PA Catholic Pedo Scandal

[SeattleGriz]

Those guys don't like me but I miss 'em.

The one guy is Cid. And on that note, Cid is as big as D1B, I'm going to start calling him sir.

[CID1990]

D can bench press more than me

He's also more cultured.... that was near DuPont Circle in DC a few years back

he had traveled there for the purpose of visiting some specific art galleries, I believe


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[Chizzang]

Where's Joe Nothing Berger..?

I never said this was a "nothing burger" (nice use of a cliche, btw. About what I expect from you).

What I've said is that if you put under the microscope any other religious or social organization with a significant youth outreach, you would wind up with the same report.

As for me, I say let's investigate historical child abuse, but without the artificial limitation that we're only going to investigate the Catholic Church. Let's put it all on the table. That's the only way we are ever going to understand how and why this happened in all walks of our society.

The fixation of the Catholic Church -- as if it was the only institution engaged in cover-up of these crimes -- is fueled by anti-Catholicism fanned by personal injury lawyers who have a monetary interest in advancing the false narrative that this was a "Catholic thing."

These lawyers don't really care about revealing the truth to help all victims of child abuse. They want to advance the lie that only the Catholic Church did this in order to inflame passions and multiply damages recoveries.

Man, I just click my fingers and you come running these days

Joe, honestly
I haven't commented on this situation or really any of the Catholic church similar situations
because I don't know much about them - other than the headlines
I figure it's Catholics problem to figure out and deal with

If Catholics were running around blowing up cafe's and priests cutting peoples heads of for blasphemy
I guess I'd be more vocal but as it stands they're only poisoning their own pond
The Catholic church is more a danger to itself and it's children than anybody else



I'm not trying to downplay the tragedy
but it's entirely self inflicted and no danger to society other than it's own

[JoltinJoe]

D can bench press more than me

He's also more cultured.... that was near DuPont Circle in DC a few years back

he had traveled there for the purpose of visiting some specific art galleries, I believe


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He is cultured and sharp. His persona on the board was just his schtick. In person, as you know, he's easy-going and speaks in a quiet and genuinely warm way. He is obviously well read and a great conversationalist.

He came to New York about five years ago to see some of the museums and we hooked up for a ballgame and a dinner in a great Italian joint in Belmont. A great time. He has his opinions, but in person, he's much more laid about things. He also has a great sense of humor.

We've been texting over the PA report.

[JoltinJoe]

I'm not trying to downplay the tragedy
but it's entirely self inflicted and no danger to society other than it's own

The danger to society is that so many people, like you say, read the headlines and think "there's no danger to society other its own."

When the scandal in Boston broke, I read a lot about the happenings there and something struck me as being significant. When the documents were placed on-line by those plaintiffs' attorneys, there was a common fact in nearly all of the files: the parents of the victims almost always pleaded with the Archdiocese NOT to report the matter to law enforcement, The media reported that the Church higher-ups failed to report these crimes, but they almost never mentioned that the parents acquiesced and supported non-disclosure.

A friend of mine who spent over 25+ years as a state prosecutor and I were discussing this one day and he said that, at that time, that the parents would ask for the Church not to report the crime didn't surprise him in the least. He said something like: "Even today, when we speak to the parents of an abuse victim, they almost always are reluctant to go forward."

You see, back then, parents of a victimized child didn't realize how prevalent this crime is. They thought their kid was out there all alone and, in order to convict the dirt bag, their kid was going to have to take the stand publicly and testify as to what happened. (Paraphrasing) "It's bad enough your kid gets sexually assaulted -- now he has to take the stand and re-live it all over again?"

So it's readily understandable why parents are reluctant to go forward.

(Paraphrasing) "Every board of every organization knew this was going on, and they were happy when parents asked them to not go to the police. What did the church do differently? They actually kept records of all this stuff. No other organization made a record of this stuff. If the church had not made records, they'd be getting off scot-free like everyone else."

[dbackjon]

But Joe, the CHURCH DID KNOW how widespread it was, and kept it quiet. The church did not disclose to those parents - well, you only the 10th parent that has complained about Father Murphy. Don't try to place the blame back on the parents.

[kalm]

But Joe, the CHURCH DID KNOW how widespread it was, and kept it quiet. The church did not disclose to those parents - well, you only the 10th parent that has complained about Father Murphy. Don't try to place the blame back on the parents.

The Catholic Church! Our pedo problem is really not much worse than anyone elses’s!

[GannonFan]

But Joe, the CHURCH DID KNOW how widespread it was, and kept it quiet. The church did not disclose to those parents - well, you only the 10th parent that has complained about Father Murphy. Don't try to place the blame back on the parents.

The Catholic Church! Our pedo problem is really not much worse than anyone elses’s!

By numbers no, the Catholic Church scandal is no worse than really any other scandal involving victimization of children. There's hardly any organization or society that includes adults and children that has not seen a small number of adults sexually abuse children. It's sad and horrific no matter where it happens - other churches, schools, scouting, colleges, gymnastics, wherever. Where the Catholic Church hierarchy comes in for special blame is that they are supposed to represent a higher ideal - they shouldn't be just as bad as anyone else. And the hierarchy was more vigilant than other organizations at trying to hide the problem.

[kalm]

The Catholic Church! Our pedo problem is really not much worse than anyone elses’s!

By numbers no, the Catholic Church scandal is no worse than really any other scandal involving victimization of children. There's hardly any organization or society that includes adults and children that has not seen a small number of adults sexually abuse children. It's sad and horrific no matter where it happens - other churches, schools, scouting, colleges, gymnastics, wherever. Where the Catholic Church hierarchy comes in for special blame is that they are supposed to represent a higher ideal - they shouldn't be just as bad as anyone else. And the hierarchy was more vigilant than other organizations at trying to hide the problem.

I wish I would have thought of that.

[Chizzang]

Surrendering the moral high ground one pedophile at a time I guess...

[CID1990]

But Joe, the CHURCH DID KNOW how widespread it was, and kept it quiet. The church did not disclose to those parents - well, you only the 10th parent that has complained about Father Murphy. Don't try to place the blame back on the parents.

Hey Jon

Do you think the Catholic priesthood attracts pedophiles because they know they'll get special access to boys?


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[dbackjon]

But Joe, the CHURCH DID KNOW how widespread it was, and kept it quiet. The church did not disclose to those parents - well, you only the 10th parent that has complained about Father Murphy. Don't try to place the blame back on the parents.

Hey Jon

Do you think the Catholic priesthood attracts pedophiles because they know they'll get special access to boys?


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And know that they won't get turned in? Possibly.

[CID1990]

Hey Jon

Do you think the Catholic priesthood attracts pedophiles because they know they'll get special access to boys?


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And know that they won't get turned in? Possibly.

That's an interesting concept

I feel like I've heard it before somewhere


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[JohnStOnge]

Those guys don't like me but I miss 'em.

The one guy is Cid. And on that note, Cid is as big as D1B, I'm going to start calling him sir.

Dang. I assumed that was the Capn' and D1B. Anyway, even at 60, I'm 99% confident I can outrun all of them.

[Bisonfanatical]

Hey Jon

Do you think the Catholic priesthood attracts pedophiles because they know they'll get special access to boys?


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And know that they won't get turned in? Possibly.

This has been ongoing for many years, and millions have been awarded in court, to no avail.

Perhaps instead of moneyc awards, they should prosecute the priests who are accused of being a pedophile. .. and throw them in prison?

Idk

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[JoltinJoe]

This has been ongoing for many years, and millions have been awarded in court, to no avail.

What are you talking about?

First, every study to date concludes the historical rate of abuse by Catholic clergy is actually lower than the rate of sex abuse by the adult population in general.

Second, the present rate of abuse by Catholic clergy is nearly 0%. This is the result of scrutiny of the Church's history and reforms implemented by the Church to protect children, in response to that scrutiny.

That is why I say let the historical scrutiny, like the investigation by the PA Attorney General, be wide open and not limited to the Catholic Church. Place other organizations under the same scrutiny, as I said, you will get the same report. More importantly, though, other exposed organizations would need to implement the same reforms. This is why I say that the PA Attorney General's report, at this point, has done little to make children safer.

[Bisonfanatical]

This has been ongoing for many years, and millions have been awarded in court, to no avail.

What are you talking about?

First, every study to date concludes the historical rate of abuse by Catholic clergy is actually lower than the rate of sex abuse by the adult population in general.

Second, the present rate of abuse by Catholic clergy is nearly 0%. This is the result of scrutiny of the Church's history and reforms implemented by the Church to protect children, in response to that scrutiny.

That is why I say let the historical scrutiny, like the investigation by the PA Attorney General, be wide open and not limited to the Catholic Church. Place other organizations under the same scrutiny, as I said, you will get the same report. More importantly, though, other exposed organizations would need to implement the same reforms. This is why I say that the PA Attorney General's report, at this point, has done little to make children safer.

Well I stand corrected, imagine my chagrin, as I based my thoughts on what is flying around the news media at this time .... I feel better knowing that it is all imagination and the "church" has it under control and the abuse rate is actually around 0%.

No problem

Please note that the following is a question in hopes of an answer.

But, just for the sake of argument, if ... hypothetically speaking of course ... this abuse is actually happening ....?... would it be fair to suggest that the answer is not to pay off people for their suffering (?), but to try the priests in a courtroom and if found guilty, thrown into the general population of a prison?

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[JohnStOnge]

This has been ongoing for many years, and millions have been awarded in court, to no avail.

What are you talking about?

First, every study to date concludes the historical rate of abuse by Catholic clergy is actually lower than the rate of sex abuse by the adult population in general.

The Psychology Today article at https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... lic-church supports what you say in that regard except that it refers to the population of adult MALES in general.

The problem is that, time and again, we find that the management of the Catholic Church sought to sweep it under the rug.

I also wonder if the standard for Catholic Priests should be comparison to the population of adult males in general.

[JoltinJoe]

What are you talking about?

First, every study to date concludes the historical rate of abuse by Catholic clergy is actually lower than the rate of sex abuse by the adult population in general.

The Psychology Today article at https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... lic-church supports what you say in that regard except that it refers to the population of adult MALES in general.

The problem is that, time and again, we find that the management of the Catholic Church sought to sweep it under the rug.

I also wonder if the standard for Catholic Priests should be comparison to the population of adult males in general.

Yes, I should have said adult male population.

As for "sweeping it under the rug" -- since it is news to almost everyone that Catholic clergy are less likely to abuse children than other adult males, this means that other organizations have swept this under the rug too and, to date, managed to keep it there.

[Ibanez]

This has been ongoing for many years, and millions have been awarded in court, to no avail.

What are you talking about?

First, every study to date concludes the historical rate of abuse by Catholic clergy is actually lower than the rate of sex abuse by the adult population in general.

Second, the present rate of abuse by Catholic clergy is nearly 0%. This is the result of scrutiny of the Church's history and reforms implemented by the Church to protect children, in response to that scrutiny.

That is why I say let the historical scrutiny, like the investigation by the PA Attorney General, be wide open and not limited to the Catholic Church. Place other organizations under the same scrutiny, as I said, you will get the same report. More importantly, though, other exposed organizations would need to implement the same reforms. This is why I say that the PA Attorney General's report, at this point, has done little to make children safer.

Honestly, it's statements like that which flame the fires.

"Catholic clergy abuse is lower by..." Why does that matter? The priests still conducted themselves inappropriately and took advantage of young children. Who cares if it's 1 or 100? Who cares if it's 10% or .1%? It happened and it should be dealt with honestly.

You really aren't comparing equal populations, are you? Were these studies of men who took oaths of celibacy and are in positions of trust and authority?

In the end it simply doesn't matter. Children were harmed. The Catholic Church needs to find the facts (I realize that there will be false reports), confess and repent. Even if it hurts. End of story. These men are supposed to be Moral Leaders...it's about time that act like it.


And possibly say 2 Hail Mary's and an Our Father.

[Ibanez]

The Psychology Today article at https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... lic-church supports what you say in that regard except that it refers to the population of adult MALES in general.

The problem is that, time and again, we find that the management of the Catholic Church sought to sweep it under the rug.

I also wonder if the standard for Catholic Priests should be comparison to the population of adult males in general.

Yes, I should have said adult male population.

As for "sweeping it under the rug" -- since it is news to almost everyone that Catholic clergy are less likely to abuse children than other adult males, this means that other organizations have swept this under the rug too and, to date, managed to keep it there.

That has zero bearing on the issue at hand. This is about the Catholic Church...not how they compare to some other organization. Minimizing the crime, to me, isn't an appropriate response. I get your position though, you're defending the church.

[∞∞∞]

As for "sweeping it under the rug" -- since it is news to almost everyone that Catholic clergy are less likely to abuse children than other adult males, this means that other organizations have swept this under the rug too and, to date, managed to keep it there.

This argument is just...*cringe*

[Ibanez]

What are you talking about?

First, every study to date concludes the historical rate of abuse by Catholic clergy is actually lower than the rate of sex abuse by the adult population in general.

The Psychology Today article at https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... lic-church supports what you say in that regard except that it refers to the population of adult MALES in general.

The problem is that, time and again, we find that the management of the Catholic Church sought to sweep it under the rug.

I also wonder if the standard for Catholic Priests should be comparison to the population of adult males in general.

So that was an interesting article. I'm not going to search for it but I'd like to see the psychology around WHY the sexual abuse occurred? What personality traits or environment(s) might connect the offending clergy. What's the profile? If they aren't pedophiles, and it isn't because they're gay or celibate then what?

[89Hen]

Homily yesterday was easily the most difficult I could imagine. The pastor at the church we went do did a pretty good job. No excuses, no sidestepping. He apologized on behalf of the church and said everyone had to be held accountable. He went on to say other things that you heathens wouldn't care for, so we'll leave it at that.

[Ibanez]

Homily yesterday was easily the most difficult I could imagine. The pastor at the church we went do did a pretty good job. No excuses, no sidestepping. He apologized on behalf of the church and said everyone had to be held accountable. He went on to say other things that you heathens wouldn't care for, so we'll leave it at that.

Was it more of that, "love thy neighbor" crap?