Everything I was told to fear about being openly gay has become a reality in being openly conservative.

[Col Hogan]

The story of a gay man who came out of the closet as a conservative...

“Why would a person choose a life where they will be hated, judged, and rejected by society?” This was one of the first arguments I learned to defend myself against in arguments about my sexuality. In the late 1990s, it was perceived as a powerful call to the humanity of those who opposed gay rights under the notion that it was merely a lifestyle choice.

The idea was that if we could appeal to others’ sense of compassion for our social plight, perhaps they could understand the effects of their intolerance. I often fantasized about breaking through the walls of prejudice and somehow speaking to the heart of someone who did not yet realize I was just a person like them.


Today I find myself in that same frame of mind and under the same weight of frustration and skepticism, but it’s not because I’m gay. Today I look out across the turbulent sea of political discourse and ask, “Why would anyone choose to be a conservative?” To be a conservative means to openly invite others’ hatred into your life and to lose your humanity in the eyes of strangers who view you exclusively through stereotypes and prejudices.

http://thefederalist.com/2018/12/11/sti ... tigma-gay/

[CID1990]

It's true, but it doesn't really bother me that much. I'll be gone before the real fun starts

Conservatives at the State Dept are like hen's teeth and we jokingly refer to ourselves as the "new queers".... we're the "Q" in LGBTQ

One thing is for sure - if you want to talk about touchstone liberal topics at DoS nobody will mess with you. But if you criticize any of the progressive golden calves you'll get a VERY strident reaction. It's like everybody has a permission slip to call you a moron or a Nazi if you don't have the correct viewpoints

[houndawg]

It's true, but it doesn't really bother me that much. I'll be gone before the real fun starts

Conservatives at the State Dept are like hen's teeth and we jokingly refer to ourselves as the "new queers".... we're the "Q" in LGBTQ

One thing is for sure - if you want to talk about touchstone liberal topics at DoS nobody will mess with you. But if you criticize any of the progressive golden calves you'll get a VERY strident reaction. It's like everybody has a permission slip to call you a moron or a Nazi if you don't have the correct viewpoints

Is the chain of command aware of this situation? Nobody should have to work in that kind of pressure-cooker atmosphere.

[kalm]

At first I want to call a wahmbulance for the poor chap. Try being a liberal golf pro in nazi occupied Eastern Washington, attending Chamber of Commerce breakfasts, or having a reasoned conversation on the AGS poli board. He fails to recognize the historical and current belligerence of some of those on the right. But he's making some fair points and too much of this behavior from those on the left is illiberal.

However, the following is a bit narrow minded.

But just as I did not choose to be gay, I did not choose to be conservative. My political evolution happened over time as I came to realize that I valued truth and reason over narrative and emotion. I became an outspoken voice on the right because I felt I had no other choice than to speak up and shout the truth, despite overwhelming pressure from the media.

The left has become empowered to actively stamp out our voices. Not just that, but they feel fully justified in doing so. But just as I realized at 16 with my sexuality, I embrace today with my political worldview: I can no more deny what I know to be objective truth than I could deny my feelings about my own sexuality then.


Today I feel the same nervousness and obligation not to hide when I speak about gender or science to the left as I did deciding to go to the prom with a man. When I hesitate to speak honestly about a topic that could get me banned from Twitter, I think back to how it felt to risk public humiliation and judgment as a teenager speaking the truth about who I was inside. Intolerance has no political affiliation.

[GannonFan]

At first I want to call a wahmbulance for the poor chap. Try being a liberal golf pro in nazi occupied Eastern Washington,

Wait a minute, you're not post partisan, you're actually a liberal? Or are you just asking for a friend?

[kalm]

At first I want to call a wahmbulance for the poor chap. Try being a liberal golf pro in nazi occupied Eastern Washington,

Wait a minute, you're not post partisan, you're actually a liberal? Or are you just asking for a friend?

Clearly, when I'm speaking of post partisan I'm referring about an allegiance to party or side of the aisle rather than self identification as a philosophical liberal. Liberal to me simply means open minded and pro-freedom. In theory, every well reasoned and thinking person would prefer to be considered a liberal versus a conservative. As I've quoted often:

"A conservative is someone who stands athwart history, yelling stop!"

[GannonFan]

He fails to recognize the historical and current belligerence of some of those on the right. But he's making some fair points and too much of this behavior from those on the left is illiberal.

I don't think he's missing the point too much here. The Right as it's constructed today is a hodgepodge of different camps, but the GOP and its followers seem to be more opportunists right now than any ideological, tightknit group that demands some kind of thought purity to be part of that conglomerate. Win elections, lower taxes, defend the borders (kinda), and hate the Clintons seems to be the main focuses. When you look at the Left, however, and the hatred of all things Trump might be driving it, and you see much more behavior and much more passion that really mirrors what you saw from the brown shirts in the leadup to their rise to power. I don't ever see that ever coming to fruition here, American democracy is a much harder thing to take that kind of control over (just too messy and too for the moment), but from the suppression of speech, to the seemingly okay attitude towards violence against those who have different ideas, to the seemingly easy attitude to finding any ways to change government (Electoral College, court packing, etc) to ensure lasting political control that hasn't been found at the ballot box are all things that are far more similar to a fascist point of view than anything we've seen to date.

[GannonFan]

Liberal to me simply means open minded and pro-freedom. In theory, every well reasoned and thinking person would prefer to be considered a liberal versus a conservative. As I've quoted often:

"A conservative is someone who stands athwart history, yelling stop!"

Now you're just making stuff up. There's nothing in a definition of a liberal (or a conservative for that matter) that gives any sole ownership over being open minded or pro-freedom. Did you twitch when you typed that, like an inside reaction to being way over the top?

As for your quote, it's nice and catchy, but like most memes and one liners, it needs more nuance that you seem willing, or able, to give it. What if something that is labeled as "progress" is not a good thing. Shouldn't someone yell stop to avoid a mistake?

[kalm]

Liberal to me simply means open minded and pro-freedom. In theory, every well reasoned and thinking person would prefer to be considered a liberal versus a conservative. As I've quoted often:

"A conservative is someone who stands athwart history, yelling stop!"

Now you're just making stuff up. There's nothing in a definition of a liberal (or a conservative for that matter) that gives any sole ownership over being open minded or pro-freedom. Did you twitch when you typed that, like an inside reaction to being way over the top?

As for your quote, it's nice and catchy, but like most memes and one liners, it needs more nuance that you seem willing, or able, to give it. What if something that is labeled as "progress" is not a good thing. Shouldn't someone yell stop to avoid a mistake?

Yeah...Ok...

(hint: the freedom part is literally in the root of the word)

liberal adjective
lib·​er·​al | \ˈli-b(ə-)rəl \
Definition of liberal (Entry 1 of 2)
1a : of, relating to, or based on the liberal arts
liberal education
b archaic : of or befitting a man of free birth
2a : marked by generosity : OPENHANDED
a liberal giver
b : given or provided in a generous and openhanded way
a liberal meal
c : AMPLE, FULL
3 obsolete : lacking moral restraint : LICENTIOUS
4 : not literal or strict : LOOSE
a liberal translation
5 : BROAD-MINDED
especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
6a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism
b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism
especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives
liberal noun
lib·​er·​al | \ˈli-b(ə-)rəl \
Definition of liberal (Entry 2 of 2)
: a person who is liberal: such as
a : one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways
b capitalized : a member or supporter of a liberal political party (see LIBERAL entry 1 sense 6)
c : an advocate or adherent of liberalism especially in individual rights

Regarding the quote, it comes from one of the greatest conservative minds of all time and is spot on. I appreciate all viewpoints and consider all ideological theories. There's good and bad with both and yes, progress isn't always a positive.

To be honest, I'm surprised you didn't use the "progressive kalm wants to go back to the 50's" tactic this time. You appear to be slipping my friend.

[GannonFan]

Now you're just making stuff up. There's nothing in a definition of a liberal (or a conservative for that matter) that gives any sole ownership over being open minded or pro-freedom. Did you twitch when you typed that, like an inside reaction to being way over the top?

As for your quote, it's nice and catchy, but like most memes and one liners, it needs more nuance that you seem willing, or able, to give it. What if something that is labeled as "progress" is not a good thing. Shouldn't someone yell stop to avoid a mistake?

Yeah...Ok...

(hint: the freedom part is literally in the root of the word)

liberal adjective
lib·​er·​al | \ˈli-b(ə-)rəl \
Definition of liberal (Entry 1 of 2)
1a : of, relating to, or based on the liberal arts
liberal education
b archaic : of or befitting a man of free birth
2a : marked by generosity : OPENHANDED
a liberal giver
b : given or provided in a generous and openhanded way
a liberal meal
c : AMPLE, FULL
3 obsolete : lacking moral restraint : LICENTIOUS
4 : not literal or strict : LOOSE
a liberal translation
5 : BROAD-MINDED
especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
6a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism
b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism
especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives
liberal noun
lib·​er·​al | \ˈli-b(ə-)rəl \
Definition of liberal (Entry 2 of 2)
: a person who is liberal: such as
a : one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways
b capitalized : a member or supporter of a liberal political party (see LIBERAL entry 1 sense 6)
c : an advocate or adherent of liberalism especially in individual rights

Regarding the quote, it comes from one of the greatest conservative minds of all time and is spot on. I appreciate all viewpoints and consider all ideological theories. There's good and bad with both and yes, progress isn't always a positive.

To be honest, I'm surprised you didn't use the "progressive kalm wants to go back to the 50's" tactic this time. You appear to be slipping my friend.

Come on, klammie, talk about slipping, now you defend your definition of liberal with a dictionary definition that uses the self-described definition from a political party itself? Is there any political party that doesn't define itself in glowing, wonderful prose?

As for surprise, hey, I think we're all surprised you haven't been more vocal in your support for President Trump. He's adopted exactly the progressive economic policy you've endorsed on here for years (see, I used the term progressive because it's new and different - don't you dare yell stop or you'll be labeled a conservative and lose all your progressive creds). He's using the power of American markets to demand other countries to give us concessions and deference. It's like he's read your posts. Did you guys swap MAGA hats too?

[CAA Flagship]

Now you're just making stuff up. There's nothing in a definition of a liberal (or a conservative for that matter) that gives any sole ownership over being open minded or pro-freedom. Did you twitch when you typed that, like an inside reaction to being way over the top?

As for your quote, it's nice and catchy, but like most memes and one liners, it needs more nuance that you seem willing, or able, to give it. What if something that is labeled as "progress" is not a good thing. Shouldn't someone yell stop to avoid a mistake?

Yeah...Ok...

(hint: the freedom part is literally in the root of the word)

liberal adjective
lib·​er·​al | \ˈli-b(ə-)rəl \
Definition of liberal (Entry 1 of 2)
1a : of, relating to, or based on the liberal arts
liberal education
b archaic : of or befitting a man of free birth
2a : marked by generosity : OPENHANDED
a liberal giver
b : given or provided in a generous and openhanded way
a liberal meal
c : AMPLE, FULL
3 obsolete : lacking moral restraint : LICENTIOUS
4 : not literal or strict : LOOSE
a liberal translation
5 : BROAD-MINDED
especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
6a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism
b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism
especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives
liberal noun
lib·​er·​al | \ˈli-b(ə-)rəl \
Definition of liberal (Entry 2 of 2)
: a person who is liberal: such as
a : one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways
b capitalized : a member or supporter of a liberal political party (see LIBERAL entry 1 sense 6)
c : an advocate or adherent of liberalism especially in individual rights

Why can't it mean #3? Stop making us take a multiple choice exam to decipher your quotes.

[AZGrizFan]

American democracy is a much harder thing to take that kind of control over (just too messy and too for the moment), but from the suppression of speech, to the seemingly okay attitude towards violence against those who have different ideas, to the seemingly easy attitude to finding any ways to change government (Electoral College, court packing, etc) to ensure lasting political control that hasn't been found at the ballot box are all things that are far more similar to a fascist point of view than anything we've seen to date.

Bingo.

[93henfan]

Liberal and pro-freedom?

That's funny!

[kalm]

He fails to recognize the historical and current belligerence of some of those on the right. But he's making some fair points and too much of this behavior from those on the left is illiberal.

I don't think he's missing the point too much here. The Right as it's constructed today is a hodgepodge of different camps, but the GOP and its followers seem to be more opportunists right now than any ideological, tightknit group that demands some kind of thought purity to be part of that conglomerate. Win elections, lower taxes, defend the borders (kinda), and hate the Clintons seems to be the main focuses. When you look at the Left, however, and the hatred of all things Trump might be driving it, and you see much more behavior and much more passion that really mirrors what you saw from the brown shirts in the leadup to their rise to power. I don't ever see that ever coming to fruition here, American democracy is a much harder thing to take that kind of control over (just too messy and too for the moment), but from the suppression of speech, to the seemingly okay attitude towards violence against those who have different ideas, to the seemingly easy attitude to finding any ways to change government (Electoral College, court packing, etc) to ensure lasting political control that hasn't been found at the ballot box are all things that are far more similar to a fascist point of view than anything we've seen to date.

I must have struck a serious cord. I'm having trouble keeping up with your rambling.

1) How many liberals/leftists/progressives whatever the pejorative du jour is truly have "seemingly ok attitude towards violence against those who have different ideas? There must be dozens at least of antifa "brown shirts" ready to take shuit over. Both sides have their violent factions, but I'm pretty sure statistically, that right wing political violence still has a solid lead. IIRC they might be ahead of muslins as well.

2) Speaking of selective accusations, are not both sides active in manipulating elections including court packing, gerrymandering, etc?

3) You do realize that fascism is historically a right wing movement, right? But yes, the tendencies can show up on the left as well except for the nationalism.

[Chizzang]

So there is finally an article written by a gay guy
that conservatives will actually read and value his opinion...

well how about that

[kalm]

Yeah...Ok...

(hint: the freedom part is literally in the root of the word)

liberal adjective
lib·​er·​al | \ˈli-b(ə-)rəl \
Definition of liberal (Entry 1 of 2)
1a : of, relating to, or based on the liberal arts
liberal education
b archaic : of or befitting a man of free birth
2a : marked by generosity : OPENHANDED
a liberal giver
b : given or provided in a generous and openhanded way
a liberal meal
c : AMPLE, FULL
3 obsolete : lacking moral restraint : LICENTIOUS
4 : not literal or strict : LOOSE
a liberal translation
5 : BROAD-MINDED
especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
6a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism
b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism
especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives
liberal noun
lib·​er·​al | \ˈli-b(ə-)rəl \
Definition of liberal (Entry 2 of 2)
: a person who is liberal: such as
a : one who is open-minded or not strict in the observance of orthodox, traditional, or established forms or ways
b capitalized : a member or supporter of a liberal political party (see LIBERAL entry 1 sense 6)
c : an advocate or adherent of liberalism especially in individual rights

Regarding the quote, it comes from one of the greatest conservative minds of all time and is spot on. I appreciate all viewpoints and consider all ideological theories. There's good and bad with both and yes, progress isn't always a positive.

To be honest, I'm surprised you didn't use the "progressive kalm wants to go back to the 50's" tactic this time. You appear to be slipping my friend.

Come on, klammie, talk about slipping, now you defend your definition of liberal with a dictionary definition that uses the self-described definition from a political party itself? Is there any political party that doesn't define itself in glowing, wonderful prose?

As for surprise, hey, I think we're all surprised you haven't been more vocal in your support for President Trump. He's adopted exactly the progressive economic policy you've endorsed on here for years (see, I used the term progressive because it's new and different - don't you dare yell stop or you'll be labeled a conservative and lose all your progressive creds). He's using the power of American markets to demand other countries to give us concessions and deference. It's like he's read your posts. Did you guys swap MAGA hats too?

Yeah...dictionary people...what the hell do they know about definitions?

As discussed in other threads, I (along with noted liberals like CID1990 and Ivytalk) have taken a "we'll see" approach to Trump's trade policies.

[kalm]

Liberal and pro-freedom?

That's funny!

Google search neo-liberalism, Alan Greenspan, and MIlton Friedman, homey.

[93henfan]

Liberal and pro-freedom?

That's funny!

Google search neo-liberalism, Alan Greenspan, and MIlton Friedman, homey.

Google search Chile and Pinochet for an example of how well neo-liberalism works, homey.

[CAA Flagship]

Liberal and pro-freedom?

That's funny!

Google search neo-liberalism, Alan Greenspan, and MIlton Friedman, homey.

Homey

(of a place or surroundings) pleasantly comfortable and cozy.
synonyms: cozy, homelike, homely, comfortable, snug, welcoming, informal, relaxed, intimate, warm, pleasant, cheerful, friendly, congenial, hospitable; informalcomfy
"the house is homey yet elegant"
antonyms: uncomfortable, formal

unsophisticated; unpretentious.
"an idealized vision of traditional peasant life as simple and homey"
synonyms: unsophisticated, homely, unrefined, unpretentious, plain, simple, modest, domestic; More
everyday, ordinary
"life on the mountain was simple and homey"
antonyms: sophisticated

[kalm]

Google search neo-liberalism, Alan Greenspan, and MIlton Friedman, homey.

Homey

(of a place or surroundings) pleasantly comfortable and cozy.
synonyms: cozy, homelike, homely, comfortable, snug, welcoming, informal, relaxed, intimate, warm, pleasant, cheerful, friendly, congenial, hospitable; informalcomfy
"the house is homey yet elegant"
antonyms: uncomfortable, formal

unsophisticated; unpretentious.
"an idealized vision of traditional peasant life as simple and homey"
synonyms: unsophisticated, homely, unrefined, unpretentious, plain, simple, modest, domestic; More
everyday, ordinary
"life on the mountain was simple and homey"
antonyms: sophisticated

You son of a bitch!

[kalm]

Google search neo-liberalism, Alan Greenspan, and MIlton Friedman, homey.

Google search Chile and Pinochet for an example of how well neo-liberalism works, homey.

I didn't say I was a fan of neo-liberalism. In fact, I can't stand it. That would be closer to your leanings. Just showing that liberalism can equate with freedom.

[CAA Flagship]

Homey

(of a place or surroundings) pleasantly comfortable and cozy.
synonyms: cozy, homelike, homely, comfortable, snug, welcoming, informal, relaxed, intimate, warm, pleasant, cheerful, friendly, congenial, hospitable; informalcomfy
"the house is homey yet elegant"
antonyms: uncomfortable, formal

unsophisticated; unpretentious.
"an idealized vision of traditional peasant life as simple and homey"
synonyms: unsophisticated, homely, unrefined, unpretentious, plain, simple, modest, domestic; More
everyday, ordinary
"life on the mountain was simple and homey"
antonyms: sophisticated

You son of a bitch!

[93henfan]

Google search Chile and Pinochet for an example of how well neo-liberalism works, homey.

I didn't say I was a fan of neo-liberalism. In fact, I can't stand it. That would be closer to your leanings. Just showing that liberalism can equate with freedom.

I can go on with specific examples by country, but generally speaking, liberalism works like this:
1. Poor person is jealous of better off person.
2. Poor person concludes system is rigged. Rich people need to be regulated and their wealth redistributed. Everyone should be equal.
3. Many regulations are passed. Seems great for a couple of years. Poor people get stuff they didn't get before.
4. Producers stop producing and innovators stop innovating. They have no motive to, other than fear of their now heavy handed government, and that's not sufficient motive to do great things anymore.
5. Now 95% of the country is poor. The other 5% are government ruling party mrmbers.
6. The 95% lead a North Korean/Chinese/Soviet style existence.

Freedom.

You may think that next time it'll be different, but we already have millennials on this board who want to rip up the Bill of Rights.

[AZGrizFan]

Homey

(of a place or surroundings) pleasantly comfortable and cozy.
synonyms: cozy, homelike, homely, comfortable, snug, welcoming, informal, relaxed, intimate, warm, pleasant, cheerful, friendly, congenial, hospitable; informalcomfy
"the house is homey yet elegant"
antonyms: uncomfortable, formal

unsophisticated; unpretentious.
"an idealized vision of traditional peasant life as simple and homey"
synonyms: unsophisticated, homely, unrefined, unpretentious, plain, simple, modest, domestic; More
everyday, ordinary
"life on the mountain was simple and homey"
antonyms: sophisticated

You son of a bitch!

Be careful what you ask for.

[kalm]

I didn't say I was a fan of neo-liberalism. In fact, I can't stand it. That would be closer to your leanings. Just showing that liberalism can equate with freedom.

I can go on with specific examples by country, but generally speaking, liberalism works like this:
1. Poor person is jealous of better off person.
2. Poor person concludes system is rigged. Rich people need to be regulated and their wealth redistributed. Everyone should be equal.
3. Many regulations are passed. Seems great for a couple of years. Poor people get stuff they didn't get before.
4. Producers stop producing and innovators stop innovating. They have no motive to, other than fear of their now heavy handed government, and that's not sufficient motive to do great things anymore.
5. Now 95% of the country is poor. The other 5% are government ruling party mrmbers.
6. The 95% lead a North Korean/Chinese/Soviet style existence.

Freedom.

You may think that next time it'll be different, but we already have millennials on this board who want to rip up the Bill of Rights.

Adam Smith was a liberal and I could write a similar screed regarding right wing driven crony capitalism.

(But I do acknowledge your fears and some of them are even valid )