon Cassill
35.Gray Gaulding
36.Harrison Rhodes
37.Ryan Newman
38.Reed Sorenson
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..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Post by BDKJMU »

93henfan wrote:If I didn't already say it, a 1.5 hour race with zero commercials (F1) is much better for TV than a four hour race with two hours of commercials and very artificial and awkward “stages” (NASCAR).

And an F1 season is closer to an NFL schedule, which makes each race feel more substantial. Just a 21 race schedule compared to 36 for NASCAR.
F1 generally races every other week and takes a month off for summer holiday in the middle of the season, sort of like a bye. The teams can completely regroup during that time for the second half push.

There’s only 10 teams of two cars each. Very symmetrical for my brain. Nice (highly technical) tracks and destinations (for the most part). The spectator experience (disclaimer: I've only been to Canada) in F1 was miles better as well. I haven’t seen similar effort from NASCAR since Charlotte races in the 1980s. Every F1 race is a single country's showcase event and so there is never a throwaway race in F1, like the spring race at Bristol or Atlanta where you may get less fans than a White Sox game.
I mostly agree. Not to go all JSO on you, but looking at racing reference, races last year, the average was about the same as football, about 3 hrs, 12 min. Commercials probably averaged about an hour.
-13 races under 3 hours. Watkins Glen was the shortest at 2:07.
-14 races 3 to 3.5 hrs
-8 races 3.5 to under 4 hrs
-1 races over 4 hours (Coke 600)

Tracks that had 2 races under 3 hrs:
Pocono (2:49 & 2:50)
Michigan (2:47 & 2:41)

Tracks that had 2 races over 3 1/2 hrs:
-Charlotte (even the fall 500 3:38)
-Dega (3:29 & 3:48)
-Martinsville (3:45 & 3:33)

I would knock it from 36 to 30 races. 20 races regular season, 10 race playoff. Start the season later, or end it earlier, or more bye weeks, or combination of the 3. Ideally get rid of some of the newer cookie cutter 1.5 mile. Short of that, if had to keep all 23 tracks:
-No 2nd race at Texas, Kansas, Michigan, Vegas, Pocono, Phoenix.
-Only tracks still to get 2 races would be Daytona, Dega, Martinsville, Bristol, RIR, Charlotte, maybe Dover.

Only 500 mile or races would be the Daytona 500, Coke 600, Southern 500.
-Both Talladegas, Texases, & fall Charlotte would go from 500 to 400 miles.
-One, if not both Dover would go from 400 to 350 miles. Other mile tracks PHX races are 312 miles and remaining race Loudon 301 miles. I know Dover is faster, but it isn't that much faster, and the races take longer.
-One, if not both Martinsville would go from 500 to 400 laps (Bristol's 500 laps are much quicker (last year 3:04 and 2:47 hours)).

Commercials:
-100% of green flag would be side by side.
-During stage breaks extra caution laps wouldn't be added in due to commercials which seems to be the case now (maybe 1-2 laps).
..peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard..
..But you have to go home now. We have to have peace…
..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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Not terrible ideas. I think we’ve discussed similar before.

As far as your race times, those are misleading. How much time for rain delays? They just destroy a NASCAR race. The only time F1 will delay is if it is raining so hard that water is pooling enough to hydroplane the rain (blue sidewall) tires. As soon as it lets up, there is no need to do any track drying and they proceed. There’s also strategy there. When do you switch rains for intermediates and intermediates for dry? You can really get burnt on the track if you make the wrong choice. And there is a two hour time limit to include any delays or safety cars. It’s a thing of beauty.

Nothing like last year's 3 hour 52 minute shitfest at Dover: http://racing-reference.info/race/2017_ ... r_Autism/W

Brutal. At least I didn't have to watch commercials. :lol:

Hey, I'm rooting for NASCAR to fix itself someday and become compelling once again. Brian France needs to kill himself or sell first and then progress can be made. They are living off TV contracts right now (hence the absolute ridiculous number of commercials in a modern NASCAR race). Once those run their course, NASCAR will be in a world of trouble and will then and only then have to reconcile with the fans and present a compelling show to sustain themselves with butts in seats like they did up until the 90s. Right now, they don't give a rip that they're only getting 40-50k at tracks where they pulled in 100-150k years ago. Once those mega-TV deals aren't renewed, the reckoning begins.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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Not the worst view last night. Sat in the first row of the upper stands at the Commonwealth Tower:

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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It doesn’t even shock me to see all those empty seats anymore.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Post by ∞∞∞ »

93henfan wrote:It doesn’t even shock me to see all those empty seats anymore.
To be fair, I took it between Stage 2 and Stage 3 (I didn't want to stand up and block the view of everyone behind me just for pics). It certainly wasn't sold out, but it was fairly packed...I'd say 85-90% full.

It certainly helped it was an amazing day for tailgating and going out in general.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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∞∞∞ wrote:
93henfan wrote:It doesn’t even shock me to see all those empty seats anymore.
To be fair, I took it between Stage 2 and Stage 3 (I didn't want to stand up and block the view of everyone behind me just for pics). It certainly wasn't sold out, but it was fairly packed...I'd say 85-90% full.

It certainly helped it was an amazing day for tailgating and going out in general.
Still, man, the thought of an empty seat at Richmond was unfathomable 10-15 years ago, and you can see nearly empty rows in the closest section under you.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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Some annual attendance revenue figures. Dover's downfall in particular is epic:

Dover
2005 - $37.2M
2010 - $16.4M
2016 - $6.9M

SMI (Atlanta, Bristol, Charlotte, Kentucky, Las Vegas, New Hamphire, Sonoma, Texas)
2005 - $177.4M
2010 - $139.1M
2016 - $90.6M

ISC (Auto Club, Chicagoland, Darlington, Daytona, Homestead-Miami, Kansas, Martinsville, Michigan, Phoenix, Richmond, Talladega, Watkins Glen)
2005 - $234.8M
2010 - $160.5M
2016 - $123.5M

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... s-big-skid
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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93henfan wrote:Not terrible ideas. I think we’ve discussed similar before.

As far as your race times, those are misleading. How much time for rain delays? They just destroy a NASCAR race. The only time F1 will delay is if it is raining so hard that water is pooling enough to hydroplane the rain (blue sidewall) tires. As soon as it lets up, there is no need to do any track drying and they proceed. There’s also strategy there. When do you switch rains for intermediates and intermediates for dry? You can really get burnt on the track if you make the wrong choice. And there is a two hour time limit to include any delays or safety cars. It’s a thing of beauty.

Nothing like last year's 3 hour 52 minute shitfest at Dover: http://racing-reference.info/race/2017_ ... r_Autism/W

Brutal. At least I didn't have to watch commercials. :lol:

Hey, I'm rooting for NASCAR to fix itself someday and become compelling once again. Brian France needs to kill himself or sell first and then progress can be made. They are living off TV contracts right now (hence the absolute ridiculous number of commercials in a modern NASCAR race). Once those run their course, NASCAR will be in a world of trouble and will then and only then have to reconcile with the fans and present a compelling show to sustain themselves with butts in seats like they did up until the 90s. Right now, they don't give a rip that they're only getting 40-50k at tracks where they pulled in 100-150k years ago. Once those mega-TV deals aren't renewed, the reckoning begins.
Dover might have been the biggest discrepancy time wise with the tracks that have 2 races, between the 2 races.
Spring: 3:52 hrs (15 cautions for 72 laps)
Fall: 3:06 hrs (4 cautions 24 laps)
http://racing-reference.info/race/2017_Delaware_400/W
Not sure why sin any more cautions in the Spring race..

Unfortunately the reckoning doesn’t come until 2024 when the TV contracts are up.
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..I know how you feel, but go home, and go home in peace.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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93henfan wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: To be fair, I took it between Stage 2 and Stage 3 (I didn't want to stand up and block the view of everyone behind me just for pics). It certainly wasn't sold out, but it was fairly packed...I'd say 85-90% full.

It certainly helped it was an amazing day for tailgating and going out in general.
Still, man, the thought of an empty seat at Richmond was unfathomable 10-15 years ago, and you can see nearly empty rows in the closest section under you.
Yeah, that’s even worse considering they’ve apparently gone from 112k seats to only 60k.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nascar/news ... dxbcscvxej
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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93henfan wrote:Some annual attendance revenue figures. Dover's downfall in particular is epic:

Dover
2005 - $37.2M
2010 - $16.4M
2016 - $6.9M

SMI (Atlanta, Bristol, Charlotte, Kentucky, Las Vegas, New Hamphire, Sonoma, Texas)
2005 - $177.4M
2010 - $139.1M
2016 - $90.6M

ISC (Auto Club, Chicagoland, Darlington, Daytona, Homestead-Miami, Kansas, Martinsville, Michigan, Phoenix, Richmond, Talladega, Watkins Glen)
2005 - $234.8M
2010 - $160.5M
2016 - $123.5M

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... s-big-skid
That’s even worse if you index for inflation. Whipping out an inflation calculator, the 2005 Dover 37.2 million in 2016 dollars would be $45.72 million. So 45.7 million to 6.9 million inflation adjusted. Wow.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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Matt Kenseth to rejoin Roush Fenway Racing, return to NASCAR Cup Series competition in 2018
Matt Kenseth will return to drive Roush Fenway Racing’s No. 6 car in select NASCAR Cup Series races this season.

....Kenseth will share the No. 6 Ford for the remainder of the 2018 season with Trevor Bayne, who has driven the car on a full-time basis since 2015 but will now move to part-time status rounding out the races Kenseth does not compete in.

Roush Fenway will announce the news at a press conference scheduled for Wednesday at the NASCAR Hall of Fame in Charlotte, N.C.

Kenseth’s first race with Roush Fenway is expected to be May 12 at Kansas Speedway.

Kenseth began his Cup Series with Roush Fenway, driving full-time for the team from 2001-2012 before leaving to join Joe Gibbs Racing in 2013. Kenseth, 46, drove for JGR through the end of the 2017 season with the team electing to replace him with 21-year-old Erik Jones, a move largely dictated not on performance but Jones’ youth and ability to attract sponsorship.

Unable to secure a ride with a team the same caliber as JGR, Kenseth then elected to step away from racing but emphasized he was not retiring and would return if the right situation arose.

Kenseth won the 2003 Cup Series and two Daytona 500s during his 12-year stint with Roush Fenway. Kenseth is a 39-time race winner in NASCAR’s premier division, with 15 of those wins coming with JGR.”
https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/n ... eries-2018
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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BDKJMU wrote:Matt Kenseth to rejoin Roush Fenway Racing, return to NASCAR Cup Series competition in 2018
Matt Kenseth will return to drive Roush Fenway Racing’s No. 6 car in select NASCAR Cup Series races this season.

....Kenseth will share the No. 6 Ford for the remainder of the 2018 season with Trevor Bayne, who has driven the car on a full-time basis since 2015 but will now move to part-time status rounding out the races Kenseth does not compete in.

Roush Fenway will announce the news at a press conference scheduled for Wednesday at the NASCAR Hall of Fame in Charlotte, N.C.

Kenseth’s first race with Roush Fenway is expected to be May 12 at Kansas Speedway.

Kenseth began his Cup Series with Roush Fenway, driving full-time for the team from 2001-2012 before leaving to join Joe Gibbs Racing in 2013. Kenseth, 46, drove for JGR through the end of the 2017 season with the team electing to replace him with 21-year-old Erik Jones, a move largely dictated not on performance but Jones’ youth and ability to attract sponsorship.

Unable to secure a ride with a team the same caliber as JGR, Kenseth then elected to step away from racing but emphasized he was not retiring and would return if the right situation arose.

Kenseth won the 2003 Cup Series and two Daytona 500s during his 12-year stint with Roush Fenway. Kenseth is a 39-time race winner in NASCAR’s premier division, with 15 of those wins coming with JGR.”
https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/n ... eries-2018
Here’s hoping he dies in a violent collision and/or fire.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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93henfan wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Matt Kenseth to rejoin Roush Fenway Racing, return to NASCAR Cup Series competition in 2018
Matt Kenseth will return to drive Roush Fenway Racing’s No. 6 car in select NASCAR Cup Series races this season.

....Kenseth will share the No. 6 Ford for the remainder of the 2018 season with Trevor Bayne, who has driven the car on a full-time basis since 2015 but will now move to part-time status rounding out the races Kenseth does not compete in.

Roush Fenway will announce the news at a press conference scheduled for Wednesday at the NASCAR Hall of Fame in Charlotte, N.C.

Kenseth’s first race with Roush Fenway is expected to be May 12 at Kansas Speedway.

Kenseth began his Cup Series with Roush Fenway, driving full-time for the team from 2001-2012 before leaving to join Joe Gibbs Racing in 2013. Kenseth, 46, drove for JGR through the end of the 2017 season with the team electing to replace him with 21-year-old Erik Jones, a move largely dictated not on performance but Jones’ youth and ability to attract sponsorship.

Unable to secure a ride with a team the same caliber as JGR, Kenseth then elected to step away from racing but emphasized he was not retiring and would return if the right situation arose.

Kenseth won the 2003 Cup Series and two Daytona 500s during his 12-year stint with Roush Fenway. Kenseth is a 39-time race winner in NASCAR’s premier division, with 15 of those wins coming with JGR.”
https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/n ... eries-2018
Here’s hoping he dies in a violent collision and/or fire.
:lol: I was about to make the title "93's favorite driver to rejoin Roush Fenway Racing, return to NASCAR Cup Series competition in 2018".

With Kenseth (turned 46 last month) a least NASCAR will have a driver over 42 again. I don't know if NASCAR has until this season not had a least 1 driver over 42..I think Harvick & Johnson, both 42, were the 2 oldest, and McMurray (41) and Newman (40) the only others over 40. Kurt Busch turns 40 in Aug..
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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For comparison, here are the ages of the entire F1 field (average age 26.85). You don’t find many 40 year old F1 drivers. The required reflexes and demands on the body from 8G corners simply cannot be sustained into older age. They’re basically fighter pilots in F1:

Alonso - 36
Bottas - 28
Ericsson - 27
Gasly - 21
Grosjean - 32
Hamilton - 32
Hartley - 29
Hulkenberg - 30
Leclerc - 20
Magnussen - 25
Ocan - 21
Perez - 28
Raikkonen - 38
Ricciardo - 29
Sainz - 23
Sirotkin - 22
Stroll - 19
Vandoorne - 26
Verstappen - 20
Vettel - 31
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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Lewis Hamilton steals the win in Baku. He flat-spotted a tire early and had to pit and was looking at a 3rd place finish. Vettel led most of the race and was the winner in waiting, but then Verstappen blocks his teammate Ricciardo causing an accident that wipes them both out and brings out the safety car. Bottas was temporarily in the lead due to an earlier pit stop by Vettel. This was a huge break that should have given Bottas the victory, as he was able to pit under the safety car and stay in the lead. On the restart, Vettel locks up passing Bottas for the lead and skids wide allowing Hamilton by. All Bottas has to do is cruise home for the win, BUT he cuts a tire with two laps left and Hamilton rolls home to the checkers. Helluva race. :notworthy:
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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93henfan wrote:Lewis Hamilton steals the win in Baku. He flat-spotted a tire early and had to pit and was looking at a 3rd place finish. Vettel led most of the race and was the winner in waiting, but then Verstappen blocks his teammate Ricciardo causing an accident that wipes them both out and brings out the safety car. Bottas was temporarily in the lead due to an earlier pit stop by Vettel. This was a huge break that should have given Bottas the victory, as he was able to pit under the safety car and stay in the lead. On the restart, Vettel locks up passing Bottas for the lead and skids wide allowing Hamilton by. All Bottas has to do is cruise home for the win, BUT he cuts a tire with two laps left and Hamilton rolls home to the checkers. Helluva race. :notworthy:
So the only time there was a lead change was during pit stops or because of cut tires?
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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CAA Flagship wrote:
93henfan wrote:Lewis Hamilton steals the win in Baku. He flat-spotted a tire early and had to pit and was looking at a 3rd place finish. Vettel led most of the race and was the winner in waiting, but then Verstappen blocks his teammate Ricciardo causing an accident that wipes them both out and brings out the safety car. Bottas was temporarily in the lead due to an earlier pit stop by Vettel. This was a huge break that should have given Bottas the victory, as he was able to pit under the safety car and stay in the lead. On the restart, Vettel locks up passing Bottas for the lead and skids wide allowing Hamilton by. All Bottas has to do is cruise home for the win, BUT he cuts a tire with two laps left and Hamilton rolls home to the checkers. Helluva race. :notworthy:
So the only time there was a lead change was during pit stops or because of cut tires?
Nope, Vettel passed Bottas before he locked up. I'm pretty sure I already typed that. :lol:

Tons of overtaking in the 2nd through 5th spots today. That's where all the action was, jockeying to get in place for the eventual win. The Red Bull battles were incredible all day.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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Hamilton in the points lead for the first time this season. After four races:

Pos Driver Nationality Car Pts
1 Hamilton GBR Mercedes 70
2 Vettel GER Ferrari 66
3 Raikkonen FIN Ferrari 48
4 Bottas FIN Mercedes 40
5 Ricciardo AUS Red Bull Racing 37
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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I was disappointed in that wreck that took out Byron and a ton of others, but there was nothing really foul about it. Just the breaks of racing....
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

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Merrill Reese and Mike Quick, broadcast team for the Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles, to do “Start Your Engines” at Dover today. :clap:

Could get a wet ass. Forecast calls for scattered t-storms starting around 3pm. Race starts at 2:15.
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Post by 93henfan »

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Ibanez
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Re: 2018 NASCAR/INDYCAR/F1

Post by Ibanez »

According to Reuters, “The France family, which controls NASCAR, is working with investment bank Goldman Sachs Group Inc (GS.N) to identify a potential deal for the company, three sources said, cautioning that the deliberations are at exploratory stage and no agreement of any kind is certain.”

http://www.charlottestories.com/france- ... perations/


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