So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

[Ibanez]

If we consider someone dead when the heart stops beating...why not alive once it begins. Take the "is it human?" out of the equation. Is it alive?

That's a surprisingly thoughtful post, not kidding. More discussion like that would actually be helpful.

So you're OK to say no abortions after 22 days? Did you realize is was that early?

Thank you.

I am 100% on board with 22 days, I know it's early but my position has changed since 2014. That's why I have no issue with someone using Plan B. Once that heart beats, I see it as a living being (using the same logic that I stated above).

But, this isn't the United States of Ibanez and there are people that have different opinions. As an adult, I accept that and realize that I can't have everything I want.

[CAA Flagship]

Speaking of abortions, can we add Roos Field to the discussion?

[CAA Flagship]

That's a surprisingly thoughtful post, not kidding. More discussion like that would actually be helpful.

So you're OK to say no abortions after 22 days? Did you realize is was that early?

Thank you.

I am 100% on board with 22 days, I know it's early but my position has changed since 2014. That's why I have no issue with someone using Plan B. Once that heart beats, I see it as a living being (using the same logic that I stated above).

But, this isn't the United States of Ibanez and there are people that have different opinions. As an adult, I accept that and realize that I can't have everything I want.

...but if you try sometimes you might find you get what you need.

[Ibanez]

It's all interpretation. The document should be "living and breathing" as the world has changed since 1788. Society has changed.

So what if society has changed. The articles & 1st 10 amendments haven't changed one iota. There's nothing living/breathing about them.

Yes society has changed. There's a process for dealing with that. The amendment process. There's now 28 of them.

And there's the interpretation of those amendments. There's the overruling of court cases that were unjust. Or...were you cool with Plessy v Ferguson?

[Silenoz]

That's a surprisingly thoughtful post, not kidding. More discussion like that would actually be helpful.

So you're OK to say no abortions after 22 days? Did you realize is was that early?

Thank you.

I am 100% on board with 22 days, I know it's early but my position has changed since 2014. That's why I have no issue with someone using Plan B. Once that heart beats, I see it as a living being (using the same logic that I stated above).

But, this isn't the United States of Ibanez and there are people that have different opinions. As an adult, I accept that and realize that I can't have everything I want.

Right, but a "middle ground" of 22 days is still significant progress as far as I'm concerned.

I mean, if you can even call that the middle right now...

[89Hen]

And there you go skipping ahead again. You just can't help yourself. What next, cases of incest?

Skipping ahead of what? I’ve answered every single question you’ve asked.

You're trying to nullify the notion of a baby's rights because of an after effect of having them born.

[89Hen]

Thank you.

I am 100% on board with 22 days, I know it's early but my position has changed since 2014. That's why I have no issue with someone using Plan B. Once that heart beats, I see it as a living being (using the same logic that I stated above).

But, this isn't the United States of Ibanez and there are people that have different opinions. As an adult, I accept that and realize that I can't have everything I want.

Right, but a "middle ground" of 22 days is still significant progress as far as I'm concerned.

[Pwns]

And there you go skipping ahead again. You just can't help yourself. What next, cases of incest?

Skipping ahead of what? I’ve answered every single question you’ve asked.

You guys are doing a good job of proving the point I made in the OP.

Everything 89 says makes sense if you agree with his premise of what human life is.

It's like physicists trying to argue if the universe will rip everything in existence apart from expanding too fast when they don't even agree on what the properties of space has and don't agree on interpretations of quantum mechanics.

[93henfan]

Skipping ahead of what? I’ve answered every single question you’ve asked.

You're trying to nullify the notion of a baby's rights because of an after effect of having them born.

I’ve made it clear that in my opinion neither the fertilized egg nor the mother has any absolute rights. All cIrcumstances should be taken into consideration first before any decisions are made.

We’ve already covered this.

[kalm]

Speaking of abortions, can we add Roos Field to the discussion?

I don't get it....

I've seen that glorious masterpiece of football legend 1167 times and IT KEEPS GETTING BETTER EVERY TIME I SEE IT!

Spoiler: show

[Ibanez]

Thank you.

I am 100% on board with 22 days, I know it's early but my position has changed since 2014. That's why I have no issue with someone using Plan B. Once that heart beats, I see it as a living being (using the same logic that I stated above).

But, this isn't the United States of Ibanez and there are people that have different opinions. As an adult, I accept that and realize that I can't have everything I want.

Right, but a "middle ground" of 22 days is still significant progress as far as I'm concerned.

I mean, if you can even call that the middle right now...

Progress...

[GannonFan]

Speaking of abortions, can we add Roos Field to the discussion?

*abomination, not abortion.

[93henfan]

Spoiler: show

That’s one of the best scoreboards I’ve ever seen in FCS.







Because it blocks the view of the field when I fly over.

[89Hen]

You're trying to nullify the notion of a baby's rights because of an after effect of having them born.

I’ve made it clear that in my opinion neither the fertilized egg nor the mother has any absolute rights. All cIrcumstances should be taken into consideration first before any decisions are made.

We’ve already covered this.

Circumstances of whether that person will be a valued member of society later?? That's what you posted: sufferering, abandoned, unwanted, and abused humans. So a woman just saying she doesn't want the baby is grounds for termination.

[93henfan]

I’ve made it clear that in my opinion neither the fertilized egg nor the mother has any absolute rights. All cIrcumstances should be taken into consideration first before any decisions are made.

We’ve already covered this.

Circumstances of whether that person will be a valued member of society later?? That's what you posted: sufferering, abandoned, unwanted, and abused humans. So a woman just saying she doesn't want the baby is grounds for termination.

You are trying to oversimplify a very complicated discussion. That’s the leverage you continually try to use to “win” the unwinnable.

[GannonFan]

Not from my viewpoint. I think one of the biggest hypocrisies of the anti-abortion/pro-life crowd is that often their caring stops at childbirth. They do a great job of protesting Planned Parenthood and getting in the way of abortions from being available and accessible, but that interest drops off precipitously once the baby is born. Sure, there are some places that aim to help struggling mothers who carried to term to cope with being mothers, often single mothers, but not nearly enough. And that problem will just multiply exponentially when science progresses to full viability outside of the womb and we have more and more children, a large percentage of which will be unwanted and potentially wards of the state. Putting up crosses to symbolize children lost to abortion is one thing - putting in time and money and effort to help with these kids who will now be born rather than aborted is a whole other level of commitment. I'm not encouraged that we'll have it if it ever gets to that point.

You're too smart to fall for this pro-choice talking point that was mentioned in the alpha post of this thread. Do you have any evidence of this?

I see it with my own eyes. I've been a Catholic for every moment of the 45 years I've been on this planet and without a doubt there is a mountain's worth of effort by the Church and by members of it (laypeople and other) to prevent abortions and a paltry amount of specific services to help a mother not only through the rest of her pregnancy, if she carries full term, but also through the raising of that child. Show me more on the other side of the coin and I would feel better about the future when science advances and that collection of cells that is the first stage of human life can live outside the womb and we don't even need to consider abortion any longer.

Oh, and I'm all for contraception as well. Heck, the Church's own teaching on family planning (not the rythymn method, the other method with the tracking of waking temperature, among other things) is actually a tool that works and is science based. If you follow it, you can get pregnant (if that's your goal) or your can avoid pregnancy (if that's your goal). So the Church already has a tool in place to avoid pregnancy, why not just apply it to all contraceptives. Let's be honest, God is supposedly all powerful and the creator of the universe - if it's his plan that you should become pregnant I don't see how that thin layer of latex is going to be like kryptonite to Him and would stop that plan.

[89Hen]

Especially the male forced birthers (who are the majority of them).

BTW, I had to circle back to this. Jon, do you think pro-life people hate women and that's what this is about? I've got shocking news for you, I'm for protecting even the female babies.

It's absolutely ridiculous to try to make this a sexist issue.

[Silenoz]

Especially the male forced birthers (who are the majority of them).

BTW, I had to circle back to this. Jon, do you think pro-life people hate women and that's what this is about? I've got shocking news for you, I'm for protecting even the female babies.

It's absolutely ridiculous to try to make this a sexist issue.

He'll get back to you after he reads up on the party's line here

[93henfan]

Let's be honest, God is supposedly all powerful and the creator of the universe - if it's his plan that you should become pregnant I don't see how that thin layer of latex is going to be like kryptonite to Him and would stop that plan.

This is why you always read a GF post to the end. Totally the opposite of a JSO post.

[89Hen]

I see it with my own eyes. I've been a Catholic for every moment of the 45 years I've been on this planet and without a doubt there is a mountain's worth of effort by the Church and by members of it (laypeople and other) to prevent abortions and a paltry amount of specific services to help a mother not only through the rest of her pregnancy, if she carries full term, but also through the raising of that child. Show me more on the other side of the coin and I would feel better about the future when science advances and that collection of cells that is the first stage of human life can live outside the womb and we don't even need to consider abortion any longer.

I used to work with this group near me...
http://mercyhealthclinic.org/

There are plenty of things like this around if you wanted to get involved GF.

[89Hen]

Let's be honest, God is supposedly all powerful and the creator of the universe - if it's his plan that you should become pregnant I don't see how that thin layer of latex is going to be like kryptonite to Him and would stop that plan.

This is why you always read a GF post to the end. Totally the opposite of a JSO post.

SHAME on me for pulling out of the post prematurely.

[GannonFan]

I see it with my own eyes. I've been a Catholic for every moment of the 45 years I've been on this planet and without a doubt there is a mountain's worth of effort by the Church and by members of it (laypeople and other) to prevent abortions and a paltry amount of specific services to help a mother not only through the rest of her pregnancy, if she carries full term, but also through the raising of that child. Show me more on the other side of the coin and I would feel better about the future when science advances and that collection of cells that is the first stage of human life can live outside the womb and we don't even need to consider abortion any longer.

I used to work with this group near me...
http://mercyhealthclinic.org/

There are plenty of things like this around if you wanted to get involved GF.

We have things like that here and we do get involved and support it. But the participation and effort in these things pale to the drive to get people on buses to go to the March for Life march every year. The KOC will put up statues of children in memory of lives lost to abortion but they aren't getting out in numbers to the "A Baby's Breath" clinics around the area to help out. I have to sit through any number of homilies talking about abortion but nary a one about the traumas of migrants and their children at the border. The Church, especially at the parish level, has much still to learn from Pope Francis.

[89Hen]

I used to work with this group near me...
http://mercyhealthclinic.org/

There are plenty of things like this around if you wanted to get involved GF.

We have things like that here and we do get involved and support it. But the participation and effort in these things pale to the drive to get people on buses to go to the March for Life march every year. The KOC will put up statues of children in memory of lives lost to abortion but they aren't getting out in numbers to the "A Baby's Breath" clinics around the area to help out. I have to sit through any number of homilies talking about abortion but nary a one about the traumas of migrants and their children at the border. The Church, especially at the parish level, has much still to learn from Pope Francis.

KOC around here is more a social club with cold, cheap draft beer and shuffleboard.

I think I've heard a homily on abortion one time in the last 5 years and I probably go to mass 40 times a year. Maybe you need to shop for a new church. We've actually moved around since my kids have gone to college and have a couple favorites. I have 9 parishes within 5 miles of my house and more than 30 within 10 miles (not kidding or exaggerating). The mafia is strong around me.

[kalm]

Spoiler: show

That’s one of the best scoreboards I’ve ever seen in FCS.







Because it blocks the view of the field when I fly over.

Fun fact (not really)

Kalm grew up in a house underneath the golf ball on a tee shaped water tower behind the smoke stack in the pic, a mile from the stadium. I still have vestigial memories of my dad in a black stocking cap with headset on, yelling at refs when he was coaching in the 70’s.

[GannonFan]

We have things like that here and we do get involved and support it. But the participation and effort in these things pale to the drive to get people on buses to go to the March for Life march every year. The KOC will put up statues of children in memory of lives lost to abortion but they aren't getting out in numbers to the "A Baby's Breath" clinics around the area to help out. I have to sit through any number of homilies talking about abortion but nary a one about the traumas of migrants and their children at the border. The Church, especially at the parish level, has much still to learn from Pope Francis.

KOC around here is more a social club with cold, cheap draft beer and shuffleboard.

I think I've heard a homily on abortion one time in the last 5 years and I probably go to mass 40 times a year. Maybe you need to shop for a new church. We've actually moved around since my kids have gone to college and have a couple favorites. I have 9 parishes within 5 miles of my house and more than 30 within 10 miles (not kidding or exaggerating). The mafia is strong around me.

Heck, we did church shop when we first moved to the suburbs - we left a church where the pastor was just brutal and abortion was a once a month thing. At the current church it's probably once or twice a year - the permanent deacon who did the homily last week said that we needed to get behind whomever Trump picked. I think it was the first time in my life that I heard the name of a President said in church other than maybe during the general intercessions. The monsignor who's the pastor at our church is getting on in years, need new blood. When we first got married, my wife was living downtown in Philly and we went to a Jesuit parish (still part of the archdioceses but certainly had a dotted line up the Jesuit hierarchy. When the kids are grown and moved out we'll find our way back to a parish like that.