Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

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Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by kalm »

And another example of voters polling to the left...of not just Republicans but Democratic politicians as well.
The strong support for universal healthcare among both Democrats and Republicans is a stark contrast to that of Senate Democrats. As Grit Post reported last year in reference to Sanders’ previous Medicare for All bill, more Republican voters as a percentage supported Medicare for All than Senate Democrats. In October of 2018, there were 17 Democratic co-sponsors on the bill out of the 49 Democrats who were in the Senate at the time, meaning less than 35% of Senators affiliated with the Democratic Party supported a proposal that 84% of Democrats and a slim majority of Republicans supported.

Sanders just introduced his bill last week, meaning some of the Democrats who have yet to co-sponsor the legislation may end up doing so in the future. However, the pharmaceutical and for-profit health insurance industries that donate to federal campaigns stand to lose out on significant profits if Sanders’ Medicare for All plan comes to fruition, meaning their campaign spending in the 2020 cycle may be just as, if not more aggressive. According to the latest campaign finance data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics, these 33 Democrats have received a total of $36,805,381 from those industries throughout the course of their careers.
https://gritpost.com/pharma-insurance-3 ... TyA7u4x6LA
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by 93henfan »

Michael Moore had a great scene in Sicko where he showed Congress critters mingling and he put bubbles over their heads with the amount of money they had received from Big Pharma. The Democrats were completely bought and sold by the drug companies (as were the Republicans).
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by Chizzang »

93henfan wrote:Michael Moore had a great scene in Sicko where he showed Congress critters mingling and he put bubbles over their heads with the amount of money they had received from Big Pharma. The Democrats were completely bought and sold by the drug companies (as were the Republicans).
This ^ is why we can't have a proper healthcare system

1) They have absolutely perfect top notch healthcare - the best in the world (period)
2) and make piles of money doing nothing to address our present national situation
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by Pwns »

I laugh at the idea of this being a battle of the people against big pharma and insurance companies.


For every big-government dollar spent there's some corporation or business profiting from it. Eventually enough interests are going to realize that they can make freight tankers of money from a bureaucracy that costs more than the GDP of the vast majority of countries, and it'll happen.

Several years ago my grandma broke her wrist and inexplicably was kept in the hospital for 6 days. There wasn't any explanation, the hospital just wanted to milk as much from medicare as possible.

Of course, I guess of the government handing out blank checks to health care providers you could set up a government panel to decide who gets what surgeries and preventative medicine, but I was told by pro-abortion donks that they don't like the government getting in between doctors and patients. :nod:
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by Chizzang »

Pwns wrote:I laugh at the idea of this being a battle of the people against big pharma and insurance companies.


For every big-government dollar spent there's some corporation or business profiting from it. Eventually enough interests are going to realize that they can make freight tankers of money from a bureaucracy that costs more than the GDP of the vast majority of countries, and it'll happen.

Several years ago my grandma broke her wrist and inexplicably was kept in the hospital for 6 days. There wasn't any explanation, the hospital just wanted to milk as much from medicare as possible.

Of course, I guess of the government handing out blank checks to health care providers you could set up a government panel to decide who gets what surgeries and preventative medicine, but I was told by pro-abortion donks that they don't like the government getting in between doctors and patients. :nod:
Except ^ that's not quite how it works...
My sister is the Charge Nurse for these past 20 years and my father was a doctor for 45 years

The Hospitals are informed exactly how much they can submit on a specific injury claim
Just like Auto Dealer Shops are informed how much they get reimbursed for a warranty clutch replacement

Having polycystic ovarian surgery..? - well that has a fixed reimbursement dollar amount
as defined by the Insurance Healthcare provider

:nod:

When your grandma was admitted into ER they ran her insurance
up-pops her providers coverage plan and how much they get for her procedure

and that's how it works
if she had additional coverage policy for longer days in care and in-patient extended coverage
then she can stay as long as her coverage allows for on that type of claim

Now step back and ponder...
when the Hospital sees you have extremely limited coverage
for example bronze Obama care where they are only guaranteed 60% of coverage requirements
and they know they will have to get the remaining 40% from the patient

and they have an 80% unpaid history among all bronze obama care clients
and a Hospital is a business
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by BDKJMU »

Because the donk senators know while a sleight plurality support medicare fir all as a concept,
“The poll found that Americans initially support “Medicare-for-all,” 56 percent to 42 percent”

they know support plummets when given the reality of the situation:
“But if they were told that a government-run system could lead to delays in getting care or higher taxes, support plunged to 26 percent and 37 percent, respectively. Support fell to 32 percent if it would threaten the current Medicare program.”

Here’s the kicker. A plurality support medicare for all as a concept, and yet a majority are against the elimination of employer sponsored insurance. Which doesn’t make sense, because medicare for all would eliminate employer sponsored insurance, duh. Well, this explains it:
“Indeed, the poll found that many people are still unaware of some of the basic implications of a national health plan.

For example, most working-age people currently covered by an employer (55 percent) said they would be able to keep their current plan under a government-run system, while 37 percent correctly answered that they would not.“
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/poll- ... 2019-01-23

Good luck getting a majority of voters to support raising taxes, increasing wait times & health care rationing, the elimination of employer insurance, and the elimination of private insurance (Sander and Harris plans) to implement medicare for all. Only a tiny fraction would support all of that now to implement medicare for all.

To get it implemented it will take a a Donk POTUS with a supermajority donk Congress, like the donks briefly had when they passed Obamacare. Because just like Obamacare, no conks will vote for it. It will 100% donk owned. And donk underestimate the ability of the govt to turn it into one collossal fuck up that will make trying to implement Obamacare, or anything else the govt has ever undertaken, look like tiddly winks. A lot of donks aren’t going to want that politically suicidal albatross.
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote:Because the donk senators know while a sleight plurality support medicare fir all as a concept,
“The poll found that Americans initially support “Medicare-for-all,” 56 percent to 42 percent”

they know support plummets when given the reality of the situation:
“But if they were told that a government-run system could lead to delays in getting care or higher taxes, support plunged to 26 percent and 37 percent, respectively. Support fell to 32 percent if it would threaten the current Medicare program.”

Here’s the kicker. A plurality support medicare for all as a concept, and yet a majority are against the elimination of employer sponsored insurance. Which doesn’t make sense, because medicare for all would eliminate employer sponsored insurance, duh. Well, this explains it:
“Indeed, the poll found that many people are still unaware of some of the basic implications of a national health plan.

For example, most working-age people currently covered by an employer (55 percent) said they would be able to keep their current plan under a government-run system, while 37 percent correctly answered that they would not.“
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/poll- ... 2019-01-23

Good luck getting a majority of voters to support raising taxes, increasing wait times & health care rationing, the elimination of employer insurance, and the elimination of private insurance (Sander and Harris plans) to implement medicare for all. Only a tiny fraction would support all of that now to implement medicare for all.

To get it implemented it will take a a Donk POTUS with a supermajority donk Congress, like the donks briefly had when they passed Obamacare. Because just like Obamacare, no conks will vote for it. It will 100% donk owned. And donk underestimate the ability of the govt to turn it into one collossal fuck up that will make trying to implement Obamacare, or anything else the govt has ever undertaken, look like tiddly winks. A lot of donks aren’t going to want that politically suicidal albatross.
So they ran a poll that asked if Medicare for all sucked would you support it?

:lol:

There will be lumps and it will require adjustments but in the end, if done right, will lower costs beyond the tax increases and provide equal if not improved care.

Employers shouldn’t be saddled with healthcare costs. In the end, you crush small business and reward monopolies that
can afford it. You’re only in favor of this if you don’t mind lots of people dying from illness that are too expensive to treat or you’re some commie bastard who hates competition.

And there’s no reason that Cadillac plans can’t still exist for those with the means.
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by BDKJMU »

kalm wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:Because the donk senators know while a sleight plurality support medicare fir all as a concept,
“The poll found that Americans initially support “Medicare-for-all,” 56 percent to 42 percent”

they know support plummets when given the reality of the situation:
“But if they were told that a government-run system could lead to delays in getting care or higher taxes, support plunged to 26 percent and 37 percent, respectively. Support fell to 32 percent if it would threaten the current Medicare program.”

Here’s the kicker. A plurality support medicare for all as a concept, and yet a majority are against the elimination of employer sponsored insurance. Which doesn’t make sense, because medicare for all would eliminate employer sponsored insurance, duh. Well, this explains it:
“Indeed, the poll found that many people are still unaware of some of the basic implications of a national health plan.

For example, most working-age people currently covered by an employer (55 percent) said they would be able to keep their current plan under a government-run system, while 37 percent correctly answered that they would not.“
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/poll- ... 2019-01-23

Good luck getting a majority of voters to support raising taxes, increasing wait times & health care rationing, the elimination of employer insurance, and the elimination of private insurance (Sander and Harris plans) to implement medicare for all. Only a tiny fraction would support all of that now to implement medicare for all.

To get it implemented it will take a a Donk POTUS with a supermajority donk Congress, like the donks briefly had when they passed Obamacare. Because just like Obamacare, no conks will vote for it. It will 100% donk owned. And donk underestimate the ability of the govt to turn it into one collossal **** up that will make trying to implement Obamacare, or anything else the govt has ever undertaken, look like tiddly winks. A lot of donks aren’t going to want that politically suicidal albatross.
So they ran a poll that asked if Medicare for all sucked would you support it?

:lol:

There will be lumps and it will require adjustments but in the end, if done right, will lower costs beyond the tax increases and provide equal if not improved care.

Employers shouldn’t be saddled with healthcare costs. In the end, you crush small business and reward monopolies that
can afford it. You’re only in favor of this if you don’t mind lots of people dying from illness that are too expensive to treat or you’re some commie bastard who hates competition.

And there’s no reason that Cadillac plans can’t still exist for those with the means.
So you don’t believe it will lead to increased taxes and increased wait times and/or rationing? Yeah, that kind of means medicare for all sucks for the majority who have decent health care now. Those aren’t just “lumps”.
If done right will lower costs beyond the tax increases and provide equal if not improved care” :lol: You’re forgetting we’re talking about our federal govt here trying to implement something bigger than they’ve ever implemented before. . Lawl... :rofl:

And Sanders and Harris didn’t get the memo that private insurance could still exist..
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote:
kalm wrote:
So they ran a poll that asked if Medicare for all sucked would you support it?

:lol:

There will be lumps and it will require adjustments but in the end, if done right, will lower costs beyond the tax increases and provide equal if not improved care.

Employers shouldn’t be saddled with healthcare costs. In the end, you crush small business and reward monopolies that
can afford it. You’re only in favor of this if you don’t mind lots of people dying from illness that are too expensive to treat or you’re some commie bastard who hates competition.

And there’s no reason that Cadillac plans can’t still exist for those with the means.
So you don’t believe it will lead to increased taxes and increased wait times and/or rationing? Yeah, that kind of means medicare for all sucks for the majority who have decent health care now. Those aren’t just “lumps”.
If done right will lower costs beyond the tax increases and provide equal if not improved care” :lol: You’re forgetting we’re talking about our federal govt here trying to implement something bigger than they’ve ever implemented before. . Lawl... :rofl:

And Sanders and Harris didn’t get the memo that private insurance could still exist..
It takes at least three months to see a dermatologist in Spokane right now. It’s three weeks for a colonoscopy/endoscopy when you have an undiagnosed problem. Go to an urgent care or ER and unless your leg looks like Joe Theisman’s or you’re bleeding out your orifices you will sit for hours. Will it be worse? By how much?

Despite the “rationing”, outcomes and life expectancy in the US aren’t any better. France pays about half the cost for that.

“Decent” is a relative term.

We’ve been through this before.

:coffee:
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by houndawg »

Pwns wrote:I laugh at the idea of this being a battle of the people against big pharma and insurance companies.


For every big-government dollar spent there's some corporation or business profiting from it. Eventually enough interests are going to realize that they can make freight tankers of money from a bureaucracy that costs more than the GDP of the vast majority of countries, and it'll happen.

Several years ago my grandma broke her wrist and inexplicably was kept in the hospital for 6 days. There wasn't any explanation, the hospital just wanted to milk as much from medicare as possible.

Of course, I guess of the government handing out blank checks to health care providers you could set up a government panel to decide who gets what surgeries and preventative medicine, but I was told by pro-abortion donks that they don't like the government getting in between doctors and patients. :nod:

Its been over at least since Citizens United
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by css75 »

Having worked in a government medical program, anyone who supports single payer health care in any form is a total buffoon, moron or a power hungry bureaucrat.


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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
BDKJMU wrote: So you don’t believe it will lead to increased taxes and increased wait times and/or rationing? Yeah, that kind of means medicare for all sucks for the majority who have decent health care now. Those aren’t just “lumps”.
If done right will lower costs beyond the tax increases and provide equal if not improved care” :lol: You’re forgetting we’re talking about our federal govt here trying to implement something bigger than they’ve ever implemented before. . Lawl... :rofl:

And Sanders and Harris didn’t get the memo that private insurance could still exist..
It takes at least three months to see a dermatologist in Spokane right now. It’s three weeks for a colonoscopy/endoscopy when you have an undiagnosed problem. Go to an urgent care or ER and unless your leg looks like Joe Theisman’s or you’re bleeding out your orifices you will sit for hours. Will it be worse? By how much?

Despite the “rationing”, outcomes and life expectancy in the US aren’t any better. France pays about half the cost for that.

“Decent” is a relative term.

We’ve been through this before.

:coffee:
“If done right”. Sounds simple, doesn’t it? :rofl: :rofl: I challenge anyone to name ANYTHING the government does “right” except spend our money like drunken sailors.

Kind of the same argument for socialism. “If done right”... :rofl: :coffee:
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
It takes at least three months to see a dermatologist in Spokane right now. It’s three weeks for a colonoscopy/endoscopy when you have an undiagnosed problem. Go to an urgent care or ER and unless your leg looks like Joe Theisman’s or you’re bleeding out your orifices you will sit for hours. Will it be worse? By how much?

Despite the “rationing”, outcomes and life expectancy in the US aren’t any better. France pays about half the cost for that.

“Decent” is a relative term.

We’ve been through this before.

:coffee:
“If done right”. Sounds simple, doesn’t it? :rofl: :rofl: I challenge anyone to name ANYTHING the government does “right” except spend our money like drunken sailors.

Kind of the same argument for socialism. “If done right”... :rofl: :coffee:
Yeah because there’s no way in hell we accomplish what the 30 other nations equal to or ahead of us in healthcare outcomes have accomplished with around half the per capita spending. Nope...can’t possibly happen.

:coffee:
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by GannonFan »

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
“If done right”. Sounds simple, doesn’t it? :rofl: :rofl: I challenge anyone to name ANYTHING the government does “right” except spend our money like drunken sailors.

Kind of the same argument for socialism. “If done right”... :rofl: :coffee:
Yeah because there’s no way in hell we accomplish what the 30 other nations equal to or ahead of us in healthcare outcomes have accomplished with around half the per capita spending. Nope...can’t possibly happen.

:coffee:
Well, those other nations don't really have guns, nor a significant portion of their populations be minority race populations, nor drive as much as we do in this country. We're not really comparing apples to apples when it comes to outcomes. Could we do better? Absolutely. But a good chunk of it has nothing to do with how we deliver healthcare.
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by BDKJMU »

GannonFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Yeah because there’s no way in hell we accomplish what the 30 other nations equal to or ahead of us in healthcare outcomes have accomplished with around half the per capita spending. Nope...can’t possibly happen.

:coffee:
Well, those other nations don't really have guns, nor a significant portion of their populations be minority race populations, nor drive as much as we do in this country. We're not really comparing apples to apples when it comes to outcomes. Could we do better? Absolutely. But a good chunk of it has nothing to do with how we deliver healthcare.
Nor the majority of their population fat as fuck like we do..
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by houndawg »

kalm wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
“If done right”. Sounds simple, doesn’t it? :rofl: :rofl: I challenge anyone to name ANYTHING the government does “right” except spend our money like drunken sailors.

Kind of the same argument for socialism. “If done right”... :rofl: :coffee:
Yeah because there’s no way in hell we accomplish what the 30 other nations equal to or ahead of us in healthcare outcomes have accomplished with around half the per capita spending. Nope...can’t possibly happen.

:coffee:
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by Gil Dobie »

LIke mentioned previously, Big Pharma and Big Insurance would crumble with Medicare for all.
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by Ibanez »

Pwns wrote:I laugh at the idea of this being a battle of the people against big pharma and insurance companies.


For every big-government dollar spent there's some corporation or business profiting from it. Eventually enough interests are going to realize that they can make freight tankers of money from a bureaucracy that costs more than the GDP of the vast majority of countries, and it'll happen.

Several years ago my grandma broke her wrist and inexplicably was kept in the hospital for 6 days. There wasn't any explanation, the hospital just wanted to milk as much from medicare as possible.

Of course, I guess of the government handing out blank checks to health care providers you could set up a government panel to decide who gets what surgeries and preventative medicine, but I was told by pro-abortion donks that they don't like the government getting in between doctors and patients. :nod:
It's a bit more than that. As CLitz says, the hospital is a business but there are caps based of insurance and procedures. They also know that they have to get some beds emptied quicker than others. My sister is a nurse for a STICU and one of its administrators (it's a teaching hospital) she goes on an on all the time about how broken and f'd up hospitals are, but they are a business.



One thing I've been told all my life and have seen it in action is if you're going to the hospital and have the choice - go to a teach hospital. They'll work around the clock. They'll have students running every single test, panel,etc.. ASAP b/c they are in the business of teaching, research and finding cures. They are also in the business of making money so they can't have people taking up beds longer than necessary. :twocents:
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by kalm »

Gil Dobie wrote:LIke mentioned previously, Big Pharma and Big Insurance would crumble with Medicare for all.
Seems like Big Pharma is alive and kicking in the socialist block...

https://europe.businesschief.com/top10/ ... -in-Europe

Big Insurance would crumble...after they've extracted 100's of billions from our economy.

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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by Gil Dobie »

kalm wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:LIke mentioned previously, Big Pharma and Big Insurance would crumble with Medicare for all.
Seems like Big Pharma is alive and kicking in the socialist block...

https://europe.businesschief.com/top10/ ... -in-Europe

Big Insurance would crumble...after they've extracted 100's of billions from our economy.

(wiping tears away)
Now if we could convert the Big Insurance jobs to medicare jobs. Firms like Kaiser Permanente and United Health employee quite a few people.
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
So they ran a poll that asked if Medicare for all sucked would you support it?

:lol:

There will be lumps and it will require adjustments but in the end, if done right, will lower costs beyond the tax increases and provide equal if not improved care.

Employers shouldn’t be saddled with healthcare costs. In the end, you crush small business and reward monopolies that
can afford it. You’re only in favor of this if you don’t mind lots of people dying from illness that are too expensive to treat or you’re some commie bastard who hates competition.

And there’s no reason that Cadillac plans can’t still exist for those with the means.
There's those three words again. Very, very tricky. Deemed IMPOSSIBLE by the Federal Government.
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote:
Yeah because there’s no way in hell we accomplish what the 30 other nations equal to or ahead of us in healthcare outcomes have accomplished with around half the per capita spending. Nope...can’t possibly happen.

:coffee:
No, actually, there's not. And our government has proven it time and time again. :nod: :nod: :dunce:
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by AZGrizFan »

kalm wrote: Yeah because there’s no way in hell we accomplish what the 30 other nations equal to or ahead of us in healthcare outcomes have accomplished with around half the per capita spending. Nope...can’t possibly happen.

:coffee:
Oh and please define "healthcare outcomes", and what, exactly, that they've "accomplished" other than making this list.

Because again, I await the list of countries people are flocking to to have their life-saving and important medical procedures done. It sure as fuck ain't China, Norway, Finland or any of the other countries ahead of us on this "list".
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kalm
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by kalm »

AZGrizFan wrote:
kalm wrote:
So they ran a poll that asked if Medicare for all sucked would you support it?

:lol:

There will be lumps and it will require adjustments but in the end, if done right, will lower costs beyond the tax increases and provide equal if not improved care.

Employers shouldn’t be saddled with healthcare costs. In the end, you crush small business and reward monopolies that
can afford it. You’re only in favor of this if you don’t mind lots of people dying from illness that are too expensive to treat or you’re some commie bastard who hates competition.

And there’s no reason that Cadillac plans can’t still exist for those with the means.
There's those three words again. Very, very tricky. Deemed IMPOSSIBLE by the Federal Government.
Of course and much it is due to campaign finance. What’s your goal? If you let the lobbyists write the legislation, profits increase rather than cost savings. It’s why they exist.

IIRC, France spends around at least $1000 less per capita. What’s $1000 x 300 million?

I guess we’re just not as capable as the French... :ohno:
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Re: Why Dem Senators Hate Medicare for All

Post by BDKJMU »

Gil Dobie wrote:LIke mentioned previously, Big Pharma and Big Insurance would crumble with Medicare for all.
You’d also probably see the US no longer remain the world leader in medical innovation & new medicines.
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