89Hen wrote:
I think you're not following this. Big Sky guy doesn't like the "coat-tail riding" because there are no coattails in the Big Sky. And to be honest, riding one coattail is awfully crowded.
There are lies, damn lies and statistics. You've established the criteria that best support your argument and dismiss any other criteria. Did you draw the line at 14 years so you could include Delaware? If you add 3 more years you have to include Western Kentucky, Montana and Georgia Southern and your argument isn't quite as persuasive. Over that same time it looks like the CAA had 6 different schools that played in NC while the MVFC had 4, SoCon 3, Big Sky 2 and Southland 2. No doubt the CAA is a quality conference with a lot of depth but it's not the only top notch conference in FCS.
And if he draws the line 7 years ago there's no SoCon at all..
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89Hen wrote:
I think you're not following this. Big Sky guy doesn't like the "coat-tail riding" because there are no coattails in the Big Sky. And to be honest, riding one coattail is awfully crowded.
There are lies, damn lies and statistics. You've established the criteria that best support your argument and dismiss any other criteria. Did you draw the line at 14 years so you could include Delaware? If you add 3 more years you have to include Western Kentucky, Montana and Georgia Southern and your argument isn't quite as persuasive. Over that same time it looks like the CAA had 6 different schools that played in NC while the MVFC had 4, SoCon 3, Big Sky 2 and Southland 2. No doubt the CAA is a quality conference with a lot of depth but it's not the only top notch conference in FCS.
Are WKU and GSU even in I-AA now? Why not count Marshall championships?
UNI88 wrote:
There are lies, damn lies and statistics. You've established the criteria that best support your argument and dismiss any other criteria. Did you draw the line at 14 years so you could include Delaware? If you add 3 more years you have to include Western Kentucky, Montana and Georgia Southern and your argument isn't quite as persuasive. Over that same time it looks like the CAA had 6 different schools that played in NC while the MVFC had 4, SoCon 3, Big Sky 2 and Southland 2. No doubt the CAA is a quality conference with a lot of depth but it's not the only top notch conference in FCS.
Are WKU and GSU even in I-AA now? Why not count Marshall championships?
There was no MVFC 14 years ago, if you are going to be picky and leave off GSU, Marshall and WKU, teams that were in FCS when they won their titles.
89Hen wrote:
Are WKU and GSU even in I-AA now? Why not count Marshall championships?
There was no MVFC 14 years ago, if you are going to be picky and leave off GSU, Marshall and WKU, teams that were in FCS when they won their titles.
Doesn't is make sense to only include teams actually IN the conference when we're talking about the strength of the conference? If we went far enough back, the Ivy would be the strongest conference in all of football.
Gil Dobie wrote:
There was no MVFC 14 years ago, if you are going to be picky and leave off GSU, Marshall and WKU, teams that were in FCS when they won their titles.
Doesn't is make sense to only include teams actually IN the conference when we're talking about the strength of the conference? If we went far enough back, the Ivy would be the strongest conference in all of football.
I think you need to include former teams. The specific conference strength changes with additions and losses, as you know, and teams that are up and down over time.
89Hen wrote:
Doesn't is make sense to only include teams actually IN the conference when we're talking about the strength of the conference? If we went far enough back, the Ivy would be the strongest conference in all of football.
I think you need to include former teams. The specific conference strength changes with additions and losses, as you know, and teams that are up and down over time.
Of course it changes but including WKU as MVFC is pointless since one, they never played in the MVFC and two, even if you count Gateway it was years ago. Should we include West Virginia and Clemson in the SoCon?
I would be more open to including teams new to the conference and using their past achievements before they joined since that speaks to the current strength of the conference.
Gil Dobie wrote:
I think you need to include former teams. The specific conference strength changes with additions and losses, as you know, and teams that are up and down over time.
Of course it changes but including WKU as MVFC is pointless since one, they never played in the MVFC and two, even if you count Gateway it was years ago. Should we include West Virginia and Clemson in the SoCon?
I would be more open to including teams new to the conference and using their past achievements before they joined since that speaks to the current strength of the conference.
I'd say the last 5 years is a good judge of conference strength. Plus the MVFC is adding one of the top Big Sky teams in the next few years.
89Hen wrote:
Of course it changes but including WKU as MVFC is pointless since one, they never played in the MVFC and two, even if you count Gateway it was years ago. Should we include West Virginia and Clemson in the SoCon?
I would be more open to including teams new to the conference and using their past achievements before they joined since that speaks to the current strength of the conference.
I'd say the last 5 years is a good judge of conference strength. Plus the MVFC is adding one of the top Big Sky teams in the next few years.
When using the championship as the basis, you may need to go further back. AppSt 3 in a row was not very indicative of the strength of the SoCon. It was indicative of the strength of AppSt. In 2006 and 2007 there was only one playoff win combined by a SoCon member not named AppSt.
Gil Dobie wrote:
I'd say the last 5 years is a good judge of conference strength. Plus the MVFC is adding one of the top Big Sky teams in the next few years.
When using the championship as the basis, you may need to go further back. AppSt 3 in a row was not very indicative of the strength of the SoCon. It was indicative of the strength of AppSt. In 2006 and 2007 there was only one playoff win combined by a SoCon member not named AppSt.
MVFC has had 3 teams in the championship game in the last 5 years, and the CAA 2. That's a good tell, of conference strength.
Gil Dobie wrote:
I'd say the last 5 years is a good judge of conference strength. Plus the MVFC is adding one of the top Big Sky teams in the next few years.
When using the championship as the basis, you may need to go further back. AppSt 3 in a row was not very indicative of the strength of the SoCon. It was indicative of the strength of AppSt. In 2006 and 2007 there was only one playoff win combined by a SoCon member not named AppSt.
So 5 years isn't far enough but 15 years is too far? An NC from 14 years ago does almost nothing to demonstrate a conference's current strength.
NCs is one factor that you can use to demonstrate conference strength but it isn't the only reasonable factor. OOC record, playoff invites, playoff wins, etc. are also reasonable. More recent results should be given greater weight then older results.
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89Hen wrote:
When using the championship as the basis, you may need to go further back. AppSt 3 in a row was not very indicative of the strength of the SoCon. It was indicative of the strength of AppSt. In 2006 and 2007 there was only one playoff win combined by a SoCon member not named AppSt.
So 5 years isn't far enough but 15 years is too far? An NC from 14 years ago does almost nothing to demonstrate a conference's current strength.
NCs is one factor that you can use to demonstrate conference strength but it isn't the only reasonable factor. OOC record, playoff invites, playoff wins, etc. are also reasonable. More recent results should be given greater weight then older results.
Where did I say 15 was too far? And I said 5 may be too small if you are basing this on champions and one champion repeats several years in a row. I don't think NC's is the measuring stick for overall conference strength. The only reason it came up is because the CAA has had so many different NC's. THAT does speak to overall depth IMO.
I did forget Illinois St making the championship game a couple years ago, so my statement of NDSU and nobody else is not valid.
How about this for a stat? Since 2001 the NC game has featured at least one team from the CAA or MVFC/Gateway.
I think you're not following this. Big Sky guy doesn't like the "coat-tail riding" because there are no coattails in the Big Sky. And to be honest, riding one coattail is awfully crowded.
