So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

[89Hen]

It's good to see the Conservatives endeavor to re-establish the moral high ground
after beating themselves unconscious with their own righteous bloody hammer for the past two years

[Silenoz]

So where are we at with the pro-choice goalposts now? Presumably all of these mothers are now in mortal danger if they give birth?

[89Hen]

So where are we at with the pro-choice goalposts now? Presumably all of these mothers are now in mortal danger if they give birth?

They don't need to be. Just suffer mental anguish.

In reality, the goalposts are moving to where they should be for the pro-choice side. If you're pro-choice you should be pro-choice to the finish line. Otherwise you're deciding the EXACT moment that's not OK to kill a child regardless of the development of that child.

[JoltinJoe]

meh...
American white babies are the only thing that the staunch anti-abortion crowd gets snarly about
Foreign babies and brown peoples babies don't seem to stir up much outrage

Lip service - but no outrage

So... in light of that
Exactly what morality are you referencing..?
If you mean "The lack of morality in the moral debate" then sure... I see that straight away

I thought you were talking about the moral debate over abortion - high horses and all that

I didn’t think you acknowledged it as a moral debate

You scoff at people who do, claiming that we shouldn’t “make criminals out of women”... that’s not a moral concern. .. or maybe it is just in relative terms

You tend to stay away from the killing side of the debate though... does that make it easier to call others out on what you see as faux moral outrage?

Maybe we should all just embrace our inner nihilists ... all of us who either don’t oppose abortion, or actively support it. I’ve been trying to point out the difference in those two, in a roundabout klammy way- and frankly I expected to rope in klam or Joe or maybe even Treep. I figured you’d see it, though

Shouldn’t we be able to kill infants right up to the moment of birth, or maybe even a little after?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry I'm not a buyer, CID.

I long ago said that, no matter how personally opposed one is to abortion, it is not possible in a free, pluralistic society, to force an unwilling mother to carry a child to term against her will. At best, we can announce when society believes that a pregnancy has progressed so far that it is no longer legal to abort it, thereby placing women on notice as to when they no longer have any right to decide on their own to have a permissive abortion. And then, those of us who oppose abortion can work within those laws to persuade mothers that is a better moral choice to have their baby. In fact, this strategy seems to be working, as the number of elective abortions continue to drop dramatically in the US, both when calculated in gross numbers and when calculated as a percentage of the number of annual pregnancies in the US. That's progress. We are winning this debate in the hearts of mothers because we have a better position. We are winning the hearts of younger people too. Younger people, when asked to self-identify, call themselves "pro-life" in numbers exceeding 60 percent, and it's because the pro-life message is the better message.

[Silenoz]

So where are we at with the pro-choice goalposts now? Presumably all of these mothers are now in mortal danger if they give birth?

They don't need to be. Just suffer mental anguish.

Isn't that what you call parenthood? Where there's no easy solutions. Other than killing your kid.

[Grizalltheway]

I thought you were talking about the moral debate over abortion - high horses and all that

I didn’t think you acknowledged it as a moral debate

You scoff at people who do, claiming that we shouldn’t “make criminals out of women”... that’s not a moral concern. .. or maybe it is just in relative terms

You tend to stay away from the killing side of the debate though... does that make it easier to call others out on what you see as faux moral outrage?

Maybe we should all just embrace our inner nihilists ... all of us who either don’t oppose abortion, or actively support it. I’ve been trying to point out the difference in those two, in a roundabout klammy way- and frankly I expected to rope in klam or Joe or maybe even Treep. I figured you’d see it, though

Shouldn’t we be able to kill infants right up to the moment of birth, or maybe even a little after?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry I'm not a buyer, CID.

I long ago said that, no matter how personally opposed one is to abortion, it is not possible in a free, pluralistic society, to force an unwilling mother to carry a child to term against her will. At best, we can announce when society believes that a pregnancy has progressed so far that it is no longer legal to abort it, thereby placing women on notice as to when they no longer have any right to decide on their own to have a permissive abortion. And then, those of us who oppose abortion can work within those laws to persuade mothers that is a better moral choice to have their baby. In fact, this strategy seems to be working, as the number of elective abortions continue to drop dramatically in the US, both when calculated in gross numbers and when calculated as a percentage of the number of annual pregnancies in the US. That's progress. We are winning this debate in the hearts of mothers because we have a better position. We are winning the hearts of younger people too. Younger people, when asked to self-identify, call themselves "pro-life" in numbers exceeding 60 percent, and it's because the pro-life message is the better message.

I don't think there are any libs here who would have a problem with that. Yay birth control.

[89Hen]

In fact, this strategy seems to be working, as the number of elective abortions continue to drop dramatically in the US, both when calculated in gross numbers and when calculated as a percentage of the number of annual pregnancies in the US.

I don't think there are any libs here who would have a problem with that. Yay birth control.

A lot of us pro-life folks are for birth control too. The difference is that pro-choice folks view abortion as a form of birth control.

[Pwns]

I don't think there are any libs here who would have a problem with that. Yay birth control.

A lot of us pro-life folks are for birth control too. The difference is that pro-choice folks view abortion as a form of birth control.

Yup, and I would argue most are even if there are some organizations that say birth control "promotes promiscuity".

It would be okay with me if we had vending machines at every convenience store that you could get any form of birth control from, even the kind you can only get with a prescription.

[CAA Flagship]

A lot of us pro-life folks are for birth control too. The difference is that pro-choice folks view abortion as a form of birth control.

Yup, and I would argue most are even if there are some organizations that say birth control "promotes promiscuity".

It would be okay with me if we had vending machines at every convenience store that you could get any form of birth control from, even the kind you can only get with a prescription.

[Grizalltheway]

Yup, and I would argue most are even if there are some organizations that say birth control "promotes promiscuity".

It would be okay with me if we had vending machines at every convenience store that you could get any form of birth control from, even the kind you can only get with a prescription.

RIGHT IN THE

[Chizzang]

I thought you were talking about the moral debate over abortion - high horses and all that

I didn’t think you acknowledged it as a moral debate

You scoff at people who do, claiming that we shouldn’t “make criminals out of women”... that’s not a moral concern. .. or maybe it is just in relative terms

You tend to stay away from the killing side of the debate though... does that make it easier to call others out on what you see as faux moral outrage?

Maybe we should all just embrace our inner nihilists ... all of us who either don’t oppose abortion, or actively support it. I’ve been trying to point out the difference in those two, in a roundabout klammy way- and frankly I expected to rope in klam or Joe or maybe even Treep. I figured you’d see it, though

Shouldn’t we be able to kill infants right up to the moment of birth, or maybe even a little after?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry I'm not a buyer, CID.

I long ago said that, no matter how personally opposed one is to abortion, it is not possible in a free, pluralistic society, to force an unwilling mother to carry a child to term against her will. At best, we can announce when society believes that a pregnancy has progressed so far that it is no longer legal to abort it, thereby placing women on notice as to when they no longer have any right to decide on their own to have a permissive abortion. And then, those of us who oppose abortion can work within those laws to persuade mothers that is a better moral choice to have their baby. In fact, this strategy seems to be working, as the number of elective abortions continue to drop dramatically in the US, both when calculated in gross numbers and when calculated as a percentage of the number of annual pregnancies in the US. That's progress. We are winning this debate in the hearts of mothers because we have a better position. We are winning the hearts of younger people too. Younger people, when asked to self-identify, call themselves "pro-life" in numbers exceeding 60 percent, and it's because the pro-life message is the better message.

Bingo... ^ Beautifully said Joe
It's much easier to "win" mind share when you take a reasonable position
and use love and respect (plus) education instead of fear, retribution and moral disinformation

[89Hen]

It's much easier to "win" mind share when you take a reasonable position
and use love and respect (plus) education instead of fear, retribution and moral disinformation

Glad nobody here is an example of how not to do it that way.

(except maybe Trip)

[JoltinJoe]

Sorry I'm not a buyer, CID.

I long ago said that, no matter how personally opposed one is to abortion, it is not possible in a free, pluralistic society, to force an unwilling mother to carry a child to term against her will. At best, we can announce when society believes that a pregnancy has progressed so far that it is no longer legal to abort it, thereby placing women on notice as to when they no longer have any right to decide on their own to have a permissive abortion. And then, those of us who oppose abortion can work within those laws to persuade mothers that is a better moral choice to have their baby. In fact, this strategy seems to be working, as the number of elective abortions continue to drop dramatically in the US, both when calculated in gross numbers and when calculated as a percentage of the number of annual pregnancies in the US. That's progress. We are winning this debate in the hearts of mothers because we have a better position. We are winning the hearts of younger people too. Younger people, when asked to self-identify, call themselves "pro-life" in numbers exceeding 60 percent, and it's because the pro-life message is the better message.

Bingo... ^ Beautifully said Joe
It's much easier to "win" mind share when you take a reasonable position
and use love and respect (plus) education instead of fear, retribution and moral disinformation

I know this guy who used to be one of the Planned Parenthood picketers with the sign, yelling at people as they entered. Rarely did anyone stop to listen to his group. Years ago, they decided that confrontational picketing was counter-productive. So now a group of them amass near the PP building and just stand there, saying prayers. They don't block anyone; they don't yell at anyone. He says the number of women who were entering the PP building but decide to approach them instead and ask, "Can you help me?" is staggering. It's like four or five a day; many more than they used to stop by yelling. When women see an apparently compassionate group, they think, "Maybe they will help me." When they see a bunch of people yelling, they don't want any part of them.

[Chizzang]

Bingo... ^ Beautifully said Joe
It's much easier to "win" mind share when you take a reasonable position
and use love and respect (plus) education instead of fear, retribution and moral disinformation

I know this guy who used to be one of the Planned Parenthood picketers with the sign, yelling at people as they entered. Rarely did anyone stop to listen to his group. Years ago, they decided that confrontational picketing was counter-productive. So now a group of them amass near the PP building and just stand there, saying prayers. They don't block anyone; they don't yell at anyone. He says the number of women who were entering the PP building but decide to approach them instead and ask, "Can you help me?" is staggering. It's like four or five a day; many more than they used to stop by yelling. When women see an apparently compassionate group, they think, "Maybe they will help me." When they see a bunch of people yelling, they don't want any part of them.

Joe,
Love is the answer
My mom used to say to me: "It doesn't really matter what the question is, love is the answer..."
And I know why my dad fell in love with this Beatnik hippie girl from Portland Oregon in the 60's

[CID1990]

I know this guy who used to be one of the Planned Parenthood picketers with the sign, yelling at people as they entered. Rarely did anyone stop to listen to his group. Years ago, they decided that confrontational picketing was counter-productive. So now a group of them amass near the PP building and just stand there, saying prayers. They don't block anyone; they don't yell at anyone. He says the number of women who were entering the PP building but decide to approach them instead and ask, "Can you help me?" is staggering. It's like four or five a day; many more than they used to stop by yelling. When women see an apparently compassionate group, they think, "Maybe they will help me." When they see a bunch of people yelling, they don't want any part of them.

Joe,
Love is the answer
My mom used to say to me: "It doesn't really matter what the question is, love is the answer..."
And I know why my dad fell in love with this Beatnik hippie girl from Portland Oregon in the 60's

We had some protesters from up around Goose Creek who used to come down and protest the abortion center on Hwy 61 in Charleston. I got pulled on a couple Saturday mornings to hang in the area and monitor - make sure people didn't get out of hand, etc.

The honcho for these protests was this really smug dickhead who liked to get in people's faces with a video camera if he thought he was being scrutinized. he would come up to my car with the camera and try to goad me into doing something that Channel 5 would like to air. I told him basically the same thing - that he wasn't changing any minds by pissing off the world, and that he should try a little sugar and less salt.

Oh and I also told him to get the fvck away from my patrol car before I beat him like the family mule

[Ibanez]

Joe,
Love is the answer
My mom used to say to me: "It doesn't really matter what the question is, love is the answer..."
And I know why my dad fell in love with this Beatnik hippie girl from Portland Oregon in the 60's

We had some protesters from up around Goose Creek who used to come down and protest the abortion center on Hwy 61 in Charleston. I got pulled on a couple Saturday mornings to hang in the area and monitor - make sure people didn't get out of hand, etc.

The honcho for these protests was this really smug dickhead who liked to get in people's faces with a video camera if he thought he was being scrutinized. he would come up to my car with the camera and try to goad me into doing something that Channel 5 would like to air. I told him basically the same thing - that he wasn't changing any minds by pissing off the world, and that he should try a little sugar and less salt.

Oh and I also told him to get the fvck away from my patrol car before I beat him like the family mule

I knew people that would protest that place. I understand their motivations but getting into the face of a woman making a difficult decision, deriding her and calling her a slut, whore, murderer, is awful. It's cruel. There's a clinic in S. Charlotte and every time I pass it, there are people with posters with fetuses and cut up babies. But they're across the street, without megaphones. They don't chant or scream at people going in.

Oh, and it's JIVE 5, not Channel 5.

[CID1990]

"More concerning than a possible increase in late-term abortions (now at fewer than 2 percent of all pregnancy terminations) is the clinical way we view and discuss human life. When we use language to disguise reality, we move ever-closer to the dehumanization of us all."

https://www.register-herald.com/opinion ... e1ed4.html

[Pwns]

We found a fetus that liberals care about...an anchor baby.

Fetuses are either property or they're life...they can't be different depending on whether or not they're wanted. That's idiotic.

[Skjellyfetti]

She was 6 months pregnant...

[BDKJMU]

She was 6 months pregnant...

Probably why she entered the US illegally.

[89Hen]

She was 6 months pregnant...

It's awful. But there is no way to know if her being held has anything to do with this.

[Skjellyfetti]

She was 6 months pregnant...

Probably why she entered the US illegally.

And?

[Skjellyfetti]

She was 6 months pregnant...

It's awful. But there is no way to know if her being held has anything to do with this.

Didn't say that

[89Hen]

It's awful. But there is no way to know if her being held has anything to do with this.

Didn't say that

Then obviously you weren't clear with your point. Can you please restate?

[AZGrizFan]

Ooooffff....read the comments/tweets! To coin a phrase, poor Alyssa is getting PWNED on her own tweet.