The Democratic Party...

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Gil Dobie
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by Gil Dobie »

∞∞∞ wrote:I know conservatives jerk off to dollar bills, but the US isn't founded on capitalism or how well the stock market does. It's founded on the right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
Hillary and Obama didn't make any of those dollar bills because of politics. :lol: :rofl: :rofl:

We've lost a lot of liberty since 9/11.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Gil Dobie wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:I know conservatives jerk off to dollar bills, but the US isn't founded on capitalism or how well the stock market does. It's founded on the right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
Hillary and Obama didn't make any of those dollar bills because of politics. :lol: :rofl: :rofl:

We've lost a lot of liberty since 9/11.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by Gil Dobie »

∞∞∞ wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Hillary and Obama didn't make any of those dollar bills because of politics. :lol: :rofl: :rofl:

We've lost a lot of liberty since 9/11.
I can give you plenty of examples other than the obvious. We have the Dayton family in Minnesota, aka the Target empire.

It's denial by you that the liberals jerk-off to the dollar bill too.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

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∞∞∞ wrote:I know conservatives jerk off to dollar bills, but the US isn't founded on capitalism or how well the stock market does. It's founded on the right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

People and governments throughout history are not remembered for economies, unless it's particularly bad. They're remembered for how they treated people and major geopolitical milestones.

And all the stuff you listed is awful, except the unemployment numbers. And Obama had good unemployment numbers (except those were "bad paying jobs" which have suddenly become "good paying jobs." :roll:)

ps. NoKo denuking? :rofl:
"awful" is a matter of perspective and life experiences (neither of which you have much of). And capitalism and the U.S. democratic system are what enable life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...even when a president says "you didn't build that".
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Re: The Democratic Party...

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∞∞∞ wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Hillary and Obama didn't make any of those dollar bills because of politics. :lol: :rofl: :rofl:

We've lost a lot of liberty since 9/11.
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we only do that to call you on your blatant hypocrisy that, in your mind, Trump is the first president to ever do these things. :dunce: :dunce:
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by ∞∞∞ »

AZGrizFan wrote:"awful" is a matter of perspective and life experiences (neither of which you have much of). And capitalism and the U.S. democratic system are what enable life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...even when a president says "you didn't build that".
What we have now isn't capitalism; it's corporatism. The richest society on Earth should be able to provide basic housing, universal healthcare, and welfare to all its people. The richest society on Earth should be able to better spread the wealth to reflect the productiveness of its people. The fact that people prioritize saving a few bucks in taxes over helping fellow Americans, while simultaneously allowing the richest to fleece the country, shows how broken the system has become.

And no, capitalism didn't enable life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Those basic tenants come from the human condition - people who fight for those beliefs. Capitalism is simply born from it.

What we have now is born from greed.

ps. age means little-to-nothing when it comes to perspective and life experiences.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by CAA Flagship »

∞∞∞ wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:"awful" is a matter of perspective and life experiences (neither of which you have much of). And capitalism and the U.S. democratic system are what enable life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...even when a president says "you didn't build that".
What we have now isn't capitalism; it's corporatism. The richest society on Earth should be able to provide basic housing, universal healthcare, and welfare to all its people. The richest society on Earth should be able to better spread the wealth to reflect the productiveness of its people. The fact that people prioritize saving a few bucks in taxes over helping fellow Americans, while simultaneously allowing the richest to fleece the country, shows how broken the system has become.

And no, capitalism didn't enable life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Those basic tenants come from the human condition - people who fight for those beliefs. Capitalism is simply born from it.

What we have now is born from greed.

ps. age means little-to-nothing when it comes to perspective and life experiences.
Damn. :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
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Re: The Democratic Party...

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∞∞∞ wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:"awful" is a matter of perspective and life experiences (neither of which you have much of). And capitalism and the U.S. democratic system are what enable life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...even when a president says "you didn't build that".
What we have now isn't capitalism; it's corporatism. The richest society on Earth should be able to provide basic housing, universal healthcare, and welfare to all its people. The richest society on Earth should be able to better spread the wealth to reflect the productiveness of its people. The fact that people prioritize saving a few bucks in taxes over helping fellow Americans, while simultaneously allowing the richest to fleece the country, shows how broken the system has become.

And no, capitalism didn't enable life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Those basic tenants come from the human condition - people who fight for those beliefs. Capitalism is simply born from it.

What we have now is born from greed.

ps. age means little-to-nothing when it comes to perspective and life experiences.
OK, nostradumbass....whatever you say. You’re all of 24 and you’ve got it aaaaaalllll figured out, haven’t you?
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by ∞∞∞ »

There are better ways to do things. I have no interest in replacing capitalism with socialism, but government has no goal more important than the protection and betterment of its citizens.

Unfortunately we pay more for everything purely to maintain this ridiculous fantasy of rugged individualism. Take healthcare as an example - one of the best investments a society can make in itself. Our system is so inefficient that we pay taxes for insurance premiums and deductibles, and people still go bankrupt. We literally pay some of the highest public costs for healthcare in the entire developed world.

There's no reason to be anti-universal healthcare if you're a fiscal conservative. It's cheaper, both in taxes an private costs; it's better by all objective metrics; and it allows for more money to recirculate elsewhere.

But some Americans think providing free healthcare means stealing from folks to give to those damn greedy moochers. It's frankly a ridiculous mindset and it extends to other issues.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

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∞∞∞ wrote:There are better ways to do things. I have no interest in replacing capitalism with socialism, but government has no goal more important than the protection and betterment of its citizens.

Unfortunately we pay more for everything purely to maintain this ridiculous fantasy of rugged individualism. Take healthcare as an example - one of the best investments a society can make in itself. Our system is so inefficient that we pay taxes for insurance premiums and deductibles, and people still go bankrupt. We literally pay some of the highest public costs for healthcare in the entire developed world.

There's no reason to be anti-universal healthcare if you're a fiscal conservative. It's cheaper, both in taxes an private costs; it's better by all objective metrics; and it allows for more money to recirculate elsewhere.

But some Americans think providing free healthcare means stealing from folks to give to those damn greedy moochers. It's frankly a ridiculous mindset and it extends to other issues.
Government should have no goal more important than to let me keep my fucking money and leave me the fuck alone. Period.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by HI54UNI »

∞∞∞ wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:"awful" is a matter of perspective and life experiences (neither of which you have much of). And capitalism and the U.S. democratic system are what enable life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...even when a president says "you didn't build that".
What we have now isn't capitalism; it's corporatism. The richest society on Earth should be able to provide basic housing, universal healthcare, and welfare to all its people. The richest society on Earth should be able to better spread the wealth to reflect the productiveness of its people. The fact that people prioritize saving a few bucks in taxes over helping fellow Americans, while simultaneously allowing the richest to fleece the country, shows how broken the system has become.

And no, capitalism didn't enable life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Those basic tenants come from the human condition - people who fight for those beliefs. Capitalism is simply born from it.

What we have now is born from greed.

ps. age means little-to-nothing when it comes to perspective and life experiences.
I think most people are for helping out others and would like to see improvements in our system. The problem is anyone that wants to make changes to the broken system we have is labeled as being insensitive, greedy, racist, etc. Most of us are tired of writing the check for people that do nothing. Welfare should be temporary, not a way of life. And when you are on welfare and are able bodied you should have to work - sweep sidewalks, pick up trash, dust books at the library, whatever. I wouldn't even care if they don't work but they have to show up every day at a facility and sit there for 8 hours to collect the check just like the rest of us have to do.

But I guess I'm just a greedy asshole.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

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∞∞∞ wrote:I know conservatives jerk off to dollar bills, but the US isn't founded on capitalism or how well the stock market does. It's founded on the right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
Tell that to the abortionists.
People and governments throughout history are not remembered for economies, unless it's particularly bad. They're remembered for how they treated people and major geopolitical milestones.
Roaring 20's? Great Depression?
And all the stuff you listed is awful, except the unemployment numbers. And Obama had good unemployment numbers (except those were "bad paying jobs" which have suddenly become "good paying jobs." :roll:)
Don't you know those people working 2 jobs lowered the unemployment rate during the Obomba years?!?!
ps. NoKo denuking? :rofl:
When was the last time they shot a missile again?

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Re: The Democratic Party...

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∞∞∞ wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Hillary and Obama didn't make any of those dollar bills because of politics. :lol: :rofl: :rofl:

We've lost a lot of liberty since 9/11.
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Pretty sure there is a "but Bush" label under the "but Hillary" one. :nod: :lol:
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Re: The Democratic Party...

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∞∞∞ wrote:There are better ways to do things. I have no interest in replacing capitalism with socialism, but government has no goal more important than the protection and betterment of its citizens.

Unfortunately we pay more for everything purely to maintain this ridiculous fantasy of rugged individualism. Take healthcare as an example - one of the best investments a society can make in itself. Our system is so inefficient that we pay taxes for insurance premiums and deductibles, and people still go bankrupt. We literally pay some of the highest public costs for healthcare in the entire developed world.

There's no reason to be anti-universal healthcare if you're a fiscal conservative. It's cheaper, both in taxes an private costs; it's better by all objective metrics; and it allows for more money to recirculate elsewhere.

But some Americans think providing free healthcare means stealing from folks to give to those damn greedy moochers. It's frankly a ridiculous mindset and it extends to other issues.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by ∞∞∞ »

HI54UNI wrote:I think most people are for helping out others and would like to see improvements in our system. The problem is anyone that wants to make changes to the broken system we have is labeled as being insensitive, greedy, racist, etc. Most of us are tired of writing the check for people that do nothing. Welfare should be temporary, not a way of life. And when you are on welfare and are able bodied you should have to work - sweep sidewalks, pick up trash, dust books at the library, whatever. I wouldn't even care if they don't work but they have to show up every day at a facility and sit there for 8 hours to collect the check just like the rest of us have to do.

But I guess I'm just a greedy asshole.
Most able bodied adults on welfare do work, many times multiple jobs or full-time jobs.

The thing you're really asking people to do is live like paupers; they should work all the time but they shouldn't live. They must deny themselves all life experiences and work like an automaton.

It can't possibly be ever increasing rent and property monopolies? Or stagnant wages and wealth inequalities? Or that they're one emergency away from financial ruin? You point the finger at the individual.

This is the greedy version of capitalism which completely ignores the human element.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by BDKJMU »

∞∞∞ wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:"awful" is a matter of perspective and life experiences (neither of which you have much of). And capitalism and the U.S. democratic system are what enable life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...even when a president says "you didn't build that".
What we have now isn't capitalism; it's corporatism. The richest society on Earth should be able to provide basic housing, universal healthcare, and welfare to all its people. The richest society on Earth should be able to better spread the wealth to reflect the productiveness of its people. The fact that people prioritize saving a few bucks in taxes over helping fellow Americans, while simultaneously allowing the richest to fleece the country, shows how broken the system has become.

And no, capitalism didn't enable life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Those basic tenants come from the human condition - people who fight for those beliefs. Capitalism is simply born from it.

What we have now is born from greed.

ps. age means little-to-nothing when it comes to perspective and life experiences.
What we have now is the richest "poor" people on earth..
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Re: The Democratic Party...

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∞∞∞ wrote:
HI54UNI wrote:I think most people are for helping out others and would like to see improvements in our system. The problem is anyone that wants to make changes to the broken system we have is labeled as being insensitive, greedy, racist, etc. Most of us are tired of writing the check for people that do nothing. Welfare should be temporary, not a way of life. And when you are on welfare and are able bodied you should have to work - sweep sidewalks, pick up trash, dust books at the library, whatever. I wouldn't even care if they don't work but they have to show up every day at a facility and sit there for 8 hours to collect the check just like the rest of us have to do.

But I guess I'm just a greedy asshole.
Most able bodied adults on welfare do work, many times multiple jobs.

The thing you're really asking people to do is live like paupers; they should work all the time but they shouldn't live. They must deny themselves all life experiences and work like an automaton.

It can't possibly be ever increasing rent and property monopolies? Or stagnant wages and wealth inequalities? Or that they're one emergency away from financial ruin? You point the finger at the individual.

This is the greedy version of capitalism which completely ignores the human element.
You realize there are lots of people who live this way on their way up right? :?
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Re: The Democratic Party...

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BDKJMU wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote:There are better ways to do things. I have no interest in replacing capitalism with socialism, but government has no goal more important than the protection and betterment of its citizens.

Unfortunately we pay more for everything purely to maintain this ridiculous fantasy of rugged individualism. Take healthcare as an example - one of the best investments a society can make in itself. Our system is so inefficient that we pay taxes for insurance premiums and deductibles, and people still go bankrupt. We literally pay some of the highest public costs for healthcare in the entire developed world.

There's no reason to be anti-universal healthcare if you're a fiscal conservative. It's cheaper, both in taxes an private costs; it's better by all objective metrics; and it allows for more money to recirculate elsewhere.

But some Americans think providing free healthcare means stealing from folks to give to those damn greedy moochers. It's frankly a ridiculous mindset and it extends to other issues.
:dunce: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
What's so funny about $32 trillion over the first 10 years?

Oh right, never mind. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Democratic Party...

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∞∞∞ wrote:
HI54UNI wrote:I think most people are for helping out others and would like to see improvements in our system. The problem is anyone that wants to make changes to the broken system we have is labeled as being insensitive, greedy, racist, etc. Most of us are tired of writing the check for people that do nothing. Welfare should be temporary, not a way of life. And when you are on welfare and are able bodied you should have to work - sweep sidewalks, pick up trash, dust books at the library, whatever. I wouldn't even care if they don't work but they have to show up every day at a facility and sit there for 8 hours to collect the check just like the rest of us have to do.

But I guess I'm just a greedy asshole.
Most able bodied adults on welfare do work, many times multiple jobs or full-time jobs.

The thing you're really asking people to do is live like paupers; they should work all the time but they shouldn't live. They must deny themselves all life experiences and work like an automaton.

It can't possibly be ever increasing rent and property monopolies? Or stagnant wages and wealth inequalities? Or that they're one emergency away from financial ruin? You point the finger at the individual.

This is the greedy version of capitalism which completely ignores the human element.
Never have I seen someone so young spout so much bull crap without a shred of proof and yet stated as if its all absolute fact. Truly, its dizzying.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by ∞∞∞ »

SDHornet wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: Most able bodied adults on welfare do work, many times multiple jobs.

The thing you're really asking people to do is live like paupers; they should work all the time but they shouldn't live. They must deny themselves all life experiences and work like an automaton.

It can't possibly be ever increasing rent and property monopolies? Or stagnant wages and wealth inequalities? Or that they're one emergency away from financial ruin? You point the finger at the individual.

This is the greedy version of capitalism which completely ignores the human element.
You realize there are lots of people who live this way on their way up right? :?
I really don't think you understand the plight of poor Americans nowadays. I volunteer at homeless shelters every other Monday; people are working full-time to support themselves or their families, but are so underpaid that they can’t get by without relying on government assistance.

People who are work their way up a good job can deny themselves and the payoff is worth it. When you're working 40-60 hours and barely making ends meet, and then being asked to work some more for welfare...with little to no possibility of moving up...what's the point of denying all life experiences for that?
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Re: The Democratic Party...

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∞∞∞ wrote:
SDHornet wrote: You realize there are lots of people who live this way on their way up right? :?
I really don't think you understand the plight of poor Americans nowadays. I volunteer at homeless shelters every other Monday; people are working full-time to support themselves or their families, but are so underpaid that they can’t get by without relying on government assistance.

People who are work their way up a good job can deny themselves and the payoff is worth it. When you're working 40-60 hours and barely making ends meet, and then being asked to work some more for welfare...with little to no possibility of moving up...what's the point of denying all life experiences for that?
Then they are obviously doing something wrong...

...oh and this is a regular occurrence on any labor intensive farm during harvest season. Take a trip and ask them why or how they do it. :coffee:
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by HI54UNI »

∞∞∞ wrote:
HI54UNI wrote:I think most people are for helping out others and would like to see improvements in our system. The problem is anyone that wants to make changes to the broken system we have is labeled as being insensitive, greedy, racist, etc. Most of us are tired of writing the check for people that do nothing. Welfare should be temporary, not a way of life. And when you are on welfare and are able bodied you should have to work - sweep sidewalks, pick up trash, dust books at the library, whatever. I wouldn't even care if they don't work but they have to show up every day at a facility and sit there for 8 hours to collect the check just like the rest of us have to do.

But I guess I'm just a greedy asshole.
Most able bodied adults on welfare do work, many times multiple jobs or full-time jobs.

The thing you're really asking people to do is live like paupers; they should work all the time but they shouldn't live. They must deny themselves all life experiences and work like an automaton.

It can't possibly be ever increasing rent and property monopolies? Or stagnant wages and wealth inequalities? Or that they're one emergency away from financial ruin? You point the finger at the individual.

This is the greedy version of capitalism which completely ignores the human element.
If they work and get welfare I'm OK with them not doing anything additional. I've advocated that in some cases welfare should be expanded to provide more money for things like daycare so people can work. But there are a lot of people on welfare that do not work and milk the system.

Why is it my responsibility to make sure people have life experiences? Or why is that the government's responsibility?

How many people that are one emergency away from financial ruin have multiple cell phones, cable TV, pets, computers, nice vehicles, etc. but don't have a dime of savings?. I know some people can't afford to save anything but I'm supposed to feel sorry for the family of 4 pulling down $100K a year that has no savings?

Some people will never get ahead for various reasons - making dumb decisions, laziness/lack of effort, or just plain bad luck. Others succeed in spite of themselves. But most people can get ahead if they want to put in the work.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by ∞∞∞ »

AZGrizFan wrote:Never have I seen someone so young spout so much bull crap without a shred of proof and yet stated as if its all absolute fact. Truly, its dizzying.
I get it, you're greedy and don't give a shit about anyone else.

It's very much a characteristic of boomers...inherit a wealthy nation, pillage its wealth, cut benefits, bankrupt it, borrow from future generations, blame everyone else for the problems, deny reality, and then burn the whole thing down on the way out for good measure.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by SDHornet »

∞∞∞ wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:Never have I seen someone so young spout so much bull crap without a shred of proof and yet stated as if its all absolute fact. Truly, its dizzying.
I get it, you're greedy and don't give a shit about anyone else.

It's very much a characteristic of boomers...inherit a wealthy nation, pillage its wealth and continually cut benefits, bankrupt it, borrow from future generations to keep up your lifestyles, blame everyone else for the problems, and then for good measure burn the whole thing down on the way out.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

My dad is a boomer. He regularly worked 50+ hour weeks just to make ends meet. He was/is a mechanic, and when he would work his regular job during the week, he would do side work out of the garage (auto body work and painting cars)...all just so the roof stayed over our heads (family of 6, single income) and food on the table...and never once were we on any kind of gubmint assistance.

But let me guess, my dad should have not worked those extra hours "pillaging the wealth" to keep our family afloat, or just said "fuck it" and just started racking up credit card debt. :roll:

You're insufferable.
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Re: The Democratic Party...

Post by ∞∞∞ »

HI54UNI wrote:But most people can get ahead if they want to put in the work.
Perhaps in the America you grew up in, but this is becoming less true by the day. That's the problem. And it will continue being a problem until productiveness is actually compensated fairly.

Railing on the poor for being lazy, moochers, etc. doesn't address the root of the issue.
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