JMU AD: Move to FBS "very likely" in 18-24 months

[bluehenbillk]

Yeah, that has a lot to do with it. Is any administration prepared to absorb the political and financial hit they would take by admitting that they wasted tens of millions of dollars upgrading facilities & infrastructure for a project that ultimately was short-sighted and probably not well vetted? I think we know the answer to that.

Additionally, what becomes of all of the Title IX equivalencies once 22 FB scholarships are cut? What sort of image hit does a school take & what legal action is taken for cutting Olympic sport program and, in particular, women's sports?

I think you begin to see why schools haven't reversed decisions about FB reclassification. It has little to do with the FCS being the appropriate place for their programs.

Great points. It will take a major shake up like what happened in 78 to move some schools

Actually, I'm kind of embarassed even asking it but:

Division 1-AA was created in 1978, and over the next few years teams from D-II stepped up and some teams from 1-A moved down. Can someone recap what went on back then (I was 9 years old in the fall of '78) and how/why 1-AA was formed?

Thanks

[State Line Liquors]

It's not a meaningless championship. It represents that you were the best at the level you compete at. Don't allow others (who have no association with your school) define what something means. If ODU won an FCS title, I couldn't care less if "everyone" thinks Auburn is the only National Champion. I'd know what my alma mater did and I'd be proud of it. "Everyone" doesn't define what something means to me.

And I want ODU to compete at the highest level possible, but I also want us to compete at the highest level possible in an environment that's fair to our student athletes and actually represents what college athletics is about. In its current form, the FBS doesn't provide this, and the FCS is the highest level of competition that does. If the FBS changes and ODU is able to compete for National Championships at the I-A level, then that's where I want ODU.

BINGO.

[ODUalum11]

It's not a meaningless championship. It represents that you were the best at the level you compete at. Don't allow others (who have no association with your school) define what something means. If ODU won an FCS title, I couldn't care less if "everyone" thinks Auburn is the only National Champion. I'd know what my alma mater did and I'd be proud of it. "Everyone" doesn't define what something means to me.

And I want ODU to compete at the highest level possible, but I also want us to compete at the highest level possible in an environment that's fair to our student athletes and actually represents what college athletics is about. In its current form, the FBS doesn't provide this, and the FCS is the highest level of competition that does. If the FBS changes and ODU is able to compete for National Championships at the I-A level, then that's where I want ODU.

BINGO.

I don't think trip could have said it any better. It suprises me to hear some fans of some particular CAA schools (won't mention who) talk smack about FCS football when they don't even have football.

[henfan]

Question for the anti-FBS crowd:

Why is there always a line or a moratorium on moving up... and programs never move down? If FCS is so much better financially, competitively, etc. etc. ... why don't programs want to drop from the MAC to the MVFC?

Programs have indeed reclassified from a higher to lower FB subdivision. Plenty of them. While it hasn't happened in many years, it has happened. App State is one such example, as most App fans probably know.

[93henfan]

I mean, Delaware could only muster 3,000 tickets for a game less than 12 hours away in 2007.

We had over 5,000 in Frisco in January. We had (in my estimation) 7,000+ at Chatty in 2003. I was at both games.

If you'll recall, our attendance was hurt in 2007 because Appy won their semifinal game the night before we won ours and the Appy fans scooped up everything that wasn't reserved for school alotments before our game against SIU on Saturday evening even started. Then, in a stroke of brilliance, our prior AD only requested the 3,000 allotment. I was not a season ticket holder that year and thus was not able to get a ticket. A lot of people who would have made the trip weren't able to source tickets from non-scalpers.

Just wanted to get all the facts out there for those who weren't around back then. Delaware travels very well. 2007 was an anomaly.

[weberwildcat]

moving up now seems even more of a bad idea than ever. after the 16 team conferneces get made, everyone else will be demoted to fcs. so teams like jmu can play 1 season in fbs then go back.

[weberwildcat]

I mean, Delaware could only muster 3,000 tickets for a game less than 12 hours away in 2007.

We had over 5,000 in Frisco in January. We had (in my estimation) 7,000+ at Chatty in 2003. I was at both games.

If you'll recall, our attendance was hurt in 2007 because Appy won their semifinal game the night before we won ours and the Appy fans scooped up everything that wasn't reserved for school alotments before our game against SIU on Saturday evening even started. Then, in a stroke of brilliance, our prior AD only requested the 3,000 allotment. I was not a season ticket holder that year and thus was not able to get a ticket. A lot of people who would have made the trip weren't able to source tickets from non-scalpers.

Just wanted to get all the facts out there for those who weren't around back then. Delaware travels very well. 2007 was an anomaly.

we had over 8,000 at our home opener. that would impress a georgetown fan.

[weberwildcat]

The Big East should have plenty of football slots in about two years, right about the same time it loses it BCS bid.

how an a conf that doesnt exist have slots open, same with the wac!

[BDKJMU]

Akron - hosted Syracuse this year (I'm exempting Syracuse from your Big East clause since it looks like they're moving to the ACC) and hosted Indiana in 2010,

Bowling Green - hosted Minnesota in 2008

Buffalo - hosted Pittsburgh in 2008 (exempted from your Big East clause since it appears they're moving to the ACC)

Miami (OH) - hosted Northwestern, Syracuse, and Vanderbilt in past few years

Ohio University - hosted Pittsburgh

Ball State - hosted Indiana

Central Michigan - hosted Indiana

Toledo - hosted Arizona, Kansas, (Purdue and Iowa State in same year), Colorado

Western Michigan - hosted Indiana


So, looks like we've got some Pac-12, Big 10, SEC, (future) ACC, and Big XII representation.

You were saying?

Temple just hosted Penn State & does so about every third year or so. Also, they have a home & home scheduled with Notre Dame.

Well, JMU could host Penn State and Notre Dame too if had an NFL stadium

[BDKJMU]

Temple just hosted Penn State & does so about every third year or so. Also, they have a home & home scheduled with Notre Dame.

Even if they haven't won in 70 years....

But I didn't know they regularly hosted PSU.

I wouldn't exactly call it regular. Went back 12 seasons to 00' , Temple & PSU have played 7x, and Temple has hosted Penn State a grand total of twice- in 07' and last week.

[BDKJMU]

Question for the anti-FBS crowd:

Why is there always a line or a moratorium on moving up... and programs never move down? If FCS is so much better financially, competitively, etc. etc. ... why don't programs want to drop from the MAC to the MVFC? Marshall is usually pointed to as the poster-child for an FBS move-up failure. You think they they want to rejoin the SoCon anytime soon? Why is that?

If the NCAA enforced their attendance requirements (which I think they should), you would see some teams forced to move down.

[BDKJMU]

The gap between the BCS and the rest of the I-A is about to grow by a factor of 10 IMO. At least before the non-BCS teams could at least pretend that they could get a seat at the table at the end of the year. Once these super conferences get everyone in, there won't be ANY chance for an outsider to crash the party. Hard to believe, but non-BCS I-A will become even more irrelevant. They will be schedule filler. I'd rather stay in I-AA and play for a championship.

Bingo.

[Skjellyfetti]

If the NCAA enforced their attendance requirements (which I think they should), you would see some teams forced to move down.

Forced to move back is different than wanting to.

My question was why the schools themselves don't want to move down if FCS is so clearly better from a financial, competitive, etc. standpoint.

So far all we have for an answer is: Pride. That's it. Anyone got anything else?

[BDKJMU]

Is playing for a meaningless championship really more competitive than playing for a meaningless bowl game. Yeah, you can call yourself "national champions" but, everyone knows Auburn, not Eastern Washington were the national champions last year.

If you just want to win championships - move to Division II. ODU's facilities and athletic department would win a whole lot. Why bother with the increased challenge of competing in Division I?

It's not a meaningless championship. It represents that you were the best at the level you compete at. Don't allow others (who have no association with your school) define what something means. If ODU won an FCS title, I couldn't care less if "everyone" thinks Auburn is the only National Champion. I'd know what my alma mater did and I'd be proud of it. "Everyone" doesn't define what something means to me.

And I want ODU to compete at the highest level possible, but I also want us to compete at the highest level possible in an environment that's fair to our student athletes and actually represents what college athletics is about. In its current form, the FBS doesn't provide this, and the FCS is the highest level of competition that does. If the FBS changes and ODU is able to compete for National Championships at the I-A level, then that's where I want ODU.

Come on oooo, get with the times. Its all about the Benjamins!!! Just ask USC, Miami, Ohio State, UNC, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Boise, Oregon and every other program either on probation or under investigation. That's what JMU and ODU have to strive for!

[Skjellyfetti]

As a Tennessee fan, I'd like to state for the record that Tennessee is not on probation and is no longer under investigation.

http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2011/aug ... -bruce-pe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BDKJMU]

As a Tennessee fan, I'd like to state for the record that Tennessee is not on probation and is no longer under investigation.

http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2011/aug ... -bruce-pe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... FHeadlines" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BDKJMU]

It's not a meaningless championship. It represents that you were the best at the level you compete at. Don't allow others (who have no association with your school) define what something means. If ODU won an FCS title, I couldn't care less if "everyone" thinks Auburn is the only National Champion. I'd know what my alma mater did and I'd be proud of it. "Everyone" doesn't define what something means to me.

And I want ODU to compete at the highest level possible, but I also want us to compete at the highest level possible in an environment that's fair to our student athletes and actually represents what college athletics is about. In its current form, the FBS doesn't provide this, and the FCS is the highest level of competition that does. If the FBS changes and ODU is able to compete for National Championships at the I-A level, then that's where I want ODU.

Come on oooo, get with the times. Its all about the Benjamins!!! Just ask USC, Miami, Ohio State, UNC, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Boise, Oregon and every other program either on probation or under investigation. That's what JMU and ODU have to strive for!

Just kidding 0000, excellent post...

[kemajic]

13,027 attendance for Delaware - EWU

vs.

32,431 attendance for FIU - Toledo

That's more than twice the fans that find Detroit more appealing than Frisco.

Considering Frisco TX is about 24 hours away by car from both EWU and Delaware...

Or considering that Toledo is 1 HOUR from Detroit I'm not surprised their upper 20k fanbase made the short drive.

Driving one hour, turning around after the game and heading home is a heck of a lot cheaper than roundtrip flights from Philly/Spokane to Dallas. Plus the cost of hotels, food, flight tickets for each person.

So tell us how you can make an FCS NC game better. Or playoff games for that matter. They don't draw for a reason. Host team plays someone their fan base has never heard of. In the NC game, there is only a small set of fans from the two competing teams that even care. FCS playoffs and NC game are significant money hogs.

[UD1Hens]

Considering Frisco TX is about 24 hours away by car from both EWU and Delaware...

Or considering that Toledo is 1 HOUR from Detroit I'm not surprised their upper 20k fanbase made the short drive.

Driving one hour, turning around after the game and heading home is a heck of a lot cheaper than roundtrip flights from Philly/Spokane to Dallas. Plus the cost of hotels, food, flight tickets for each person.

So tell us how you can make an FCS NC game better. Or playoff games for that matter. They don't draw for a reason. Host team plays someone their fan base has never heard of. In the NC game, there is only a small set of fans from the two competing teams that even care. FCS playoffs and NC game are significant money hogs.

I can't argue with you there. Add to the fact that during the playoff run fans are scrambling to change weekend plans or add travel plans when their team wins it's hard to get a large crowd

[LastMinuteman]

Yes, they do. Most host a BCS school at least once every 2-3 years. Many do every year.

Not counting the Big East which will likely not be a BCS league in the very near future as 93Hen said.

What other BCS schools are travelling to MAC schools? Honest question - I've never heard of that.

To add to the other response, UMass is hosting Indiana and Vanderbilt in its first 2 years of FBS play. Not quite the same thing as hosting Ohio State and Florida, obviously, but they're straight 1-for-1s. Our last two non-conference 1-for-1s were with Holy Cross and Stony Brook.

[JoeyKahler]

I think the important thing to note here is that most fans of a school moving from FCS to FBS are going to support their schools regardless. I wouldn't be happy if App made the jump to play for an arbitrary bowl game and had no chance to play for a national title, but at the same time look at ECU's schedule year in and year out. They schedule some pretty sweet OOC games at home. Bottom line, having a chance to compete for a definitive NC game in the FCS or play "big" (bigger) schools and potentially play in the Sega Dreamcast Bowl in Bumfuck, Nowhere will be enjoyable. Sure, there might be some messy transition years after the hypothetical jump, but all in all my school will be playing football and I'll sure as hell attend whatever games I can.

Also, I don't understand hostility among other FCS schools to prospective schools that might make the jump. Is it a breach of integrity/tradition issue, or a misinterpretation on my end?

[danefan]

Not counting the Big East which will likely not be a BCS league in the very near future as 93Hen said.

What other BCS schools are travelling to MAC schools? Honest question - I've never heard of that.

To add to the other response, UMass is hosting Indiana and Vanderbilt in its first 2 years of FBS play. Not quite the same thing as hosting Ohio State and Florida, obviously, but they're straight 1-for-1s. Our last two non-conference 1-for-1s were with Holy Cross and Stony Brook.

Concrete example of a new school getting the benefit. No argument here. Indiana and Vandy at home are reason enough for me to be jealous of UMass.

[alvin kayak]

JMU moving to FBS???? YOU'VE GOT TO BE F**#!@ing kidding me?

First App State now James Madison? Do you really want to be the next Marshall or Western Kentucky? Get a freaking grip!!!

As for the 64 team thing -- yeah it's coming --- the holdover is the Big Ten which likes its 12 team arrangement. It also has issues with being Tier 1 in research. I'm not sure any schools in the region really fit, so they are going to have to make concessions if that's what they want. Not sure they have to --- already have a great TV network they own themselves.

[alvin kayak]

Come on oooo, get with the times. Its all about the Benjamins!!! Just ask USC, Miami, Ohio State, UNC, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Boise, Oregon and every other program either on probation or under investigation. That's what JMU and ODU have to strive for!

Correction: They are under investigation for being insufficiently greedy. Dagnabbit can't let them 18 year olds profit off their own efforts and injuries!

[alvin kayak]

Also, I don't understand hostility among other FCS schools to prospective schools that might make the jump. Is it a breach of integrity/tradition issue, or a misinterpretation on my end?

A lot of it is that we think those schools are delusional about their own capability to compete with...I don't know....LSU. A few years ago, ULM beat Alabama and nobody really cared (ULM is FBS).

Western Kentucky, Marshall, these are just a few of the once-great FCS names that you never associate with championship ever again. Then, WKU loses to Indiana State and just embarasses itself. Don't be WKU 2.0. Stay where you belong.