Hey, DJH....(The Joe Mauer Memorial Thread)

[Gil Dobie]

They would not be much different. Bill Smith took over as GM in 2007 and was fired in 2011. All-Time high salaries, minor leagues depleted. 2012 Terry Ryan took over and started rebuilding. Ryan was the GM from 1994 to 2007. He didn't have a winning season until 2001, and built a franchise that won 6 division titles in 9 seasons. Smith did not continue the process. Ryan has rebuilt the minor league system, and the youngsters are starting to trickle up to the Majors. The Twins farm system is rated number 3 right now. Hopefully my Tigers can keep them at bay when these youngsters arrive for the Twins.

Mauer's salary started in 2011, negotiated by Billy Smith.

Twins payroll
2010 - 97.5
2011 - 112.7
2012 - 94
2013 - 75.8
2014 - 85.7
2015 - 108.9

Really? Not much different? Put Paul Goldschmidt at first and you don't think the Twinkies would be "much different"?

Is Goldschmidt available for a price the Twins would pay vs bringing up a Minor Leaguer. I say the Twins would rather use the Minor Leaguer.

[dbackjon]

Heck put Mark Trumbo there

[Gil Dobie]

Heck put Mark Trumbo there

I doubt the Twins would have interest in him, even if someone paid them to take him.

[AZGrizFan]

Really? Not much different? Put Paul Goldschmidt at first and you don't think the Twinkies would be "much different"?

Is Goldschmidt available for a price the Twins would pay vs bringing up a Minor Leaguer. I say the Twins would rather use the Minor Leaguer.

Sure they would, especially with that sinkhole of production anchoring them down by $23 million. But ain't NOBODY gonna save the Twinkies from THAT contract....they're stuck with him for another 4(?) years...

[Gil Dobie]

Is Goldschmidt available for a price the Twins would pay vs bringing up a Minor Leaguer. I say the Twins would rather use the Minor Leaguer.

Sure they would, especially with that sinkhole of production anchoring them down by $23 million. But ain't NOBODY gonna save the Twinkies from THAT contract....they're stuck with him for another 4(?) years...

Even without Mauer's contract, the Twins would probably go with the Minor Leaguer. 2018 is the last year of the contract. The Twins are content with Mauer, he's still a big draw for fans. Probably 7 out of 10 jersey's you see fans wearing at a game are Mauer. Bastard had a 3 run triple last night to help beat the Tigers.

[AZGrizFan]

Sure they would, especially with that sinkhole of production anchoring them down by $23 million. But ain't NOBODY gonna save the Twinkies from THAT contract....they're stuck with him for another 4(?) years...

Even without Mauer's contract, the Twins would probably go with the Minor Leaguer. 2018 is the last year of the contract. The Twins are content with Mauer, he's still a big draw for fans. Probably 7 out of 10 jersey's you see fans wearing at a game are Mauer. Bastard had a 3 run triple last night to help beat the Tigers.

They're content with Mauer because they don't have a choice--ain't a GM dumb enough to take THAT albatross off their hands. They can only try to recoup SOME of that $$ in merch sales. Imagine how good they'd be if they could bring up a stud minor leaguer at the minimum and spend that $23 mil on a couple front line pitchers...

[Gil Dobie]

They're content with Mauer because they don't have a choice--ain't a GM dumb enough to take THAT albatross off their hands. They can only try to recoup SOME of that $$ in merch sales. Imagine how good they'd be if they could bring up a stud minor leaguer at the minimum and spend that $23 mil on a couple front line pitchers...

They have signed a couple front line pitchers, Phil Hughes and Ervin Santana. Hughes is their best pitcher, but Santana was suspended for PED's. The stud minor leaguer is in AA ball, recovering from a Tommy John.

[dbackjon]

They're content with Mauer because they don't have a choice--ain't a GM dumb enough to take THAT albatross off their hands. They can only try to recoup SOME of that $$ in merch sales. Imagine how good they'd be if they could bring up a stud minor leaguer at the minimum and spend that $23 mil on a couple front line pitchers...

They have signed a couple front line pitchers, Phil Hughes and Ervin Santana. Hughes is their best pitcher, but Santana was suspended for PED's. The stud minor leaguer is in AA ball, recovering from a Tommy John.

The Twinkies have a CHEATER on them?????

[AZGrizFan]

They're content with Mauer because they don't have a choice--ain't a GM dumb enough to take THAT albatross off their hands. They can only try to recoup SOME of that $$ in merch sales. Imagine how good they'd be if they could bring up a stud minor leaguer at the minimum and spend that $23 mil on a couple front line pitchers...

They have signed a couple front line pitchers, Phil Hughes and Ervin Santana. Hughes is their best pitcher, but Santana was suspended for PED's. The stud minor leaguer is in AA ball, recovering from a Tommy John.

I mean a couple MORE.

[Gil Dobie]

They have signed a couple front line pitchers, Phil Hughes and Ervin Santana. Hughes is their best pitcher, but Santana was suspended for PED's. The stud minor leaguer is in AA ball, recovering from a Tommy John.

The Twinkies have a CHEATER on them?????

No, he hasn't played yet. They WILL have a cheater playing the second half of the season.

[clenz]

In the most Joe Mauer fashion possible Joe hit a three run single the other night.

Z should be growing to like Joe. His average is down (Z said he'd take a .280 hitter), his RBI's are up (he's 13th in the AL right now and only 9 behind the leader) and a .341 OPB

For 1st basemen
9th in runs scored
5th in RBIs
3rd in hits
3rd in doubles
1st in triples
5th in RBIs
9th most walks
4th in average
9th in slugging
7th in OPS

But he doesn't have 15 home runs already, so he's worthless.

John can post the raw numbers, but when you look at the raw numbers compared to other first basemen he all of a sudden looks pretty good, doesn't he? The only thing he doesn't have is home runs.

[AZGrizFan]

In the most Joe Mauer fashion possible Joe hit a three run single the other night.

Z should be growing to like Joe. His average is down (Z said he'd take a .280 hitter), his RBI's are up (he's 13th in the AL right now and only 9 behind the leader) and a .341 OPB

For 1st basemen
9th in runs scored (meaning there are only 6 worse)
5th in RBIs
3rd in hits
3rd in doubles
1st in triples
5th in RBIs
9th most walks (meaning there are only 6 worse)
4th in average
9th in slugging (meaning there are only 6 worse)
7th in OPS (meaning he's middle of the pack)

But he doesn't have 15 home runs already, so he's worthless.

John can post the raw numbers, but when you look at the raw numbers compared to other first basemen he all of a sudden looks pretty good, doesn't he? The only thing he doesn't have is home runs.

Except that he's PAID like he should be 1st or 2nd in all those categories. That performance would be great if they were coming from a guy making $4-$5 mil per year...

[clenz]

Joe Mauer has produced $274 million in on-field value for the Twins while being paid $135 million by the Twins, according to FanGraphs.



So...he's actually worth twice what he's paid

[AZGrizFan]

Joe Mauer has produced $274 million in on-field value for the Twins while being paid $135 million by the Twins, according to FanGraphs.



So...he's actually worth twice what he's paid

Is fangraphs like sagarin?

[DJH]

Joe Mauer has produced $274 million in on-field value for the Twins while being paid $135 million by the Twins, according to FanGraphs.



So...he's actually worth twice what he's paid

Is fangraphs like sagarin?

In the sense that you are incapable of comprehending it, yes, it is very much like sagarin.

[AZGrizFan]

Is fangraphs like sagarin?

In the sense that you are incapable of comprehending it, yes, it is very much like sagarin.

Keep justifyin'....it looks good on you.

[Gil Dobie]

In the most Joe Mauer fashion possible Joe hit a three run single the other night.

Z should be growing to like Joe. His average is down (Z said he'd take a .280 hitter), his RBI's are up (he's 13th in the AL right now and only 9 behind the leader) and a .341 OPB

For 1st basemen
9th in runs scored (meaning there are only 6 worse)
5th in RBIs
3rd in hits
3rd in doubles
1st in triples
5th in RBIs
9th most walks (meaning there are only 6 worse)
4th in average
9th in slugging (meaning there are only 6 worse)
7th in OPS (meaning he's middle of the pack)

But he doesn't have 15 home runs already, so he's worthless.

John can post the raw numbers, but when you look at the raw numbers compared to other first basemen he all of a sudden looks pretty good, doesn't he? The only thing he doesn't have is home runs.

Except that he's PAID like he should be 1st or 2nd in all those categories. That performance would be great if they were coming from a guy making $4-$5 mil per year...

Mauer is #5 in salaries for First Basemen. Cabrera passes him next year. Votto jumps to $25 Million in 2018.
1
Ryan Howard
1ST BASE $25,000,000
2
Prince Fielder
1ST BASE $24,000,000

Albert Pujols
1ST BASE $24,000,000
4
Mark Teixeira
1ST BASE $23,125,000
5
Joe Mauer
1ST BASE $23,000,000
6
Miguel Cabrera
1ST BASE $22,000,000
7
Adrian Gonzalez
1ST BASE $21,857,142
8
Mike Napoli
1ST BASE $16,000,000
9
Joey Votto
1ST BASE $14,000,000

Ryan Zimmerman
1ST BASE $14,000,000

[AZGrizFan]

Except that he's PAID like he should be 1st or 2nd in all those categories. That performance would be great if they were coming from a guy making $4-$5 mil per year...

Mauer is #5 in salaries for First Basemen. Cabrera passes him next year. Votto jumps to $25 Million in 2018.
1
Ryan Howard
1ST BASE $25,000,000
2
Prince Fielder
1ST BASE $24,000,000

Albert Pujols
1ST BASE $24,000,000
4
Mark Teixeira
1ST BASE $23,125,000
5
Joe Mauer
1ST BASE $23,000,000
6
Miguel Cabrera
1ST BASE $22,000,000
7
Adrian Gonzalez
1ST BASE $21,857,142
8
Mike Napoli
1ST BASE $16,000,000
9
Joey Votto
1ST BASE $14,000,000

Ryan Zimmerman
1ST BASE $14,000,000

Living proof that, with a few rare exceptions (Gonzalez, Cabrera, Votto, Fielder) MLB grossly overpays 1st basemen. The difference is, guys like Texiera, Pujols and Howard performed at a high level for YEARS prior to securing big contracts. Joey got his after ONE decent season.

And I wouldn't trade any of 'em for Paul Goldschmidt.

[Gil Dobie]

Mauer is #5 in salaries for First Basemen. Cabrera passes him next year. Votto jumps to $25 Million in 2018.
1
Ryan Howard
1ST BASE $25,000,000
2
Prince Fielder
1ST BASE $24,000,000

Albert Pujols
1ST BASE $24,000,000
4
Mark Teixeira
1ST BASE $23,125,000
5
Joe Mauer
1ST BASE $23,000,000
6
Miguel Cabrera
1ST BASE $22,000,000
7
Adrian Gonzalez
1ST BASE $21,857,142
8
Mike Napoli
1ST BASE $16,000,000
9
Joey Votto
1ST BASE $14,000,000

Ryan Zimmerman
1ST BASE $14,000,000

Living proof that, with a few rare exceptions (Gonzalez, Cabrera, Votto, Fielder) MLB grossly overpays 1st basemen. The difference is, guys like Texiera, Pujols and Howard performed at a high level for YEARS prior to securing big contracts. Joey got his after ONE decent season.

And I wouldn't trade any of 'em for Paul Goldschmidt.

Although Mauer is in his declining years baseball-wise, he has had 4 seasons better than Goldschmidts best. By the time Mauer was 27 (Goldschmidt's age), he had won 3 batting titles, a MVP, 4 All-Star appearances, and 4 silver slugger awards, 3 Gold Gloves at catcher. Goldy has 2 All-Star appearances, a silver slugger and a gold glove at first base.

[AZGrizFan]

Living proof that, with a few rare exceptions (Gonzalez, Cabrera, Votto, Fielder) MLB grossly overpays 1st basemen. The difference is, guys like Texiera, Pujols and Howard performed at a high level for YEARS prior to securing big contracts. Joey got his after ONE decent season.

And I wouldn't trade any of 'em for Paul Goldschmidt.

Although Mauer is in his declining years baseball-wise, he has had 4 seasons better than Goldschmidts best. By the time Mauer was 27 (Goldschmidt's age), he had won 3 batting titles, a MVP, 4 All-Star appearances, and 4 silver slugger awards, 3 Gold Gloves at catcher. Goldy has 2 All-Star appearances, a silver slugger and a gold glove at first base.

He was also a catcher. Where ANY offensive performance is a bonus. Much easier to make AS appearances and win SS awards.

[Gil Dobie]

Although Mauer is in his declining years baseball-wise, he has had 4 seasons better than Goldschmidts best. By the time Mauer was 27 (Goldschmidt's age), he had won 3 batting titles, a MVP, 4 All-Star appearances, and 4 silver slugger awards, 3 Gold Gloves at catcher. Goldy has 2 All-Star appearances, a silver slugger and a gold glove at first base.

He was also a catcher. Where ANY offensive performance is a bonus. Much easier to make AS appearances and win SS awards.

........and win 3 batting titles.

[clenz]

The $ value of a player is strictly on field stats turned into a $ value that the player could/would earn on the open market if contracts were only year long and a new contract were signed every year


1. Ryan Howard - $122.4M
Actual Contract: 2012: $20M, 2013: $20M, 2014: $25M, 2015: $25M, 2016: $25M 2017 Team Option: $23M ($10M buyout)
- Negative value, or value below 10 every year since 2009

2. Prince Fielder - $185.6M
Actual Contract: 2012: $23M, 2013: $23M, 2014: $24M, 2015: $24M, 2016: $24M, 2017: $24M, 2018: $24M, 2019: $24M, 2020: $24M


3. Albert Pujols - $442.4m
Actual Contract - 2012: $12M, 2013: $16M, 2014: $23M, 2015: $24M, 2016: $25M, 2017: $26M, 2018: $27M, 2019: $28M, 2020: $29M, 2021: $30M - plus 1 million dollars per year for 10 years after contract completion/retirement
- Value less than 5 2 of the last 3 years

4. Mark Teixeira - $255.6
Actual Contract - 2009: $20M, 2010: $20M, 2011: $22.5M, 2012: $22.5M, 2013: $22.5M, 2014: $22.5M, 2015: $22.5M, 2016: $22.5M
-Had a negative value, or value below 8, each of the last 3 years

5. Joe Mauer - $272.1M
Actual Contract - 2011: $23M, 2012: $23M, 2013: $23M, 2014: $23M, 2015: $23M, 2016: $23M, 2017: $23M, 2018: $23M
- Had a value below 18M just thrice in his career. Value of $29.5M, or higher, in 5 of last 8 years. Lowest is 9.8M (2011)

6. Miguel Cabrera - $382.2
Actual Contract - 2016: $28M, 2017: $28M, 2018: $30M, 2019: $30M, 2020: $30M, 2021: $30M, 2022: $32M, 2023: $32M 2024 Team Option: $30M ($8M buyout) Becomes guaranteed with Top 10 MVP finish 2025 Team Option: $30M Becomes guaranteed with Top 10 MVP finish

7. Adrian Gonzalez - $245.0
Actual Contract - 2012: $21M, 2013: $21M, 2014: $21M, 2015: $21M, 2016: $21M, 2017: $21.5M, 2018: $21.5M

8. Mike Napoli - -$171.6M
Actual Contract - 2014: $16M, 2015: $16M

9. Joey Votto - $241.0M
Actual Contract - 2014: $12M, 2015: $14M, 2016: $20M, 2017: $22M, 2018: $25M, 2019: $25M, 2020: $25M, 2021: $25M, 2022: $25M, 2023: $25M 2024 Team Option: $20M ($7M buyout)
- Contract looked REAL good in 2013. Value less than 9M since the contract was signed

10. Ryan Zimmerman - $213.5
Actual Contract - 2014: $14M, 2015: $14M, 2016: $14M, 2017: $14M, 2018: $14M, 2019: $18M
2020 Team Option: $18M ($2M buyout) 5 year, $10,000,000 personal services contract to begin once playing career ends.



Seems as though there are a couple over paid, based on on-field performance. Joe isn't one of them. That doesn't even into account merchandise/advertising revenue that each player brings in. Watching the Twins/Red Sox game yesterday - 85% of player tee and jerseys are Mauer. The amount of money that Joe brings the Twins is EASILY at least three times what he's paid.

It's not his contract hurting the Twins. There's a ton of money to be spent if they want too. The issues with the Twins the last decade has zero to do with Joe's contract.

Nolasco is a bigger drag of a contract than Joe, based on performance and advertising/retail dollars

[AZGrizFan]

Good god, the money paid to the players is obscene.

[Gil Dobie]

Freakin Twins have the best record in the American League.

[clenz]

BUT THAT FUCKING JOE MAUER CONTRACT IS DRAGGING THEM DOWN!

TOO MANY SINGLES!
NOT ENOUGH HR!
HE SUCKS!