Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby LeadBolt » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:05 am

I also thought that 16 was an ideal number of teams in the FCS playoffs. The number is necessarily a trade-off. Sixteen seemed work the best imo.

I would rather see more football through a 12 game season than expanded play-offs. More teams, more games in regular season than in a playoff.


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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby kalm » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:55 am

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
Better chance my team gets in at 6-5, 7-4.
Better chance for a home playoff game.
More teams expands the interest in the subdivision.
Teams stay relevant further into the season.
Expanded pool incentivizes improvement for more programs.
Local media provides more coverage later in the season.
More extensive media coverage helps the FCS brand.
Upsets and cinderellas.
More inter-conference matchups.
More football.
I like football.

:lol: :roll: I like football too. But I don't find myself clamoring for the highly anticipated match-up of Central Connecticut State vs Mercer in the playoffs.

Your logic leads to including every team in the subdivision and maybe having a 3 game regular season followed by a 96 team bracket. Go fish somewhere else. :coffee:


No. 32 is enough. IIRC FCS is at about 117 teams with the departure of Liberty and CCU so that's about the same percentage of playoff teams as NFL or DI hoops. Some matchups would garner more interest than others but both Mercer and CCSU would benefit from playoff experience and perhaps be more competitive in the future as a result. It would also help with recruiting and fundraising further raising their profile. A more competitive and deeper subdivision is desired, no?

But you could also see matchups like an-large 10-1 Patriot team @ a %1 seed in the first round with a chance at a massive upset. Or 6-5 EWU @ 7-4 Delaware which we'd both watch.

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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby 89Hen » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:57 pm

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote: :lol: :roll: I like football too. But I don't find myself clamoring for the highly anticipated match-up of Central Connecticut State vs Mercer in the playoffs.

Your logic leads to including every team in the subdivision and maybe having a 3 game regular season followed by a 96 team bracket. Go fish somewhere else. :coffee:


No. 32 is enough. IIRC FCS is at about 117 teams with the departure of Liberty and CCU so that's about the same percentage of playoff teams as NFL or DI hoops. Some matchups would garner more interest than others but both Mercer and CCSU would benefit from playoff experience and perhaps be more competitive in the future as a result. It would also help with recruiting and fundraising further raising their profile. A more competitive and deeper subdivision is desired, no?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. More is better. 32 is enough. Make up your damn mind. Wouldn't it benefit the 8th place team of the Pioneer as much as Mercer or CCSU? Why not just invite everyone so everyone can receive this great benefit? :tothehand: :tothehand: :tothehand: :tothehand: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby kalm » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:23 pm

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
No. 32 is enough. IIRC FCS is at about 117 teams with the departure of Liberty and CCU so that's about the same percentage of playoff teams as NFL or DI hoops. Some matchups would garner more interest than others but both Mercer and CCSU would benefit from playoff experience and perhaps be more competitive in the future as a result. It would also help with recruiting and fundraising further raising their profile. A more competitive and deeper subdivision is desired, no?

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. More is better. 32 is enough. Make up your damn mind. Wouldn't it benefit the 8th place team of the Pioneer as much as Mercer or CCSU? Why not just invite everyone so everyone can receive this great benefit? :tothehand: :tothehand: :tothehand: :tothehand: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:


I think 32 is the right number which is more than 24, 20, or 16. But only 32 deserve a participation trophy.
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby 89Hen » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:38 pm

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote:You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. More is better. 32 is enough. Make up your damn mind. Wouldn't it benefit the 8th place team of the Pioneer as much as Mercer or CCSU? Why not just invite everyone so everyone can receive this great benefit? :tothehand: :tothehand: :tothehand: :tothehand: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:


I think 32 is the right number which is more than 24, 20, or 16. But only 32 deserve a participation trophy.

At least we've determined that you believe there is a finite number. You just don't like other people's finite number and denigrate them with "I like football". Your opinion on the number is as valid an anyone's. I just wish you shared the sentiment.
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby kalm » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:44 pm

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
I think 32 is the right number which is more than 24, 20, or 16. But only 32 deserve a participation trophy.

At least we've determined that you believe there is a finite number. You just don't like other people's finite number and denigrate them with "I like football". Your opinion on the number is as valid an anyone's. I just wish you shared the sentiment.


Yes. I should know better than to denigrate the "everyone gets a trophy" crowd...on cs.com.

:lol:
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby 89Hen » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:22 am

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote:At least we've determined that you believe there is a finite number. You just don't like other people's finite number and denigrate them with "I like football". Your opinion on the number is as valid an anyone's. I just wish you shared the sentiment.


Yes. I should know better than to denigrate the "everyone gets a trophy" crowd...on cs.com.

:lol:

BDK is a crowd?
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby kalm » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:43 am

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
Yes. I should know better than to denigrate the "everyone gets a trophy" crowd...on cs.com.

:lol:

BDK is a crowd?


Pretty sure he's not the only one who's made the participation trophy/everyone gets a ribbon point.
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby BDKJMU » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:39 pm

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote:You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. More is better. 32 is enough. Make up your damn mind. Wouldn't it benefit the 8th place team of the Pioneer as much as Mercer or CCSU? Why not just invite everyone so everyone can receive this great benefit? :tothehand: :tothehand: :tothehand: :tothehand: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce: :dunce:


I think 32 is the right number which is more than 24, 20, or 16. But only 32 deserve a participation trophy.


I-AA 10 participating conferences/95 teams/24 team playoff (about 1/4)
Div II 16 conferences & 170+ teams/28 team playoff (about 1/6)
Div III 29 conferences, 250+ teams/32 team playoff (about 1/8)

Even if you count all 120+ I-AA teams, that still a ratio of about 1/5 making the playoffs, which is still greater than Div II & Div III.

32 would still be the current 5 rounds we have now. 2 biggest knock on that are:
-It means no one would get byes. And some top teams IMHOP should be rewarded with byes.
-NCAA would lose even more $$ on the playoffs.

Even if had 2 of the 3 decided to participate (become AQ conferences) out of the MEAC, SWAC & Ivy, (doubtful anytime soon) that would equal 12 AQ/12 at large, & the 24 team field we now have.

There's those of us who think 24 is too big, there's those of us like yourself who think 24 is too small. Bottom line is will be stuck at 24 for a LONG time..
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby 89Hen » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:30 am

BDKJMU wrote:Bottom line is will be stuck at 24 for a LONG time..

I disagree. 32 is unfortunately inevitable. All it would take is the IVY to give up their hypocritical stance and maybe the MEAC or SWAC to rejoin the fun.
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby 93henfan » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:46 am

How many teams ranked 17th or worse at the end of the regular season have ever won an FCS Championship?

If the answer is "none" then you know how big the playoff field should be.

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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby Gil Dobie » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:33 am

93henfan wrote:How many teams ranked 17th or worse at the end of the regular season have ever won an FCS Championship?

If the answer is "none" then you know how big the playoff field should be.


NDSU was an overtime, goal line play from winning it's 3rd playoff game in 2010. The Bison haven't earned less than 14 games since 2009.
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby 89Hen » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:39 am

93henfan wrote:How many teams ranked 17th or worse at the end of the regular season have ever won an FCS Championship?

If the answer is "none" then you know how big the playoff field should be.

I'm sure they were top 15, but I'd guess UMass in 1998 had to be one of the lowest ranked teams to win it all. They lost twice to UConn and once to the Hens that regular season.
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby Gil Dobie » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:12 pm

89Hen wrote:
93henfan wrote:How many teams ranked 17th or worse at the end of the regular season have ever won an FCS Championship?

If the answer is "none" then you know how big the playoff field should be.

I'm sure they were top 15, but I'd guess UMass in 1998 had to be one of the lowest ranked teams to win it all. They lost twice to UConn and once to the Hens that regular season.


Western Kentucky was #15 going into the playoffs, when they beat #1 McNeese St. UMass was #12.
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby 93henfan » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:14 pm

So, 16 sounds perfect. No worthy team would be denied. Thanks Gil!

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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby Gil Dobie » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:43 pm

93henfan wrote:So, 16 sounds perfect. No worthy team would be denied. Thanks Gil!


They do affect the playoffs. In 2010 NDSU was #25 and beat #6 Montana St and lost to #1 EWU in OT.
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby kalm » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:44 pm

March Madness should go back to 8.
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby 89Hen » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:50 pm

kalm wrote:March Madness should go back to 8.

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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby BDKJMU » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:39 pm

89Hen wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Bottom line is will be stuck at 24 for a LONG time..

I disagree. 32 is unfortunately inevitable. All it would take is the IVY to give up their hypocritical stance and maybe the MEAC or SWAC to rejoin the fun.


And all of that happening anytime soon (in the next decade) is remote..And even IF that all happened, and you had 13 AQ, then only need 13 At large. Think would go to the Div II model of 28, with 4 getting 1st round byes, rather than the Div III of 32...
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby JohnStOnge » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:37 pm

To me the starting point in establishing a number is making sure each FCS league that has a required minimum number of teams has an automatic bid. Then people can debate the number of at large bids. So for instance right now there are 10 participating eligible leagues. So the question is the number of at large bids one wishes to allow. That's pretty subjective. But I'd be OK with 10 so that there would be 20 total teams. At the same time I'm find with 24.

It's subjective but I'd look at the question of how many teams have at least some chance to win the national title if they get in. Years ago I looked at the lowest rated team polls wise to win a I-AA national title and I think it was a 12th ranked team. It was one of the 1990s Youngstown State teams.

This past season the 3rd place team from the MVC made the national championship game. Youngstown State again. In 1997, a painful memory for me, the 3rd place team from the Gateway (Youngstown State AGAIN) conference beat McNeese State by 1 point in the title game after McNeese State had beaten the second place team from the Gateway (Northern Iowa) during the regular season and beaten the 1st place team from the Gateway (Western Illinois) in the quarterfinals.

Anyway, the point is, 10 at large bids is not unreasonable.
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby 89Hen » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:04 pm

BDKJMU wrote:
89Hen wrote:I disagree. 32 is unfortunately inevitable. All it would take is the IVY to give up their hypocritical stance and maybe the MEAC or SWAC to rejoin the fun.


And all of that happening anytime soon (in the next decade) is remote..And even IF that all happened, and you had 13 AQ, then only need 13 At large. Think would go to the Div II model of 28, with 4 getting 1st round byes, rather than the Div III of 32...

Again, I disagree if you give me 10 years. I really think the Ivy could be in the post season in the next 5 years. As smart as they are, there's no way they can keep up this charade of not participating in football postseason while they participate in other sports. MEAC and SWAC... they're just a hot mess. There's no telling what they will do tomorrow.
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby BDKJMU » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:01 am

89Hen wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
And all of that happening anytime soon (in the next decade) is remote..And even IF that all happened, and you had 13 AQ, then only need 13 At large. Think would go to the Div II model of 28, with 4 getting 1st round byes, rather than the Div III of 32...

Again, I disagree if you give me 10 years. I really think the Ivy could be in the post season in the next 5 years. As smart as they are, there's no way they can keep up this charade of not participating in football postseason while they participate in other sports. MEAC and SWAC... they're just a hot mess. There's no telling what they will do tomorrow.

OK then we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think the IVY AND the MEAC AND the SWAC will all be in the playoffs by 2027..

As far as the Ivy, they've kept up this charade for 39 years. I don't see 5 more will being any different..Heck they haven't even gotten to the point yet of allowing their teams to play a full (11 game) schedule..

Again, IF that all happens sometime in the future, with 13 AQ you'll see the Div II 28 team format..
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby 89Hen » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:04 am

BDKJMU wrote:
89Hen wrote:Again, I disagree if you give me 10 years. I really think the Ivy could be in the post season in the next 5 years. As smart as they are, there's no way they can keep up this charade of not participating in football postseason while they participate in other sports. MEAC and SWAC... they're just a hot mess. There's no telling what they will do tomorrow.

OK then we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think the IVY AND the MEAC AND the SWAC will all be in the playoffs by 2027..

As far as the Ivy, they've kept up this charade for 39 years. I don't see 5 more will being any different..Heck they haven't even gotten to the point yet of allowing their teams to play a full (11 game) schedule..

Again, IF that all happens sometime in the future, with 13 AQ you'll see the Div II 28 team format..

I'm too lazy to scroll up, but I was talking about the Ivy and one of the other two.
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby BDKJMU » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:50 pm

89Hen wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:OK then we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think the IVY AND the MEAC AND the SWAC will all be in the playoffs by 2027..

As far as the Ivy, they've kept up this charade for 39 years. I don't see 5 more will being any different..Heck they haven't even gotten to the point yet of allowing their teams to play a full (11 game) schedule..

Again, IF that all happens sometime in the future, with 13 AQ you'll see the Div II 28 team format..

I'm too lazy to scroll up, but I was talking about the Ivy and one of the other two.


Which AGAIN would leave us at 12 AQ, still a 24 team field..
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Re: Permanent 12-Game Schedule Defeated

Postby JohnStOnge » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:54 pm

93henfan wrote:So, 16 sounds perfect. No worthy team would be denied. Thanks Gil!


I think that if you start off by saying all leagues that want to participate get an automatic bid worthy teams could be denied in some years. I'm guessing that if we'd have had 10 automatic bids and only six at large bids in 2016, for instance, Youngstown State would not have made it in. For sure there's a good chance they wouldn't have made it in. And I think they certainly proved they were worthy of being in. Didn't quite get it all in the end. But they had a heck of a run.
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